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View Poll Results: Your mainstream OS for 2019 is?
Windows 10 11 25.58%
Windows 8/8.1 0 0%
Windows 7 16 37.21%
Windows Vista 0 0%
Windows XP 7 16.28%
Windows 2000 or older MS OS 0 0%
Mac OS 3 6.98%
Some flavor of Linux/Unix (brag on your distro in a post) 6 13.95%
I dont use a PC anymore, I'm a phone zombie 0 0%
Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll

 
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Old 01-05-2019, 12:39 PM   #41
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Default Re: The 2019 Operating System Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Topcat View Post
I pull a fresh image anytime there's significant changes in files or config. This includes all my 'working media' for the bench system, my DVD image dump, and of course the other things the server does for network config...so if something catastrophic happens (hardware failure, malware, etc), restore image....and like it never happened. I multi-wrap my backup pickle as well. I pull a full backup using the S2K12 backup util, 2 times to 2 different ext drives. I then manually dump critical files 2 times to yet 2 more ext drives. One set of backup drives are stored locally in a fireproof safe, the other 2 are stored in a safe deposit box.
Once built, a machine tends to "stay built" (in that configuration) until retired -- or, repurposed. I rarely update applications on an existing machine but, rather, wait until the next hardware/system upgrade to move to a new set of apps on a new set of machines. The Oct-Dec portion of each year is set aside for "equipment shuffling".

For example, this most recent reshuffle had me move the functionality that had resided on the "Graphics" workstation over to the DTP workstation (which was upgraded, at the same time). The "Graphics" and "CAD" workstations then were upgraded to become the "EDA" and "CAD" workstations (EDA had previously resided on the CAD workstation).

I don't "backup" the portions of a machine that exist on the initial "build images" -- because they (in theory), don't change. So, it's only my "work" that needs to be backed up and I can do that as often as I want -- just by copying those files to another box, file server, archive, etc. So, there's never any "special" backup software involved (and a "restore" is just a copy BACK from the secondary medium).

[E.g., I can "backup" something I've done on a Solaris/SPARC workstation and "restore" it on a *BSD workstation (or a windows workstation, if I've been careful with my file naming)]

I use different sorts of "containers" to great advantage. E.g., instead of copying individual files to another medium, I'll make a tgz (or some other archive format) of the group and, thus, keep them "packaged together". For larger "collections", I create ISO images. And, lately, backup entire virtual machines just by copying a "single file".

Being able to catalog ALL of the files, regardless of where they reside and in which containers (e.g., I can find every copy of "2017taxes" even if its inside a ZIP/TGZ/ISO/etc. and has a different NAME!) means I don't need a backup to be a special type of "thing" (i.e., foo.bkp)

I don't bother with off-sites, anymore (save a few things that I, "as a person", would consider invaluable) as there's just too much "stuff". And, at this point in my life/career, there's not as much downside to that sort of potential "loss". Note that you also need to have backups of the HARDWARE in my business (cuz a device that I used to do a particular job may no longer be available for purchase). E.g., if I had to burn a new bipolar ROM image, will I continue to have:
  • the tools to create the image to put in the ROM
  • the software to "burn" that image
  • the equipment to make it happen
  • the blank bipolar ROMs to burn!

[This gets REALLY hard when some of the components you've used are 40+ years old! :< ]
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Old 01-05-2019, 09:57 PM   #42
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Default Re: The 2019 Operating System Thread

Hope this isn't inappropriate, but despite having a copy of 10, I haven't wanted to make the jump because of all this feedback about how bad it is, and 7 works, just fine for me. However, I'm curious: Am I going to be able to do a fresh install of 7 SP1 at this time? I was just about to refresh my system with a fresh install, but want to make sure it's safe since it seems the updates are out the window.
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Old 01-06-2019, 12:43 AM   #43
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Default Re: The 2019 Operating System Thread

Needs more multiple choice.
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Old 01-06-2019, 12:51 AM   #44
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Default Re: The 2019 Operating System Thread

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Hope this isn't inappropriate, but despite having a copy of 10, I haven't wanted to make the jump because of all this feedback about how bad it is, and 7 works, just fine for me. However, I'm curious: Am I going to be able to do a fresh install of 7 SP1 at this time? I was just about to refresh my system with a fresh install, but want to make sure it's safe since it seems the updates are out the window.
Do it. Just did myself (fresh 7 sp1 install) on my dad's laptop last weekend. Upgrading from 8.1
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Old 01-06-2019, 01:03 AM   #45
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I have images of each machine -- in a couple of stages during the build (afterOS, after drivers, after updates, after core apps, after first set of rarely updated apps, etc.) -- that I usually only need if I want to roll back to a "pre-app" state so I can choose another set of applications to install on the machine (without having to reinstall windows, drivers, patches and "core apps").

For this (exposed) machine, I pull the drive every 6-12 months and restore the initial image to a clean drive. Then, a few months later, mount the pulled drive on a sacrificial machine and download a current AV product to check the state of the pulled drive. This gives the AV product those few months to catch up to any exploits that MAY have caught the machine just prior to my pulling the drive.

So far, never any AV hits. But, we tend to be pretty conservative in where we "go" with the machine and keep a large condom pulled over the machine...

[One of my "bags of disks" -- "A" & "B" refer to the two copies of each disk]


Two backup HDDs for every system? Seriously?

You weren't kidding about swimming in HDDs... And here I am thinking I'm above par by having automatic weekly server backups (.tar and checksum) to a dedicated backup drive in the server not on the RAID controller). Not as far as topcat in having drives in safe deposit boxes (hell I don't even have a safe deposit box ), but 2 layers of redundancy (RAID on the server w/ a hotspare, and the weekly backups) seemed good enough to me. Then again, most of the stuff isn't super valuable (lots of OS install images, a few years of tax backups, my ripped music collection, and a handful of other things), so perhaps I'm in a lesser league.

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Old 01-06-2019, 12:57 PM   #46
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Two backup HDDs for every system? Seriously?
As I said somewhere else (?), when you treat disk space as "free", you do things very differently!

I can make a duplicate of a disk (dd if=/dev/from of=/dev/to bs=1024k) in very little time -- and, completely unattended!

By contrast, if I lose the contents of a single copy of that disk, I now have to reinstall windows, locate the drivers that were applicable to THAT machine and that OS, figure out what order to reinstall them, install the current updates... and then I could start work on reinstalling applications!

[This machine-specific process is documented on each machine's "image disk" so I only have to do the research once -- if I don't lose that information!]

Quote:
You weren't kidding about swimming in HDDs...
Yes. I easily have 100 "bare" drives floating around (and, that doesn't count non-rust media!) Each has a (physical) label so I can figure out what's on it (by issuing a query to my database). I will eventually get around to replacing the ad hoc labels with something cleaner -- like NUMBERS! -- so I can arrange them in an order that is easily searchable (presently, I have them in various boxes tucked in nooks and crannies, here, so its a bit of an easter egg hunt to find a particular disk label!)

Quote:
And here I am thinking I'm above par by having automatic weekly server backups (.tar and checksum) to a dedicated backup drive in the server not on the RAID controller). Not as far as topcat in having drives in safe deposit boxes (hell I don't even have a safe deposit box ), but 2 layers of redundancy (RAID on the server w/ a hotspare, and the weekly backups) seemed good enough to me. Then again, most of the stuff isn't super valuable (lots of OS install images, a few years of tax backups, my ripped music collection, and a handful of other things), so perhaps I'm in a lesser league.
The machine images aren't valuable in the sense that the data is not retrievable if they fail (e.g., the OS install discs are still here, the drivers are archived on DVD and in my disc archive, the updates are on DVD and archive, the apps, etc.).

Their value lies in the TIME they save me WHEN I want to repurpose a machine. In a matter of minutes (literally), I can have the machine back to a state where the drivers and (reasonably current) updates are installed and all I need to do is decide which apps to install.

Or, I can restore the image to a point where the "core apps/utilities" are also present (things like archivers, screen handlers, etc.) thereby eliminating THOSE steps (as I likely don't care too much about updating those basic utilities -- if they worked good enough before, then they're good enough now!).

For example, I have a pair of SFF boxes (everything here exists in pairs) that I use as "economical" workstations -- when I just need an X Windows server (to talk to another box) or maybe just want to type something up and.or print it.

In last year's upgrade cycle, I opted to migrate some more advanced functionality to those machines; one of my favorite DTP tools on one of the SFFs and an IDE (software development environment) that I was using heavily onto the other.

This upgrade cycle, I will pare them down to the "basic" functions I mentioned earlier. This will take me maybe an hour or two -- to have two machines READY TO GO with those core utilities present: I will just clear off any stuff that I need to save, then restore the image with the "core utilities" for each machine. No need to rebuild from scratch, patch, install and have to reconfigure everything!

To KNOW that I can do this (because I have the images AND backups of them) is well worth the cost of keeping a second copy of that image disk around (esp as it cost practically no time to create it!)

OTOH, NEXT update cycle year I will probably end up discarding the SFF machines and repurposing those image disks -- along with the disks that are in the SFFs! -- for something else.
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Old 01-06-2019, 01:13 PM   #47
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Default Re: The 2019 Operating System Thread

XP, at least until the OS has been blocked from the entire internet via a complete lack of compatible browsers. Also one Vista PC for the sake of it.
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Old 01-06-2019, 05:33 PM   #48
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XP, at least until the OS has been blocked from the entire internet via a complete lack of compatible browsers. Also one Vista PC for the sake of it.
This site views flawlessly from Firefox v 2.0.0.20 from NT4.....it will be a long long time before that's a factor internet-wide. Higher security sites, such as banks and the like may do some shenanigans like that, for obvious reasons....not to mention garbage sites like facefuck, twatter, etc just to force obsolescence and make them think they're dictating what/how their sheeple 'subjects' can/can't do.....but most of the internet greats that are privately owned and informative will still be viewable from such antiquities!
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Old 01-06-2019, 10:35 PM   #49
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Default Re: The 2019 Operating System Thread

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This site views flawlessly from Firefox v 2.0.0.20 from NT4.....it will be a long long time before that's a factor internet-wide. Higher security sites, such as banks and the like may do some shenanigans like that, for obvious reasons....not to mention garbage sites like facefuck, twatter, etc just to force obsolescence and make them think they're dictating what/how their sheeple 'subjects' can/can't do.....but most of the internet greats that are privately owned and informative will still be viewable from such antiquities!
Just as true today as it was in the AOHell days...
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Old 01-09-2019, 06:48 PM   #50
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Default Re: The 2019 Operating System Thread

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XP, at least until the OS has been blocked from the entire internet via a complete lack of compatible browsers.
My plan, exactly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heihachi_73 View Post
Also one Vista PC for the sake of it.
That's funny. Sounds like the practices some jobs do when hiring candidates just for the sake of diversity. Case in point, the last repair shop I worked at. Boss was looking for another technician. A good amount of people came by, but he ended up hiring some girl, simply for the sake of diversity in the team. Well, later on we learned that "girl" was actually a tranny... but ah well, that's still "diversity", isn't it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ratdude747 View Post
so perhaps I'm in a lesser league.
I wouldn't call it lesser league. Just different needs.
I personally couldn't care if half of my data went missing. There are really only a few things in there that are worth keeping.

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As I said somewhere else (?), when you treat disk space as "free", you do things very differently!
Yessir!

I remember back in the early 2000's when I was just getting a little older and getting into computers. Had a lot of trouble with HDD space, as I only had a 20 GB in my "gaming" PC in 2003. Of course, games weren't that big then. But being a teenager, this was also the time I started with my music collection. So naturally, I was always running out of space on that ol' 20 GB Maxtor.

As such, everything was kept structured and organized. No double copies of anything on the drive! Moreover, anything big that wasn't used much would get compressed into RAR or similar (if, of course, the file yielded itself well to compression). Anything that was big and not used often and couldn't be compressed was burned onto CDs... and since I didn't have a DVD writer but only a CD writer, I maxxed out the space in those CDs to the max. 20 MB free space on the CD? - No, I can't burn that CD yet! Gotta add more stuff. Software and game mods / files is really what made it onto most of those CDs. On the positive side, if anyone is looking for obscure and odd software from the mid-2000's, just ask - I might have it. All of those CDs I burned back then still work too. I was really paranoid back then about disc errors after burning a few coasters (which I later found out was due to crappy software and not the drive's fault), so I always burned on 2x or 4x. Slow? Sure. But it also sure made for top quality burns.

Quote:
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but most of the internet greats that are privately owned and informative will still be viewable from such antiquities!
I know, right! That's what I find quite amazing - the most useful websites always seem to be conservative with the looks, but are well-organized and run on literally anything.
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Old 01-09-2019, 07:12 PM   #51
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Default Re: The 2019 Operating System Thread

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Same as last year... Windows XP Pro SP2 + two specific patches.
And my main computer is still the same one too: Dell OptiPlex 170L (2.8 GHz P4, 1.25 GB RAM, 80 GB HDD). Been that way since 2013 now. Still boots just as if I had installed the OS yesterday. Only the "net" has gotten a bit slower on it.


That explains 1 of the 3 votes for XP. I wonder who the other fella is. I know I'm the 3rd.


Sounds like my near future when I can no longer use XP on the well to the extent I like. As it is, Firefox ESR still works with most websites, so I can continue to push my good ol' Pentium 4. When too many websites start being broken, that's probably the day I'd have to switch.


And this is not even a In Soviet Russia... joke!


Same here for my 7 boxes.
SP1 + my custom HOSTs file + a few settings/tweaks does a decent enough job of keeping those boxes secure enough. The ones that might get abused (like for example, the "media PC" that my dad uses for streaming TV from who knows what websites), I just keep a backup image of the HDD from the time of installation. Haven't had any need to use them, yet, though.
Windows XP PRO SP3 and ext. router/firewall and some common sense for me.
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Old 01-10-2019, 11:29 AM   #52
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This site views flawlessly from Firefox v 2.0.0.20 from NT4.....it will be a long long time before that's a factor internet-wide. Higher security sites, such as banks and the like may do some shenanigans like that, for obvious reasons....not to mention garbage sites like facefuck, twatter, etc just to force obsolescence and make them think they're dictating what/how their sheeple 'subjects' can/can't do.....but most of the internet greats that are privately owned and informative will still be viewable from such antiquities!
Yeah, I still have old Firefox 2 on my Windows 98 systems, and Firefox 12 on an XP SP1 machine that I deliberately haven't upgraded (and also on a Windows 2000 Compaq SFF thing but the HDD was dying on that one). I can't access "modern" sites at all on those old machines, most of them give a security error and refuse to load even plain text. Most forums are still OK but even then some of them have a HTTPS mode that Firefox doesn't understand so they get locked out, or use a Java/JavaScript-based layout where nothing loads properly (or at all). I really miss plain old HTML. As for social media, Reddit seems to still work on old PCs, although I would suggest changing the "www" to "old" to access the old style Reddit layout which is infinitely faster and more desktop friendly.

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Old 01-14-2019, 05:37 PM   #53
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Default Re: The 2019 Operating System Thread

Using Windows 7 at home on two desktops.

Work though uses Windows 10 Professional (VLK). Curiously enough it updates less than consumer versions of Windows 10.

EDIT:

Voted Windows 7 and it has the lead.
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Old 01-14-2019, 08:24 PM   #54
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Voted Windows 7 and it has the lead.
Popularity, esp in the PC world, usually means very little!
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Old 01-14-2019, 08:31 PM   #55
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I see no end in sight for me using win7 or S2K12 R2 carved into workstation mode. I run unpatched anyway (save for a few hand-picked standalone patches), so EoL won't phase me. If you're smart about things, you'll be ok. Taking security seriously is one thing, fanaticism about it is ridiculous. What would kill an OS for me is lack of firefox/waterfox support, and that will be a while....hell, I'm still using waterfox 56.2.6......57 and after dropped legacy addon support, and no status bar = no use by me!
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Old 01-15-2019, 12:07 AM   #56
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Just as true today as it was in the AOHell days...
Or Ahellphia! (shudders!)
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Old 01-15-2019, 09:29 AM   #57
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I see no end in sight for me using win7 or S2K12 R2 carved into workstation mode. I run unpatched anyway (save for a few hand-picked standalone patches), so EoL won't phase me. If you're smart about things, you'll be ok. Taking security seriously is one thing, fanaticism about it is ridiculous. What would kill an OS for me is lack of firefox/waterfox support, and that will be a while....hell, I'm still using waterfox 56.2.6......57 and after dropped legacy addon support, and no status bar = no use by me!
I said that about XP and W2KS. Then, started finding app updates that were no longer supported on those platforms. And, the pressing need for a 64b OS instead of the more cramped 32b world.

Of course, the sword bites both ways -- app upgrades drag you forward and, at the same time, cause you to forfeit older apps that can't cope with the new OS changes.

My current plan has been to carefully assess every tool and convince myself that I can live with it -- and any problems/quirks it might have -- indefinitely and, thus, stave off the need to move beyond 7.

Of course, my "plan" for XP was similar. So, I'm not sure how realistic it will be in W7!
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Old 01-15-2019, 09:39 AM   #58
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I remember back in the early 2000's when I was just getting a little older and getting into computers. Had a lot of trouble with HDD space, as I only had a 20 GB in my "gaming" PC in 2003. Of course, games weren't that big then. But being a teenager, this was also the time I started with my music collection. So naturally, I was always running out of space on that ol' 20 GB Maxtor.
Try living with 60 MEGAbytes!

And, before that, a pair of 1.4MB (8 inch!) floppies.

But, software was much less bloated, then. And, amusingly, you had almost comparable performance/productivity boost -- you just had to "work differently".

[E.g., nowadays, folks expect RESULTS every time they click on something. The idea of STARTING a process that might take hours (days) is anathema to most -- yet commonplace, then. (Hint: try "make world" on a UN*X box)]

Quote:
As such, everything was kept structured and organized. No double copies of anything on the drive! Moreover, anything big that wasn't used much would get compressed into RAR or similar (if, of course, the file yielded itself well to compression). Anything that was big and not used often and couldn't be compressed was burned onto CDs... and since I didn't have a DVD writer but only a CD writer, I maxxed out the space in those CDs to the max. 20 MB free space on the CD? [i]- No, I can't burn that CD yet!
I spooled the entire disk onto a (9track) tape and then reloaded another "disk image" from a different reel. So, ended up with many duplicates simply because I needed one in each "machine image".

The downside was that it made it very difficult to update all instances of a particular program. E.g., if I created a new Brief macro, I had to wait until the next time I had "installed" a particular machine image, update the macro library (from a floppy) and then make a new image tape in order to ensure that macro would be available the next time I wanted it. Or, if I found a new 386MAX configuration that freed up a bit more RAM...

Moral of story: think REALLY HARD about what you want cuz changes can be expensive!
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Old 01-15-2019, 09:43 AM   #59
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Of course, my "plan" for XP was similar. So, I'm not sure how realistic it will be in W7!
Probably so....but if you remember, 3rd party support for XP went well beyond EoL. You've still got a few years for W7 for sure. S2K12 goes EoL in 2023, so 4+ solid years there....and when you carve S2K12 R2 Standard into 'workstation mode', with classic shell and a few tweaks, the interface is very nice without all the nonsense, dancing tiles, and consumer grade stupidity of 10...
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Old 01-15-2019, 09:51 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momaka View Post

I remember back in the early 2000's when I was just getting a little older and getting into computers. Had a lot of trouble with HDD space, as I only had a 20 GB in my "gaming" PC in 2003. Of course, games weren't that big then. But being a teenager, this was also the time I started with my music collection. So naturally, I was always running out of space on that ol' 20 GB Maxtor.
What?! I suspect a lot of .wav files, LOL.
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