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Old 12-21-2018, 10:55 AM   #1
nyogo
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Default Marantz NR1504 No sound

Hi all.

I got a used Marantz NR1504 AVR with a firmware problem. The amp was stuck in a "update failed-retry" loop, possibly failed when the owner tried to update the fw over the internet.(Marantz/Denon well known issue)

I managed to break the loop and updated the firmware from usb.
The problem is that no sound coming from the speaker nor the headphone output. I tried different versions of FWs from usb also updated over net with the latest fw. Nothing changed.

Everything works fine btw: front display menus, web GUI, relays switching during power up and when plugging headphone.

When switching to Test Tone to set up speaker levels, only the front left speaker sounds, but only the test tone nothing else.

So I started to check everything based on the service manual(btw its really well documented):
- tried to reset different times/different parts (ucom, lan contrl., stored configs etc) to rule out sw problems
- checked all power rails: within 5% all levels are ok: 12V-7V-3.3V, etc
- not really seeing visually bad components/parts
- switched to service mode where I can just operate "blocks": when the Analog signal block is selected and should the signal pass through, still silent everything
- amp board working fine when feed with ext. signal via onboard connector (every channel)
- internet radio/tuner mode when it should play something coming from the DA/DSP on the HDMI board, I got signals on DA_FR,DA_FL (CN5202) so I assume DA/DSP and main controller is OK(checked with oscope)

So I suspect the something on the analog/AV board is gone. There is only a R2A15218FP analog mux IC on it with few other parts(attached the board scheme).

The problem is that the HDMI/DSP board is on top of the AV signal board, connected with vertical PCB boards so cannot measure anything on it when powered up.(Marantz has official flex cable kits for repair, but I don't )

I already ordered a new mux chip, but I really love to hear any ideas, since I'm not a professional and never repaired things like that.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Audio_Board_nr1504_u1b.pdf (436.2 KB, 8 views)
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Old 12-26-2018, 04:34 AM   #2
madan1
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Default Re: Marantz NR1504 No sound

All analog inputs go directly to R2A15218FP. There are two upstream channels ( ADINL ADINR ) which go from the R2A to the HDMI board for processing. You should be able to test the signal on that two upstream channels on the connector between the boards.
If you select pure/direct audio, the R2A15218FP stops using the upstream channels and passes the analog audio directly to its output channels.
By the way, you can see this on page 36 from the SM.

So, check if the R2A is passing the analog audio to the upstream channels ( if you can't access the connector, you should be able track the traces on the hdmi board ).
If there is upstream audio, but then there is no downstream ( on DAFL, DAFR and so on ) then you have a problem on the HDMI board.
If there is no upstream audio, then the IC is not working properly or is not commanded properly by the CPU.
You can check if the analog signal is reaching the IC by simply checking the continuity from the input terminals to the ICs pins.
Did you check if the R2A has the necessary power supply ( +/-7V most likely ) ?
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Old 12-26-2018, 05:15 AM   #3
nyogo
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Default Re: Marantz NR1504 No sound

Thanks, this is a good idea with the up/downstreams, i'll check it.

The +/- 7V is present (~7.2V) and testing with pure/direct audio on, there is no analog signal coming from the R2A (at least measuring on the connector which goes to the amp board).
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Old 12-27-2018, 09:16 AM   #4
nyogo
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Default Re: Marantz NR1504 No sound

Ok, now I'm a bit of confused.(and sad, because looks like there is another problem than R2A)

After a few days I had time to measure the up/downstreams. The receiver was unplugged from the power outlet for days.
So, first I switched to an internet radio and there was sound on the speakers also on the headphone. (First a little distorted, but after a few minutes it became OK)
Switched thru the dsp sound modes, checked each channel downstreams, and there was signal on the lines and sound from the speakers.

Then I tried the analog inputs. The upstream at ADIN_L/R is ok, but there was no signal on the downstream lines. Direct audio/pure audio on and still no signal, also there is no sound from the speakers.
Now the "funny" part: switched back to internet radio and the sound is gone, also the downstream signals.

So...I plugged out the receiver and back. It started to play the internet radio, but there was no sound until I pressed the dsp "sound mode" button.
If I switch to another input then there is no sound(even switch back to internet radio) and also no downstream, until I plug out from the mains.
If there is sound, it is distorted (lack of bass, little bit fuzzy).

I assume this leads back the problem to the HDMI board. Also based on the sound I hear it's similar to when the signal line has contact problem.

I think I'm gonna start checking around the DAC (PCM1690) and trace back the signals.
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Old 12-27-2018, 01:50 PM   #5
madan1
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Default Re: Marantz NR1504 No sound

Check again the power supplies for ripples.

p.s. keep in mind that the internet radio and the USB music ( not sure about the second tho, check the SM ) do not go directly through processing. They have their own D/A converter and have a dedicated stereo downstream to the R2A. Then if needed ( like if you have selected some kind of an audio processing ) they go through the stereo upstream to the HDMI board.

Last edited by madan1; 12-27-2018 at 02:24 PM..
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Old 12-27-2018, 03:14 PM   #6
nyogo
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Default Re: Marantz NR1504 No sound

15V, +/-7V,5V main lines are ok(clean, straight line) measured on the board connectors.

Checked the four EX4AV DC-DC converter, 1.1-1.2-1.8-3.3V good, measured on the "output" caps. I checked the voltage on the few big electrolytic caps on the DAC's power lines, the supplies were ok.
But...there are a few caps near the DAC(on the VCC1/VCC2 and VDD lines) and I cannot reach them, because it's under the HDMI board along with the DAC chip

So for now, at least I know that the source where the voltages are created is clean.
Tomorrow I'll try to measure the power supplies directly on the chips' vcc pins.
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Old 12-28-2018, 08:47 AM   #7
madan1
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Default Re: Marantz NR1504 No sound

Oh, and just for the fun - when the issue occurs, get in the service menu and check the firmware versions of the different components.
Also, try applying heat to the BGA chips on the hdmi board ( not reflowing, just warm them up ).
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Old 12-28-2018, 08:58 AM   #8
mmartell
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Default Re: Marantz NR1504 No sound

Not saying this is your issue but...

I have here an SR5008 for which the sound disappears at times, other times it is there with varying amounts of noise and yet other times perfect.

If I HIT the right side at the rear with my fist I can induce one or another of these same symptoms. If you google you will find many Marantz owners with similar symptoms. I can even find a service bulletin covering a few models (not yours or mine however...)

So in my case it looks like a sketchy ground somewhere in the signal path. It has yet to be disassembled.

I would rule that out before you go nuts chasing your tail.
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Old 12-28-2018, 10:24 AM   #9
nyogo
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Default Re: Marantz NR1504 No sound

madan1: the weird thing is it doesn't matter that there is sound or not, the service menu always shows the correct fw version of each component. Also, when there is sound, I can switch through all DSP sound modes, so the internet radio should go through the DSP chip.
The BGA heating would be my next step, but first I'm going to check all connections/grounds and audio traces on PCB, because it looks and sounds like a cracked solder joint or PCB trace.

mmartell: thx!I'll definietly check it out.
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