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Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

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    #21
    Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

    OS X is fine, not that i use it or anything, but it's nothing special nowadays.. Mac hardware is still too expensive for what you get...

    Then again, i remember the days of the Pentium II versus the G3, and the "snail" ad, where supposedly a G3 had twice the CPU horsepower of an original Pentium II.. LOL.. And the G4 with the Altivec bullshit..

    I know my brother in law who has a Dual G5 is probably a bit pissed right now. I know that dual G5 cost him a pretty penny when it was new. I also find it supremely ironic that the Core series of chips kicks the G5's ass so much, as the Core series is derived from the P6 based Pentium II, and the G5 is derived from the PPC G3..

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      #22
      Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

      Originally posted by gg1978

      Then again, i remember the days of the Pentium II versus the G3, and the "snail" ad, where supposedly a G3 had twice the CPU horsepower of an original Pentium II.. LOL.. And the G4 with the Altivec bullshit..
      Yeah, this is one of the biggest things I dislike about Apple. They were complete lying sacks of crap about the PowerPC speeds. I have a couple of G3s and a G5 and they are stupidly slow compared to similar Intel chips. Yes, OSX overhead counts for a lot of that slowness, but the PowerPC was no where near as fast as Apple claimed it was.

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        #23
        Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

        I also like their whiny-baby attitude about marketing.

        Lets directly attack microsoft in our pc vs mac commercials by saying we are better in every way, and when microsoft runs their laptop hunter ads, we will sue them and try to make them take them down.

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          #24
          Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

          OS 9 was snappy. I have a g3 original imac with 128mb of ram and it runs surprisingly well. I've used a 64bit os for a few years now. Lots of viruses/malware can't run and its windows so :p

          Mac is not enterprise ready. I've had to support a client running all macs with an xserve and it was a pain. The xserve was slow too and they wouldn't replace it.

          You know apple has ALWAYS taken things away for one reason or another. Floppies anyone, ps/2 ports? They've always been money hungry.

          But are there any Dual-Xeon ones
          Fucking yes, if I buy a dual xenon board and load OSX86 I can have a "Dual-Xenon"... or a dual opteron or phenom II x4. You might even do it for cheaper than a mac pro.

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            #25
            Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

            Um...

            http://news.cnet.com/8301-19882_3-10322624-250.html

            http://www.pcworld.com/businesscente...ibilities.html
            A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.

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              #26
              Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

              Macs are supposed to "just work". If a simple $30 OS upgrade suddenly breaks a consumer's expensive apps and their not-even-that-old printer, how is their computer "just work"-ing?

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                #27
                Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

                It's not. That's the whole point.

                The Mac people pointed and laughed when Vista came out and had similar problems. What goes around comes around.

                Although I do have to admit that when the OS-X 10.5 that's on my netbook found my HP printer on the network, installed the software though software update, and told me what supplies I needed, without me having to do a d***ed thing (other than run software update), that was pretty neat. Such a pity they broke it in 10.6.
                A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.

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                  #28
                  Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

                  Oh Please!

                  Some older printers and applications not working?

                  Of course there's going to be older applications that won't work. Some of them are going to be expensive too, like Adobe products. (all of mine work, but there's bound to be many that don't)

                  Older printers not working? Of course! that's what happens when you install an all-new Operating System. Some older printers are never going to be supported either. Remember all those printers that XP wouldn't support?
                  My HP printer works just fine BTW.


                  People that install a one week old OS on a BUSINESS computer?
                  If you're really, really concerned about your business, NEVER install a just released ANYTHING be it an OS, application, piece of hardware, etc... are they nuts?


                  To Apple's supreme credit, they have a nice long list of stuff that won't work with Snow Leopard and list it openly right here:
                  http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3258
                  Yes, the list is way incomplete but it's a start.

                  If you go ahead and install anyway, the installer scans your computer for incompatibles and takes steps to prevent them from causing trouble. In many cases the older programs are prevented from running.

                  But really! If you want to run your old applications and use your old printers, shouldn't you be sticking with your old OS? At least wait until any updates might be released?

                  Here's the really important part:
                  Snow Leopard will not install on hardware that is not capable of running it.
                  Therefore, there should be practically no incompatibilities with Apple hardware.
                  That's the benefit of supporting a known and limited number of computers. They tested it very carefully on all of them, something Microsoft could not possibly do. This statement obviously excludes the Hackintoshes out there (which are not Apple's problem if they fail).


                  Still no troubles at all over here!
                  Zuma (an old, old Mac game) still plays wonderfully!
                  Keri

                  PS. The improved Mail app is great!
                  The neat little 'refections" to let you know which apps are running are awesome!
                  The "grid display" thing is nice.

                  Better and better, onward and upward!
                  The More You Learn The Less You Know!

                  Comment


                    #29
                    Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

                    My Vista Business 64bit detected and installed drivers for our old canon bubblejet printer that came with our compaq presario 4712 back in '95.

                    Just plugged it in the LPT port, detected, got drivers, and it still worked...somehow.

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                      #30
                      Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

                      Originally posted by 370forlife
                      My Vista Business 64bit detected and installed drivers for our old canon bubblejet printer that came with our compaq presario 4712 back in '95.

                      Just plugged it in the LPT port, detected, got drivers, and it still worked...somehow.
                      Yes, that's right. Most new OS's have built in drivers for tons of old printers, some of them really ancient. Snow Leopard supports lots of old printers too.

                      But every so often, some are overlooked or unsupported by the manufacturer (the printer driver is written by the printer manufacturer usually) or there is a vital subsystem that is peculiar to older OS's that the newer OS doesn't have and will never have.
                      That's when entire classes of printers get orphaned.
                      Not by age, but by requirements.

                      A long time ago, I had a nice NEC laser printer that XP dropped support for. It wasn't that NEC wouldn't write drivers for it, they couldn't. XP dropped support for that style of printer, and that was that. Too Bad.
                      It was a shame to throw out a nice printer, but I moved on then and I'll move on now.

                      Meanwhile, a positively ancient Laserjet 2 (1987!) has drivers built into Snow Leopard! How on Earth could you even connect it? You'd have to add a Parallel Port.


                      Really glad that I'm NOT still using that IBM 286 and DOS 5.0/Win 3.1,
                      Keri
                      Last edited by KeriJane; 09-01-2009, 08:21 PM.
                      The More You Learn The Less You Know!

                      Comment


                        #31
                        Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

                        Superior? Bah!. You do realize that Windows 7 will officially run on PCs 9 years old? And will run unofficially on even older than that. That's even further back then 10.5 supports, let alone 10.6. And before you say it, yes it runs fine on that level of hardware if you have enough RAM. It works great on the netbooks of today that are no faster than the PCs back then.

                        You want a real demo of how bad OSX is? I've done this very test and it's amazing. Find the slowest Intel Mac that can play a 1080p video. Not a crappy trailer off Apple's site, a real video from a blue-ray. Now run it in Windows, even Vista or 7. It will work fine. Then try on an even slower machine. OSX will fail and stutter, Windows will keep going and play fine on much slower hardware. Use any playback software you like, OSX will not be able to keep up to Windows for this simple task. Then throw Linux in, watch it do just as well as windows and prove that it's OSX that sucks. OSX has so much overhead that it needs much beefier hardware to do simple things like video playback. Superior indeed.

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                          #32
                          Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

                          Originally posted by KeriJane
                          OK. But are there any Dual-Xeon ones? Because that's what you get when you buy a Mac Pro. Apple hasn't really targeted the server market much so that's not a surprise.
                          Also, I'll betcha they aren't running XP or Vista.
                          You lose.

                          Quad-Xeons in many of them.
                          They all run XP (server 2003) and Vista (server 2008).
                          Most of my new builds are x64 types where the older builds are x86 32-bit with /PAE.
                          The application memory demands are such that 64-bit and huge memory is mandatory.

                          My point is not so much that Macs suck, which they don't.
                          The point is, those obsessed with Macs forget the Mac has 5% of the market share, and the data center world runs on Windows/Linux/Unix.

                          Mac is taking a lesson from Bill Gates, by obsoleting their old hardware to the new OS. Upgrade, upgrade, upgrade.
                          Or.. give them the finger (same as Vista/7) and don't upgrade at all.

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                            #33
                            Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

                            http://www.nvidia.com/object/tesla_c...solutions.html

                            Macs got nothing on those.

                            Comment


                              #34
                              Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

                              Originally posted by KeriJane
                              But really! If you want to run your old applications and use your old printers, shouldn't you be sticking with your old OS? At least wait until any updates might be released?
                              That's the point here. If you stick with old OS X, new stuff you NEED won't run anymore (10.3 is useless for newer iPods, won't run the latest Java, a ton of apps won't install on it, etc., etc.). Sure, your can stick with your old OS, but the OS becomes useless when you can't install trivial stuff like the latest Java (in my case, I wasn't able to put FrostWire on the machine for them because it needed the newest Java).
                              Last edited by weirdlookinguy; 09-02-2009, 06:40 PM.

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                                #35
                                Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

                                Originally posted by 370forlife
                                Well, that IS a very nice computer.

                                But the one I found a price on was $3100 for a single-processor i7.
                                Nice enough, but how is that "better than a Mac Pro"?

                                For comparison, a dual-processor 8-core Mac Pro with the Nehalem Xeons starts at roughly $3300.

                                So, unless I see some Tesla systems with the Skulltrail board in them I'd just as soon stick with a Mac Pro.

                                BTW, try to find a Mac Pro that you can examine closely for a bit. As in take a look inside. The metal work is better than Lian-Li, not a loose cable in sight and it is very, very well done.


                                Hi bgavin!
                                OK, I lose. Oops.
                                So what?
                                Betcha those quad-CPU servers cost a bit more than a Mac Pro. Probably the dual ones do too. If I'm wrong again? Oh well. I suspect I'll survive.

                                Believe it or not, I'm NOT "obsessed with Macs".
                                When someone builds a BETTER computer at the same or lower price than a Mac, AND runs something like Mac OSX AND has style and nice construction.... (or maybe if MS comes out with the best OS EVER)
                                Well, then, I'm all ears!

                                But for now, I'm not going back to Windows, I lack the talent and inclination to use Linux effectively and I like Macs style and philosophy.
                                So there.


                                Those Tesla computers DO look nice, and I like the name.... (Tesla=greatest Genius EVER)
                                Keri

                                PS. Making an OS that works on ancient hardware does NOT make it better.... just more compromises.
                                The More You Learn The Less You Know!

                                Comment


                                  #36
                                  Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

                                  Well I build some pretty nice Linux computers that come with everything set up, including Compiz. Turn it on and go.

                                  Nobody's out to get you Keri. We just like poking fun at Apple when they screw up. We fully expect it to come back when M$ screws up. You just happen to be the local Mac fan.

                                  Oh, and the deal with those Tesla computers (druel) is that they do processing on GPU's, and have literally banks of GPU's lined up. Major processing power there, more than any Mac ever could hope to equal. Of course it's not x86, it's Nvidia CUDA, but still...
                                  A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.

                                  Comment


                                    #37
                                    Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

                                    Originally posted by KeriJane
                                    Well, that IS a very nice computer.

                                    But the one I found a price on was $3100 for a single-processor i7.
                                    Nice enough, but how is that "better than a Mac Pro"?

                                    For comparison, a dual-processor 8-core Mac Pro with the Nehalem Xeons starts at roughly $3300.
                                    The nvidia tesla does not have a processor like a Intel or AMD. It uses nvidia graphics cards as processors using CUDA. Thats why the baseline tesla has 960 cores.

                                    Comment


                                      #38
                                      Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

                                      Here's a shining example of that superior OS-

                                      http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09...ash_downgrade/
                                      Ludicrous gibs!

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                                        #39
                                        Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

                                        I figured this was relevant
                                        http://bayimg.com/naDaoAAcL

                                        Comment


                                          #40
                                          Re: Another Example of Apple's Superior Operating System

                                          Wouldn't xp support ALL parallel printers? Usb things without drivers don't work, I figure SOME driver will work for any parallel printer if forced. If it used some ancient card for connectivity then yes, XP might have obsoleted it.

                                          I only had 64 bit driver issues for a few things and only 1 thing ever didn't work, my cheap comcast webcam. Some drivers I had to finagle.

                                          I'm sure with OSx86 going on a lot of the stuff not supported by Snow Leopard can be hacked in and that people are working on it. It is BSD(ish) after all so I bet if said hardware has a user base it will get supported. Still, if you upgrade and now your apps break its a really irritating experience. You have to set all of your settings and plugins up again if they even have a newer version supporting SL. To pay $$ to have your system fucked up is a dick move on apple's part. Did they even warn anyone about it?

                                          As for comparing quad xenons to mac pros, nobody is even considering the build your own option. An OEM server is going to be more than a mac pro, its better made and has server things (beefed up VRM, HDD cabes w/ temp sensors, rack mount, etc). Mac's target audience is comprised of yuppies, hipsters and people pursuing liberal arts degrees. It needs to be shiny and neat looking rather than durable, cheap, or useful.

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