Two graphic cards not detected by BIOS

[Bross]

Hi! I hope this is the right section, please let me know if it isn't.

I was doing a revision of what we have at home and found these two graphic cards. When I plug any of them in any of three working motherboards, the behavior is exactly the same as it isn't plugged in: not detected (the two ASUS mobs warns with one long beep and three shorts, and the AsRock, with integrated graphics, works with its own). Of course, I've already tested the same mobs with other several graphic cards and no problem at all. Maxmium W in PSUs are 450W, 460W and 750W: I'm sure that the problem is in these cards.

No visible damage in any component (I attach photos). Maybe power is not reaching the GPU? (they don't need extra power with 12V cables, everything is coming from the PCIe slot)

They are:

Graphic card 1: Gigabyte GV-N440D3-1GI Rev 1.0 (nVidia GeForce GT 440)
Graphic card 2: Club 3D Radeon HD 4650 1024 MB ("LF R73B ver 1.1")

So, I post this for any suggestion (what would you do) before I throw them away.

Cheers!

[stj]

Re: Two graphic cards not detected by BIOS

blue one has a surface-mount fuse lower-left
why the fuck are the screws rusty??

[Bross]

Re: Two graphic cards not detected by BIOS

why the fuck are the screws rusty??

Because I live next to the ocean. So beautiful, but so bad for metal things -.-

Didn't notice that fuse, I'll check it tomorrow and I'll tell, thanks!

[Bross]

Re: Two graphic cards not detected by BIOS

Tested that fused (and two more than I indicate in attachments) and no impedance or very low. I'm afraid that it would be so easy But that was the kind of ideas I was looking for!

By the way, I didn't realized that these are double-sided circuit boards. I attach new photos as well.

Any other typical component/s that makes graphic cards to die like if they aren't plugged in?

Another question. Components are identified in these circuit boards. I understand that F= fuse, C=capacitor and R=resistor. What are L, LB, TP, B, Q, REG and D ones?

[Curious.George]

Re: Two graphic cards not detected by BIOS

I understand that F= fuse, C=capacitor and R=resistor. What are L, LB, TP, B, Q, REG and D ones?

I didn't look through your photos to be sure (there are no hard-and-fast rules regarding component naming), but, typically: Inductor, Ferrite Bead (probably), Test Point, Bead, Transistor, Regulator, Diode.

Verify you have power ON the board (if your environment is so corrosive that components "rust", the contacts on the board and connectors may be dubious).

[stj]

Re: Two graphic cards not detected by BIOS

they need a damned good clean with a brush & IPA (not the beer)
maybe even an untrasonic tank.

[ChaosLegionnaire]

Re: Two graphic cards not detected by BIOS

yupp if u live in a humid/damp climate like mine, u often have to clean the goldfinger contacts or else stuff becomes undetectable when plugged in. wipe the goldfinger contacts on the card with isopropyl alcohol and clean the pci-e slot with a q-tip or cotton bud dipped in isopropyl alcohol.

also, another thing. i noticed the club 3d 4650 uses kzg caps which are a known bad cap series, so those caps need to be replaced also.

[stj]

Re: Two graphic cards not detected by BIOS

i was thinking of cleaning the whole pcb actually, look at the state of them!!

[brethin]

Re: Two graphic cards not detected by BIOS

Nasty, I'd clean first then try and repair.

[Bross]

Re: Two graphic cards not detected by BIOS

I can't find here isopropyl alcohol (I'm afraid IPA is a bigger deal). I've asked to my father where I can find here (or any variant that can do the same), but he's out in a trip and I don't know when he will have coverage. Anyway, I haven't any humid problems here (the sun is present almost all the year). Just rust after some years. But anyway I'll try cleaning with that just in case. I think it's very difficult that the problem will be in mobs, because other graphic cards always work in them.

Tomorrow I'll test the KZG caps out of the pcb and, if I find others of different brand to replace them, i will.

@stj, sorry but I'm afraid that I haven't that cleaning handicap (they were in a worst condition). An ultrasonic tank is out of my budget at the moment.

[Bross]

Re: Two graphic cards not detected by BIOS

Filed the Gigabyte (blue one) goldfinger contacts a little bit, and cleaned both graphic board goldfinger contacts with a mix of gasoline and diesel that we have here (we haven't isopropyl alcohol). The Gigabyte responded... can't believe that it was just that. I'm sure that I used ethyl alcohol and I think I filed last time as well. I'll make more tests and I'll let you know, but seems good.

About the Club 3D (red one), it didn't respond. I couldn't remove the caps and don't know why (I've already removed other caps, mosfets and other components before). I'll wait to my father's return (in ten days or so) and I'll ask him for help. I'll tell you about their state.

Thanks for your help until now

[petehall347]

Re: Two graphic cards not detected by BIOS

dont use diesel it is oily ..petrol is better . do outdoors though .. petrol aint that good though .. your spit on a paper towel will work just as good .

[momaka]

Re: Two graphic cards not detected by BIOS

There's also a good chance both of these may have failed GPU chips.

The red one (the Radeon) is likely to be revivable with a reflow... if that is its issue, of course. Those KZG caps are suspect too, as the others have noted here.

The blue video card (GeForce GT 440 looks like) might work now, but if it becomes undetectable again in the same PC without you removing it or anything... it probably has failed GPU.

Either way, if you can't fix these or don't want to or give up, you can always put them up on eBay or some other similar website for parts/repair rather than trashing them. People do actually buy these for parts sometimes (I know I do too, once in a while). Or put them in front of your house with a "Free/broken" sign.

[Bross]

Re: Two graphic cards not detected by BIOS

Thanks, Momaka! I'll test first the KZG caps in the red one first and, if it's still down, I'll try a reflow.

About the blue one, I'm embarrassed about what I'm going to say, but let's ask.

I made a Windows 7 performance evaluation with it, but I forgot to plug the graphic card fan connector. Openhardwaremonitor revealed about 76 ºC in the GPU after the evaluation, in calm, but reached about 104 ºC. I think 67 ºC more or less should be the maximum for this GPU.

After shutting down, plugged the graphic card out and waited for cooling (one or two hours) and I plugged the graphic card again (with the fan connected, of course). It's still working, but the fan is not spinning. I tested then the + and - terminals in the fan connector on the PCB and there is no impedance at all.

Any ideas about this? The (new) broken part could be some common component, or the fan control may be inside the GPU chip?

[petehall347]

Re: Two graphic cards not detected by BIOS

tip for cleaning the fingers . a pencil eraser is just the tool for this job .

[momaka]

Re: Two graphic cards not detected by BIOS

After shutting down, plugged the graphic card out and waited for cooling (one or two hours) and I plugged the graphic card again (with the fan connected, of course). It's still working, but the fan is not spinning. I tested then the + and - terminals in the fan connector on the PCB and there is no impedance at all.

Any ideas about this? The (new) broken part could be some common component, or the fan control may be inside the GPU chip?

PC fans are active load devices. Measuring its resistance won't tell you anything.

Fan is probably seized. But let's check: use a 9-15V power adapter and connect the fan to it with some wires (black is ground, red is positive, and yellow is speed/RPM signal feedback - so just apply power on ground and positive pins). See if it spins. If not, it's either seized or cooked.

Seized fans can usually be disassembled to get cleaned and oiled (though some new fans are now sealed, so that makes them a lot harder to service, especially if you've never serviced a PC fan before). Just peel sticker on the back, remove rubber plug (if there is one), and remove locking washer to pull the rotor assembly out. Then clean the sleeve bearing in the stator/fan housing with IPA or similar. In addition to that, I always use a small drill bit to clean the sleeve a little better by hand. Then put a drop of oil in the sleeve bearing and assemble back the fan. It should spin freely now. If not, repeat cleaning process.

[Bross]

Re: Two graphic cards not detected by BIOS

PC fans are active load devices. Measuring its resistance won't tell you anything.

Fan is probably seized.

The fan is tested and working. I wanted to mean that I did the measuring in the (unplugged) PCB connector.

[momaka]

Re: Two graphic cards not detected by BIOS

^ Then yes, it's normal for it to measure open-circuit or high resistance. After all, the power pins will be connected to 12V and ground. If there card has fan speed control, there may be a MOSFET or BJT likely in series between the 12V line and fan positive supply pin. It's possible Q223 might be responsible for that. To find out, first see if the fan ground pin on the board is connected to ground with your multimeter - should get a resistance reading if it is. Then see if the power (middle) fan pin on the board connects directly to the 12V rail or if it connects to Source/Emitter on Q223 (again, do a resistance/continuity test).

I don't see any larger inductors near the fan connector, though. So in all likeliness, fan is probably directly connected to the 12V rail.

[Bross]

Re: Two graphic cards not detected by BIOS

To find out, first see if the fan ground pin on the board is connected to ground with your multimeter - should get a resistance reading if it is.

Yes, about 1 ohm.

Then see if the power (middle) fan pin on the board connects directly to the 12V rail or if it connects to Source/Emitter on Q223 (again, do a resistance/continuity test).

I don't see any larger inductors near the fan connector, though. So in all likeliness, fan is probably directly connected to the 12V rail.

Yes, no impedance at all to both 12V rail and source.

Maybe this mosfet is faulty? There's about 1 ohm between source and gate (in PCB), but I don't know if that's right (or could be)

[momaka]

Re: Two graphic cards not detected by BIOS

Yes, no impedance at all to both 12V rail and source.

Maybe this mosfet is faulty? There's about 1 ohm between source and gate (in PCB), but I don't know if that's right (or could be)

Could be a MOSFET or a BJT. I can't quite tell, so will need a part number on Q223.

Regardless if that part is bad or not, the pin on the fan connector should still be connected to it, if Q223 is what controls it (perhaps see if it's connected to Drain then?)