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    refrigeration device repair...

    How often do people find out that when a refrigerator, air conditioner, etc. failed it's due to a bad capacitor, thermostat, or something in the control circuitry versus a problem with a refrigerant leak or a compressor failure (of which a "big" leak would be needed to repair such as a discharge would be needed)?

    Anyone work on these things?

    I currently have a dehumidifier that was rootcaused to a bad squirrel cage on the blower fan...so fortunately not a refrigerant issue. But curious what people have come across. Wondering if I see a decent looking modern refrigerator (really would like a cheap chest freezer) or window AC unit if it's worth to pick up and use after repairing it -- except if it's a refrigerant issue, it's pretty much "go directly to landfill, do not pass go, do not collect a cooling device."

    #2
    Re: refrigeration device repair...

    I have in a past life I use to do this type of work all the time and those are common issues with air conditioning and refrigerators the most common issues are starting relay that is on the compressor they fail with out warning

    On air conditioning compressor and fan motor capacitors this is also a very common issue and a less common issue is with the old fashion thermostat but with the digital thermostat are another story all together fan motors for both inside and outside fans squirrel cages and fan blades can also be issue sometimes

    I would not consider buying any used air conditioning or refrigerator or dehumidifier or anything that has refrigerant in it that has been supposedly repaired ( seal system repairs —> ) I would not even think about it because it would greatly depends on how much experience the person that doing these repairs have because I seen a lot of technicians taking so many short cuts it is not funny not worth the risk of loosing your money

    I hope this is what you want answered
    Last edited by sam_sam_sam; 01-01-2022, 11:40 AM.
    9 PC LCD Monitor
    6 LCD Flat Screen TV
    30 Desk Top Switching Power Supply
    10 Battery Charger Switching Power Supply for Power Tool
    6 18v Lithium Battery Power Boards for Tool Battery Packs
    1 XBox 360 Switching Power Supply and M Board
    25 Servo Drives 220/460 3 Phase
    6 De-soldering Station Switching Power Supply 1 Power Supply
    1 Dell Mother Board
    15 Computer Power Supply
    1 HP Printer Supply & Control Board * lighting finished it *


    These two repairs where found with a ESR meter...> Temp at 50*F then at 90*F the ESR reading more than 10%

    1 Over Head Crane Current Sensing Board ( VFD Failure Five Years Later )
    2 Hem Saw Computer Stack Board

    All of these had CAPs POOF
    All of the mosfet that are taken out by bad caps

    Comment


      #3
      Re: refrigeration device repair...

      Oh... yes. I was wondering about whether to take chances from free Craigslist refrigeration devices and whether they can be repaired or not. Refrigerant loss is a total loss for me, which implies compressor loss as it would entail refrigerant loss as I don't have equipment to recover and replace.

      Thermostats, starter caps, fans, etc. I can deal with...

      Comment


        #4
        Re: refrigeration device repair...

        I have the equipment but it is not worth the time and hassle for me to even do it for myself wall air conditioning units or refrigerators - central air conditioning units are the only ones that I would do for myself
        9 PC LCD Monitor
        6 LCD Flat Screen TV
        30 Desk Top Switching Power Supply
        10 Battery Charger Switching Power Supply for Power Tool
        6 18v Lithium Battery Power Boards for Tool Battery Packs
        1 XBox 360 Switching Power Supply and M Board
        25 Servo Drives 220/460 3 Phase
        6 De-soldering Station Switching Power Supply 1 Power Supply
        1 Dell Mother Board
        15 Computer Power Supply
        1 HP Printer Supply & Control Board * lighting finished it *


        These two repairs where found with a ESR meter...> Temp at 50*F then at 90*F the ESR reading more than 10%

        1 Over Head Crane Current Sensing Board ( VFD Failure Five Years Later )
        2 Hem Saw Computer Stack Board

        All of these had CAPs POOF
        All of the mosfet that are taken out by bad caps

        Comment


          #5
          Re: refrigeration device repair...

          So much r-waste in this world...

          Comment


            #6
            Re: refrigeration device repair...

            Only because of how crap-e these units are made and the cost of a compressor for a wall unit in some cases are more than it new and if it a gas leak is almost unrepairable is because the coil tubes are so paper thin it really can not be repaired easily if at all if it a cap tube restriction is hard to deal with because unless there is service manual you have take a special type of tool to know what the in side diameter of the tube is and try to find a replacement for it which is hard to do and the cost of some types of Freon is very expensive to buy also and you have to have a license to buy it anyway

            If it is a compressor burn out then the cost of the repair is more than a new one because of labor involved and there is no guarantee of how long it will last because of the fact that it was a burn out

            If it is a compressor failure that is not a burn out it might be worth repairing it depending on how much the compressor cost and what type of Freon it uses

            Refrigerator are not worth repairing if it is Freon leaking or compressor failure of any kind because unless you really take your time and vacuum it out for hours and hope that you do not still have a very small leak somewhere this is not worth the time or effort because your success rate is about 50/50 that it will work correctly for many more years

            These are the reasons it is not worth my time and money to repair this crap anymore

            I am one if I can repair something easily and it does not cost more than a new one I would rather repair it and keep it out of recyclers hands and who knows what they do with them anymore
            Last edited by sam_sam_sam; 01-01-2022, 04:49 PM.
            9 PC LCD Monitor
            6 LCD Flat Screen TV
            30 Desk Top Switching Power Supply
            10 Battery Charger Switching Power Supply for Power Tool
            6 18v Lithium Battery Power Boards for Tool Battery Packs
            1 XBox 360 Switching Power Supply and M Board
            25 Servo Drives 220/460 3 Phase
            6 De-soldering Station Switching Power Supply 1 Power Supply
            1 Dell Mother Board
            15 Computer Power Supply
            1 HP Printer Supply & Control Board * lighting finished it *


            These two repairs where found with a ESR meter...> Temp at 50*F then at 90*F the ESR reading more than 10%

            1 Over Head Crane Current Sensing Board ( VFD Failure Five Years Later )
            2 Hem Saw Computer Stack Board

            All of these had CAPs POOF
            All of the mosfet that are taken out by bad caps

            Comment


              #7
              Re: refrigeration device repair...

              All the dehumidifiers I came across were always leaking refrigerant. I just replaced a 16 year old fridge, because it leaked oil from the compressor on to the floor. At the beginning I used to keep the starter caps, but I’ve got a pile now so I don’t bother anymore taking these out.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: refrigeration device repair...

                Originally posted by eccerr0r View Post
                Oh... yes. I was wondering about whether to take chances from free Craigslist refrigeration devices and whether they can be repaired or not.
                Depends on what Craigslist is like in your area.
                Here (greater Washington D.C. area - i.e. D.C. + NoVA + MD) people throw out good working fridges fairly frequently simply because they are doing a kitchen "updating" / remodeling. But not all the time. I also see a fair amount of new shiny fridges - these are typically the modern stuff that fails / have failed, though. I don't have any experience or expertise in HVAC stuff, but from what I've heard, a lot of modern stuff (made in the last 10 years or so) fails much more often due running at much higher pressures in order to get better efficiency (which ends up chewing through the compressor faster)... and possibly something to do with the newer refrigerants too. Though the electronics in newer stuff also seems to fail occasionally (if you are lucky?)

                Also, as nice it may seem to find a "free" fridge/freezer to keep as a 2nd unit, don't forget the added cost of electricity for that. At least in our households (mine, my sister's family, and my parents), the fridges can sometimes account for as much as half of the electricity cost. So unless you really need a 2nd fridge/freezer (unless it's as a backup/offline/in storage), you may be better off not getting one.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: refrigeration device repair...

                  Originally posted by momaka View Post
                  I don't have any experience or expertise in HVAC stuff, but from what I've heard, a lot of modern stuff (made in the last 10 years or so) fails much more often due running at much higher pressures in order to get better efficiency (which ends up chewing through the compressor faster)... and possibly something to do with the newer refrigerants too.

                  Not as much of an issue with refrigerators as R134a operates at similar pressures to R12 which it replaced (R600a is also about the same and R290 slightly higher).


                  When it comes to AC/Heat-Pumps (both central and window) and dehumidifiers though, R410A operates at around double the PSI than R22 which it replaced does (and R32 which is now becoming more common in window ACs and dehumidifiers operates at similar pressures to R410A).


                  Examples (granted these are max design pressures, actual operating pressures are generally lower, but a higher design pressure translates to a higher operating pressure):

                  R22 (low 150 PSI, High 300 PSI):


                  R410A (low 167 PSI, High 602 PSI):


                  R32 (low 300 PSI, High 520 PSI):


                  Of course these are just examples, not all units will be exactly the same, but in general an R410A or R32 system will operate at much higher pressures than an R22 system.
                  Attached Files

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: refrigeration device repair...

                    Holy crap. That's pretty high pressure and of course diffusion is related to pressure difference, so I guess I should rule out newer stuff, they were designed to fail?

                    No, I don't think I'll be running it full time, more as an emergency backup. I don't know when I should expect my current fridge to fail...

                    And yes my CAC needs more R22... sigh. At least R134A can still be had relatively cheaply. Not that it matters for refrigeration devices like refrigerators, etc., where they are sealed off and require cutting and welding to repair...

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: refrigeration device repair...

                      I thought you cannot put R32 in a R410 system? At least that is what I read a while back. R410A is being replaced with R454B?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: refrigeration device repair...

                        Originally posted by CapLeaker View Post
                        I thought you cannot put R32 in a R410 system? At least that is what I read a while back. R410A is being replaced with R454B?
                        At least legally you can't since R32 is classified "mildly flammable" (same with R454B), electrical components in R32 or R454B systems require additional shielding to reduce the potential for sparks (slight "tweaks" to the system may also be needed for maximum operating efficiency). R32 is actually one of the components of R410A, which is a blend of R32 and R125 (the reason for the blend was to make R410A non-flammable).

                        Both R32 and R454B are both proposed alternatives for R410A (as is R466A which is non-flammable), with R32 being championed by Lennox and Daikin, and R454B championed by United Technologies (Carrier, Bryant, Payne, etc.) and Johnson Controls (York, Coleman, Luxair, etc.).

                        Currently US building codes do not allow for flammable refrigerants in permanently installed residential HVAC units so of the 3 only R466A would be allowed by current codes (relegating R32 and R454B to stuff like window units and portable dehumidifiers, and some industrial applications), but since R466A is the most expensive of the 3 there is a massive lobbying effort by the HVAC industry to amend the codes to allow for mildly-flammable refrigerants in permeant installations.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: refrigeration device repair...

                          Originally posted by dmill89 View Post
                          At least legally you can't since R32 is classified "mildly flammable" (same with R454B), electrical components in R32 or R454B systems require additional shielding to reduce the potential for sparks (slight "tweaks" to the system may also be needed for maximum operating efficiency). R32 is actually one of the components of R410A, which is a blend of R32 and R125 (the reason for the blend was to make R410A non-flammable).

                          Both R32 and R454B are both proposed alternatives for R410A (as is R466A which is non-flammable), with R32 being championed by Lennox and Daikin, and R454B championed by United Technologies (Carrier, Bryant, Payne, etc.) and Johnson Controls (York, Coleman, Luxair, etc.).

                          Currently US building codes do not allow for flammable refrigerants in permanently installed residential HVAC units so of the 3 only R466A would be allowed by current codes (relegating R32 and R454B to stuff like window units and portable dehumidifiers, and some industrial applications), but since R466A is the most expensive of the 3 there is a massive lobbying effort by the HVAC industry to amend the codes to allow for mildly-flammable refrigerants in permeant installations.
                          Thanks for the explanation! So far Daikin does not sell R32 stuff here in my area. I just put a Daikin in my house 6 months ago, but it is still R410a. Also on their websites they say R32 not for my area. Whatever…. So I thought just to switch the system From R410a to R32… so I read and came up with R454B and another one, probable the R466 that you mentioned.

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