Original Xbox Replacement Caps

[NeMesiS34]

I've been modding Original Xbox consoles for over ten years.
As these things age I find myself becoming more of a refurbisher.

The most common problem is the clock capacitor which tends to leak.
This is illustrated in the first 2 attached pictures below.
The faulty capacitor is a SuperStor 1F 2.5v SuperCap (console v1.0 to 1.5)
It wasnt until the final Original Xbox version 1.6 that the cap was replaced,
with a Nichicon 1F 2.5v Gold SuperCap, as seen in the 3rd picture.

I came across and have been looking for replacement caps at "mouser.com"
I've noticed that smaller caps like 22uf 25v have a life span of around 2000hrs
Medium sized have life span of around 5 to 7k hrs and 10k for the largest (psu) caps.
I'd like these console to last another decade, I'm considering replacing most,
if not all caps on the motherboards and power supply units.

The 4th picture is a Xbox version 1.0 motherboard (with cpu fan)
13x 25v 22uf Nippon SMG
6x 25v 100uf Nichicon VR
3x 16v 1500uf Nichicon PW
2*x 10v 3300uf Nichicon PW
1x 10v 680uf Nichicon PW
5x 6.3v 1500uf Nippon KZE (6th picture)
1x 1F 2.5v SuperStor

The 5th picture is a Xbox version 1.1 motherboard (without cpu fan)
13x 25v 22uf Nippon SMG
6x 25v 100uf Nichicon VR
3x 16v 1500uf Nichicon PW
1*x 10v 3300uf Nichicon PW
1x 10v 680uf Nichicon PW
5x 6.3v 1500uf Unidentified Solid Cap (7th picture)
1x 1F 2.5v SuperStor

My Questions:
I have little experience and limited knowledge in regards to caps.
1) Would i need to replace solid caps with other solid caps or can I use wet caps?
2a) Would it be better to use caps with a higher ripple current and lower leakage current?
2b) Would it be better to use Nichicon HD series over PW series?
3a) Any advantage in using higher voltage caps whilst maintaining capacitance?
3b) For example 22uf 50v over 22uf 25v or 1500uf 10v over 1500uf 6.3v, etc...
4) What would be a better clock cap alternative to the SuperStor 1F 2.5v?

Thanks in advance, Nemo

[stj]

you dont need the supercap, under 1.6 just leave it out.
on a 1.6 you need something so stuff a 100uf electrolytic there or the console wont start.

there is no cpu fan btw, that's the g-force3 gpu your refering to.
the cpu vrm caps - the 1500uf 6.3v must be *very* low esr or use poly's
for the rest, just use panasonic FR

finally, your unidentified caps are not solid, they are just electrolytics.
the symbol on them is Nichicon - they are HD series.

[Wester547]

I'm not sure if the Aerogel clock capacitor is actually defective. These capacitors are 1F, 2.5V, and IIRC, the clock capacitor is ran right at its maximum voltage (2.5V is the voltage the clock circuit runs at, if memory serves), which is why both the Aerogel capacitor and even sometimes the Nichicon UC capacitor (which bulges now and then because of that) has a limited life. Though, since the Aerogel capacitor almost always leaks from the bottom, it may be sealed very poorly. For what it's worth, I would just desolder the clock capacitor (from versions 1.0-1.5) and forget about it. It isn't very useful anyway - if you remove AC power, it only keeps the time for what, a few hours? Those ADDA hyprobearing fans that come with version 1.0 of the console tend to seize prematurely as well.

There are also a bunch of small SMD electrolytics as you can see - one is 47uF 16V, six are 10uF 16V. Nichicon 85C (WX series very likely), Chemi-con 85C (MV series - can be identified by the shield), and Suncon (Sanyo) 85C (CBS series, from what I can tell) SMD electrolytics are all used interchangeably there. The 3300uF 6.3V Nichicon HMs were also known to go bad in versions 1.2-1.6 (2002-2005 datecodes) of the console, in the VRM input and output. I believe there is also one more 680uF 16V HM (again 2002-2004 datecodes) used in version 1.2-1.5 (it's used interchangeably with a Panasonic FJ of the same value). Never seen it actually go bad, but it wouldn't hurt to replace all the electrolytics, as you said.

[NeMesiS34]

Thanks for all the replies,

Originally Posted by stj

you dont need the supercap, under 1.6 just leave it out.
on a 1.6 you need something so stuff a 100uf electrolytic there or the console wont start.

100uf 25v cap?

Originally Posted by stj

there is no cpu fan btw, that's the g-force3 gpu your refering to.
the cpu vrm caps - the 1500uf 6.3v must be *very* low esr or use poly's
for the rest, just use panasonic FR

finally, your unidentified caps are not solid, they are just electrolytics.
the symbol on them is Nichicon - they are HD series.

Noted...

Originally Posted by Wester547

For what it's worth, I would just desolder the clock capacitor (from versions 1.0-1.5) and forget about it. It isn't very useful anyway.

I agree with the both of you to remove the clock cap

Originally Posted by Wester547

Those ADDA hyprobearing fans that come with version 1.0 of the console tend to seize prematurely as well.

Yea so I've noticed, they can be surprising loud.
I've been trying to find a replacement, I found similiar heat sink fans.
But there only 40x40mm where 40x50mm is needed to be mounted properly.
Maybe i'll just slide in a standard 40x40x10mm fan and secure somehow.

Originally Posted by Wester547

There are also a bunch of small SMD electrolytics as you can see - one is 47uF 16V, six are 10uF 16V. Nichicon 85C (WX series very likely), Chemi-con 85C (MV series - can be identified by the shield), and Suncon (Sanyo) 85C (CBS series, from what I can tell) SMD electrolytics are all used interchangeably there.

Cheers, I forgot to mention them...

Originally Posted by Wester547

The 3300uF 6.3V Nichicon HMs were also known to go bad in versions 1.2-1.6 (2002-2005 datecodes) of the console, in the VRM input and output. I believe there is also one more 680uF 16V HM (again 2002-2004 datecodes) used in version 1.2-1.5 (it's used interchangeably with a Panasonic FJ of the samevalue). Never seen it actually go bad, but it wouldn't hurt to replace all the electrolytics, as you said.

Thats right, versions 1.2-1.5 have those HM series caps.

Questions:
Do you guys prefer Panasonic over Nichicon?
Picture 6 (1.0mobo) you can see the two black caps to the right (3300uf 10v),
Picture 7 (1.1mobo) there is only one but the cap is still allocated on the board,
Could this be filled in? Would there be any benefit?

Cheers, Nemo

[stj]

these "supercaps" are a joke, i had the datasheet for them.
they are rated for something like 500 charge/discharge cycles.
after that - it's anybody's guess what they do - other than piss themselves on the board above some fets.

[Wester547]

Originally Posted by stj

these "supercaps" are a joke, i had the datasheet for them.
they are rated for something like 500 charge/discharge cycles.
after that - it's anybody's guess what they do - other than piss themselves on the board above some fets.

I attached the datasheet for both Nichicon UC and Aerogel Powerstor B series.

Worst of all, both capacitors are only rated for 1,000 hours @ 70*C, both load life and shelf life.

[stj]

pana vs nichi is like atari vs comodore - we could start a war over it!

why dont you get a passive gpu sink from a dead xbox higher than 1.0 ?

[NeMesiS34]

Originally Posted by stj

pana vs nichi is like atari vs comodore - we could start a war over it!

why dont you get a passive gpu sink from a dead xbox higher than 1.0 ?

LoL... no worries
I have 5x 1.0 consoles atm
and 2x dead 1.6 consoles
I would still be shy by 3 heatsinks

[NeMesiS34]

-------------------------------------------
Versions 1.0 to 1.1
-------------------------------------------

Mobo Caps:
13x 25v 22uf Nichicon VR
6x 25v 100uf Nichicon VR
3x 16v 1500uf Nichicon PW
2*x 10v 3300uf Nichicon PW
1x 10v 680uf Nichicon PW
5x 6.3v 1500uf Nichicon HD (Solid/Wet)
1x 1F 2.5v SuperStor!

SMD Caps:
1x 16v 47uf
6x 16v 10uf

(Delta) PSU Caps:
1x 50v 10uf Ltec (Gold)
1x 25v 47uf Ltec (Blue/Green)
2x 25v 100uf Nippon KY
2x 200v 330uf Taicon?
3x 10v 2200uf Nippon KY
1x 16v 1000uf Nippon KY

RAM:
Samsung
K4D263238M-QC50

-------------------------------------------
Versions 1.2 to 1.5
-------------------------------------------

Mobo Caps:
13x 25v 22uf Nichicon VR
7x 25v 100uf Nichicon VR
3x 6.3v 3300uf Nichicon HM
2x 10v 3300uf Nichicon PW
1x 16v 680uf Nichicon PW
3x 6.3v 1500uf Nichicon HD (Solid)
1x 1F 2.5v SuperStor!

SMD Caps:
1x 16v 47uf
5x 16v 10uf

(Delta) PSU Caps:
1x 400v 150uf Rubycon USR
3x 50v 0.22uf Taicon?
2x 25v 100uf Taicon?
1x 25v 47uf Taicon?
3x 10v 2200uf Ltec (Blue/Green)
1x 16v 1000uf Ltec (Blue/Green)

RAM:
Samsung
K4D263238D-QC50 (v1.2-1.3)
K4D263238F-QC50 (v1.4-1.5)

-------------------------------------------
Version 1.6
-------------------------------------------

Mobo Caps:
11x 25v 22uf Nichicon VR
3x 25v 100uf Nichicon VR
3x 6.3v 1500uf Rubycon ZL (Wet)
5x 6.3v 3300uf Rubycon MBZ

SMD Caps:
1x 16v 47uf
3x 16v 10uf

(Delta) PSU Caps:
3x 50v 1uf CapXon?
1x 50v 0.47uf CapXon?
1x 50v 10uf CapXon?
1x 50v 22uf CapXon?
1x 10v 2200uf CapXon?
1x 25v 470uf CapXon?
1x 10v 3300uf CapXon?
2x 200v 330uf CapXon?

[Wester547]

Originally Posted by NeMesiS34

5x 6.3v 1500uf Nichicon HD (Solid/Wet)

Those Nichicon HDs aren't hybrid polymers. They are wet electrolytics in laminated cases.

1x 1F 2.5v SuperStor!

Not much of a "super" stor if it leaks from the bung upon every glance.

1x 50v 10uf Ltec (Gold)

LTEC ST series.

1x 25v 47uf Ltec (Blue/Green)

LTEC LZG series? Might not hurt to replace it if it's a startup capacitor (I think it is).

2x 25v 100uf Nippon KY

Those are the capacitors for filtering the linear regulated +3.3VSB output (that's why these units only have two optocouplers).

2x 200v 330uf Taicon?

Two Taicon VZs in the voltage doubler. Those may be safe to keep.

3x 10v 2200uf Nippon KY

Two of those are in parallel for the +5V output, one for +3.3V.

1x 16v 1000uf Nippon KY

That's the +12V filtering capacitor.

3x 6.3v 1500uf Nichicon HD (Solid)

Those aren't solid capacitors.

3x 50v 0.22uf Taicon?

Taicon VX?

2x 25v 100uf Taicon?

Taicon PW and VX for filtering +3.3VSB.

1x 25v 47uf Taicon?

Taicon VX.

3x 10v 2200uf Ltec (Blue/Green)

As before, two LZGs for +5V, one for +3.3V.

1x 16v 1000uf Ltec (Blue/Green)

+12V filtering capacitor, LZG series. The LTECs and Taicons may or may not be safe to keep in both units, as these Delta units run quite a bit cooler than the Foxlink equivalents, especially on the secondary side (the Foxlink heatsinks get much hotter which can't be good for the stock Teapo SC and SEK capacitors, or for that matter the hard drive chassis sitting right above it).

(Delta) PSU Caps:
3x 50v 1uf CapXon?
1x 50v 0.47uf CapXon?
1x 50v 10uf CapXon?
1x 50v 22uf CapXon?
1x 10v 2200uf CapXon?
1x 25v 470uf CapXon?
1x 10v 3300uf CapXon?
2x 200v 330uf CapXon?

CapXon GS and GL. And that's actually a Samsung power supply made in Tuscany as evidenced by the transformer part number. And yes, DPSN-96BP-1 is the part number. Also, those early Foxlink units were the worst when it came to cracked solder joints in the AC inlet (FTPS-0001, except revision D, and FTPS-0002 were the affected models - the socket and inlet were only held in place by two measly plastic clips so eventually the solder would break with repeated insertions and disconnections of the power cord).

[NeMesiS34]

Originally Posted by Wester547

And that's actually a Samsung power supply made in Tuscany as evidenced by the transformer part number. And yes, DPSN-96BP-1 is the part number. Also, those early Foxlink units were the worst when it came to cracked solder joints in the AC inlet (FTPS-0001, except revision D, and FTPS-0002 were the affected models - the socket and inlet were only held in place by two measly plastic clips so eventually the solder would break with repeated insertions and disconnections of the power cord).

Thanks for the reply, very informative...
Samsung PSU, learn something everyday
Yea I wrote about that FoxLink on another Forum earlier this week: XBMC4Xbox

[stj]

that list is no good, you made the classic mistake of not including diameter and where it's under something - height.

also, put the part number for the psu's because there are multiple models for different markets.

[NeMesiS34]

Originally Posted by stj

that list is no good, you made the classic mistake of not including diameter and where it's under something - height.

I can fix that up once I've come back from the dentist later this afternoon.

Originally Posted by stj

also, put the part number for the psu's because there are multiple models for different markets.

True, these PSU are from the Australian market
The PSU I listed earlier are all "Delta"
Also come across a couple "FoxLink" PSU's in some v1.0's
I will also make a listing for it when I get a chance.

Attached are 2 pictures of a Delta PSU from a v1.4-1.5
Picture 2 shows "DPSN-96BP-1" is this the part number?

[mariushm]

The last three pictures show fuses, T means they're "time delay" fuses, then you have the current and voltage.

The first picture shows some capacitors, most likely made by Teapo if I'm going by the color and the shape of the vent. If you want to be more accurate, you'll just have to use a sharp blade to cut the glue and desolder the capacitors to read the capacitance and voltage rating.

The glue is there just to prevent components from vibrating and/or popping out of the pcb holes when these pcbs go through wave soldering. You can cut it out without damaging the power supply.

ps. pay attention to those gray and green wires, the insulation is almost cut. may want to put some tape around the cables for safety.

[NeMesiS34]

Originally Posted by mariushm

The last three pictures show fuses, T means they're "time delay" fuses, then you have the current and voltage.

Awesome, thanks.

Originally Posted by mariushm

ps. pay attention to those gray and green wires, the insulation is almost cut. may want to put some tape around the cables for safety.

Yea, just noticed that thanks again

[stj]

i have a 1.1 i need to fix soon - i may go part poly and part tantalum on it.
i can probably get a bunch of poly's from a fucked xbox360

[stj]

firstly the original xbox never used polymers.

now as for upgrades.
you need to get an idea of what each cap is actually for and what voltage it gets hit with.

i suspect that you can use panasonic FR series for everything other than the cpu vrm caps.
those will be the very low esr ones that are rated at 6.3v

[NeMesiS34]

Originally Posted by stj

firstly the original xbox never used polymers.

I think someone may have already told me that...

Originally Posted by stj

now as for upgrades.
you need to get an idea of what each cap is actually for and what voltage it gets hit with.
I suspect that you can use panasonic FR series for everything

Someone had also mentioned the Panasonic FR series.
Could I also use Panasonic FM and/or Nichicon HD series?

Originally Posted by stj

other than the cpu vrm caps. those will be the very low esr ones that are rated at 6.3v

Again it was mentioned earlier to use Panasonic FJ series for the 1500uf 6.3v caps.
However I cannot seem to find it on the Mouser.com website...
Panasonic FR and FM series have a ESR of 18mOhms, How low must it be?
What would be a good Panasonic and/or Nichicon alternative?

[NeMesiS34]

Originally Posted by stj

i suspect that you can use panasonic FR series for everything other than the cpu vrm caps. those will be the very low esr ones that are rated at 6.3v

Coming back to this, The VRM caps on v1.0-1.1 consoles have 5x 1500uf 6.3v Nichicon HD series, so couldn't Panasonic FR series be used here as well?

The VRM caps on v1.2-1.5 consoles have 3x 3300uf 6.3v Nichicon HM series, however still have 2 or 3 1500uf 6.3v Nichicon HD's located elsewhere on the board. Again couldn't Panasonic FR series replace the HM series?

[stj]

you wont find FJ, they werent sold to the public - just to motherboard makers afaik.
panasonic dont have an alternative.
rubycon MBZ or MCZ would have worked, but they are discontinued.
you can probably use 820uf or higher polymers.

FM can be used instead of FR but cost more for some reason.
i dont have a nichi HD datasheet to hand.

does the console work or is this a repair question?