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Old 10-30-2013, 12:24 AM   #41
rievax_60
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Default Re: Onkyo TX-NR616 won't stay powered on

Quote:
Originally Posted by tibimakai View Post
OK, at the Q5436 base I have 1.8V and the other only 0.64V.
I'm not sure how to measure another channel? As is, or I have to place the same link with the resistor there also?
Those voltages would be close to correct if the 0.64 was really -0.64v
I would like to have seen the voltages that would be going to the Bases of the finals also.
So far I dont see a strong reason for the last set of finals failing.
The 2.4v between the Bases of Q5446 and Q5436 is higher than the 2v I calculate it should be.
Measure this voltage on the good channel. There is no need to modify anything on the good channel

Last edited by rievax_60; 10-30-2013 at 12:29 AM..
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Old 10-30-2013, 12:50 AM   #42
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Default Re: Onkyo TX-NR616 won't stay powered on

That is -.064V you are right, forgot to put it there.
I didn't had to much time today, to measure at the finals.
I have to solder two wires at pin#2 and #3 at the connector, to be able to measure those base voltages.
I still leave the link and resistor in place, right?
I hope I didn't do something stupid and that is why it blew those parts.
I appreciate a lot your help. I'm new in this field. I have repaired three Harman Kardon AVR1700 with Tom's help an Onkyo with your help(transformer fuse) and now this Onkyo.
I have picked up a Yamaha HTR-4065 and tomorrow I'm picking up a Pioneer VSX1022-k.
The Yamaha seems dead, only the power button blinks a couple of times and even that blinking goes away.
Transformer doesn't get 120V. I will start another thread with these receivers.
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Old 10-30-2013, 02:32 AM   #43
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Default Re: Onkyo TX-NR616 won't stay powered on

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Originally Posted by tibimakai View Post
That is -.064V you are right, forgot to put it there.
I didn't had to much time today, to measure at the finals.
I have to solder two wires at pin#2 and #3 at the connector, to be able to measure those base voltages.
I still leave the link and resistor in place, right?
I hope I didn't do something stupid and that is why it blew those parts.
I appreciate a lot your help. I'm new in this field. I have repaired three Harman Kardon AVR1700 with Tom's help an Onkyo with your help(transformer fuse) and now this Onkyo.
I have picked up a Yamaha HTR-4065 and tomorrow I'm picking up a Pioneer VSX1022-k.
The Yamaha seems dead, only the power button blinks a couple of times and even that blinking goes away.
Transformer doesn't get 120V. I will start another thread with these receivers.
Leave the link in for now.
Remove the 1K resistor, its job was to prevent the bias voltage going too high if there was a fault in the bias circuit. Confirm that the bias voltage has not changed by much.
There still could be an intermittent fault in the bias circuit. Check Q6006 , Q5446 and associated components for fractured solder joints.
Ill wait until you have measured the bias voltage on the good channel then you will have to fit the finals. A precaution can be taken by temporarily replacing the emitter resistor with something higher in value to protect the finals incase there is still something wrong. The link will need to be removed.

Last edited by rievax_60; 10-30-2013 at 03:23 AM..
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Old 10-30-2013, 07:12 PM   #44
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Default Re: Onkyo TX-NR616 won't stay powered on

At the Q6066 base is -0.001V and at the Q6056 there is 1.2V with the resistor removed and link left there.
The other voltages did not change.(-0.64V and the 1.8V)
I will continue later.
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Old 10-30-2013, 10:33 PM   #45
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Default Re: Onkyo TX-NR616 won't stay powered on

At a good channel, at both bases similar to Q5436/Q5446 I'm, getting exactly +/-1.24V.
At the same channel at the final's bases, I'm getting exactly +/-0.53V.
That channel is perfectly balanced.
I have removed the link and the voltages at the Q5446/Q5436 bases and the final's bases jump up to around 20-24V.
Not good.

Last edited by tibimakai; 10-30-2013 at 10:46 PM..
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Old 10-31-2013, 02:23 AM   #46
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Default Re: Onkyo TX-NR616 won't stay powered on

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Originally Posted by tibimakai View Post
At a good channel, at both bases similar to Q5436/Q5446 I'm, getting exactly +/-1.24V.
At the same channel at the final's bases, I'm getting exactly +/-0.53V.
That channel is perfectly balanced.
I have removed the link and the voltages at the Q5446/Q5436 bases and the final's bases jump up to around 20-24V.
Not good.
When you remove the link, the feedback path becomes open, look where R5036 goes to.
It all should be ok when you fit the finals. But we still dont know why the last pair failed. All you can do now is fit the finals. If you want to take one more precaution, temporarily replace the emitter resistors with something from 10 to 100 ohms, then take some more voltage readings.
Did you check the bias transistors for cracked solder joints?
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Old 10-31-2013, 02:36 AM   #47
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Default Re: Onkyo TX-NR616 won't stay powered on

I just spotted something that bothers me. If the bias adj pot, R5445, develops poor wiper contact, the bias voltage will abruptly increase. Bias circuits are usually designed to be fail safe. If the pot fails, the bias reduces.
This can be checked by measuring between the final bases while adjusting the bias pot. The voltage should vary smoothly, not be jumpy. Leave it set to 1v for now.
A drop lite oil like sewing machine oil makes pots work better.
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Old 10-31-2013, 10:53 AM   #48
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Default Re: Onkyo TX-NR616 won't stay powered on

The bases shouldn't have the same voltage, as the good channel? It doesn't seem balanced to me.
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Old 10-31-2013, 10:55 AM   #49
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Default Re: Onkyo TX-NR616 won't stay powered on

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Originally Posted by rievax_60 View Post
All you can do now is fit the finals. If you want to take one more precaution, temporarily replace the emitter resistors with something from 10 to 100 ohms, then take some more voltage readings.
Did you check the bias transistors for cracked solder joints?
These resistors should have a high wattage?
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Old 10-31-2013, 10:57 AM   #50
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Default Re: Onkyo TX-NR616 won't stay powered on

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Originally Posted by rievax_60 View Post
Did you check the bias transistors for cracked solder joints?
Not yet, I have to take apart the whole receiver for that.
Next step, it will be that and re-installing the finals and maybe those emitter resistors.
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Old 10-31-2013, 07:52 PM   #51
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Default Re: Onkyo TX-NR616 won't stay powered on

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Originally Posted by tibimakai View Post
These resistors should have a high wattage?
High wattage would be best but maybe difficult to fit. Small resistors will be ok while there is no faults. The small resistors should also allow the amp to be run at very low volume into speakers, too loud will burn them out.
The main reason is to protect the finals while one last check is done on the bias.
Have you noticed and design differences compared to the schematic? Is R5476 really 82 ohms?
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Old 10-31-2013, 08:08 PM   #52
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Default Re: Onkyo TX-NR616 won't stay powered on

Quote:
Originally Posted by tibimakai View Post
The bases shouldn't have the same voltage, as the good channel? It doesn't seem balanced to me.
The feedback loop acts to control the point that its sensing, to zero volts.
there is no true center point to connect to in the output's driver stage.
It is the voltage difference at the finals' Bases that's more important.

Last edited by rievax_60; 10-31-2013 at 08:13 PM..
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Old 11-03-2013, 05:25 PM   #53
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Default Re: Onkyo TX-NR616 won't stay powered on

I have re installed the finals, placed two multimeters at the bases and turned it on.
Did not replaced the emitter resistors.
I have turned it on briefly and I have seen around 0.5Vs and then I turned it on and left it on.
To my surprise, it was working and those voltages were exactly the same, 0.59V.
So, the unit it's working. The only problem I'm having, is that I can't get video signal to my monitor. I will have to try it out on a TV.
Thank you very much for all your amazing help.
I still don't know what caused the blow, but the final result matters.
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Old 11-03-2013, 06:11 PM   #54
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Default Re: Onkyo TX-NR616 won't stay powered on

Yes I can confirm now that there is no video on any of the video outputs.
I have tried HDMI, component and composite. TV recognizes that there is something connected at that output, but there is no signal found.
The audio is working.

Last edited by tibimakai; 11-03-2013 at 06:14 PM..
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Old 11-03-2013, 06:51 PM   #55
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Default Re: Onkyo TX-NR616 won't stay powered on

I think you can access the menu through the display. Check all Video options.

Have you done a Reset ?
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Old 11-03-2013, 07:25 PM   #56
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Default Re: Onkyo TX-NR616 won't stay powered on

Finally I have managed to get to that screen and managed to start the firmware update.
I'm doing it as I write this.
I have high hopes, that it will start since the frmware suppose to address no video problem.
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Old 11-04-2013, 10:49 AM   #57
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Default Re: Onkyo TX-NR616 won't stay powered on

No luck yet.
I'm keep getting an error 3-68 when is all done.
I will keep trying different ways, but if it won't work, then I don't know whaty else can I do.
This is a well known issue, with these and other model Onkyos, that they loose the video or even the audio too. On mine I still have audio, but no video.
I can't get video at all, on any of the video outputs. I have tried composite, component too, no luck.
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:33 PM   #58
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Default Re: Onkyo TX-NR616 won't stay powered on

No luck. I have tried different ways to do the update, but it doesn't work.
Always ends up with error code 3-68. I don't know what that means.
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Old 11-05-2013, 02:03 PM   #59
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Default Re: Onkyo TX-NR616 won't stay powered on

It seems that the HDMI board is toast.
I'm reading about these issues on other forums, but I can't be sure which issue I have.
On a slightly older models seems like capacitors needed replacing on these boards. On more recent receivers I have seen some are re-flowing there boards.
Anybody has experience with these issues and how to repair them?
Somebody is repairing these boards on Ebay for $65. Not sure on my board's price yet, since he doesn't have one posted for my model, but he confirmed that he can repair it. Still waiting on his price.
I have a feeling that it needs re-flowing a BGA chip(s).
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Old 11-05-2013, 04:38 PM   #60
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Default Re: Onkyo TX-NR616 won't stay powered on

Usually linear reg or bad cap -- you can just go around checking reg voltages.
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