Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

[Agent24]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

A lot of PSUs like that use 200v rated capacitors for primary filtering. I don't know why they've used 280v ones. It should be fine, as long as your rectified line voltage doesn't exceed their rating.

A slightly higher capacity probably won't be an issue, but you will get a larger inrush current because of them. This will mean more strain on the NTC thermistor, which may or may not need to be up-rated at the same time. The fuse may also need a slight increase in value. Depends on how tight they've got their tolerances. For a PSU that cheap though, there probably isn't much margin already.

In any case, that looks like quite a horrible PSU, and there may well be additional reasons why its hold-up time could be quite low, such as the secondary output capacitors, the circuitry for generating the POWER_GOOD signal, and maybe even the 5vSB rail.

[jarvis7]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Thank you sir , i won't get the caps changed then

Thanks

[RukyCon]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Hello , i have a quick question,

This is a 10$ power supply

https://imgur.com/a/mBqtW

that has 2x 330uf 280v rated primary caps , will replacing them with 2 x 470 uf 200v "be safe" for both caps and PSU ? as replacement caps have lower voltage rating and will this power supply be able to handle higher capacitance ? i get 220v mains


just trying to experiment/test hold up time and see compatibility with my inverter switch over time.. it is in a basic spare old system , used occasionally

Thanks

As long as the two primary capacitors are rated for 200v or more then you should be ok.

[Stefan Payne]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

That's utter garbage. No Pi Coil and only one cap per rail on the secondary...

I'd take a better quality unit for those experiments....

[jarvis7]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Thank you Rukycon and Stefan Payne sir

[dmill89]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

HEC Orion HP585D:


Label (ah lies, 585W seems a tad optimistic):


Looking at the PCB it looks like this is really a 300W unit:


Overall doesn't look bad for a 300W, too bad they label it as a 585W.


Primary:
-Apparently they think input filtering is overrated, as there is none.
-The bridge rectifier is a GBU406 (4A 600V)
-primary caps are 2X 680uf 200V CapXon
-looks like a single-forward design with a 10NK60Z (10A 600V) MOSFET and a 2N60L (2A 600V)for the 5VSB


Secondary
-P40NF03L (40A 30V)
-MBR3045PT (30A 45V)
-MBR20100CT (20A 100V)
-STPS4045CW (40A 45V)
-Caps mostly Teapo with a few Su-scons thrown in,



With a 138W (12V 4A, 5V 10A, 3.3V 12A) load the voltages are pretty solid (12.25V, 5.0657V, and 3.2962V) it draws 194W for an efficiency of 71%. Granted this isn't a heavy load for this unit, but definitely performed better than some similarly priced units from the same era.





Soldering could be better, but not as bad as some "budget units":



Overall the only real "issues" seem to be the lack of input filtering, and blatantly false wattage rating.

[jarvis7]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

ok so i went to a used PC shop , specifically looking for OEM Delta units , with hopes of it being a very good power supply like all deltas are famous for and later recapping it with Japanese caps .. i saw 1 Dell Lite on unit at 1 store , 1 HP Hipro unit , and the third one turned out to be HP Delta unit

but after buying i am having doubts , is it a good Power supply ? it probably weighs less than half as my Bestec 250 12Z , not sure if any parts have been taken out.. doesn't seem to have that big transformer that my Bestec has

rather than getting Bestec repaired , i bought this for 8$ with very high hopes of it's excellent design , recapping it with Jap caps later and expecting it to last very long time ,

here are the pics , any comments ? should i try getting it replaced with HIpro unit ?

15A on 12v

[Dan81]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

ok so i went to a used PC shop , specifically looking for OEM Delta units , with hopes of it being a very good power supply like all deltas are famous for and later recapping it with Japanese caps .. i saw 1 Dell Lite on unit , 1 HP Hipro unit , and the third one turned out to be HP Delta unit ..

but after having bought i am having doubts , is it a good Power supply ? it weighs only half as my Bestec 250 12Z , not sure if any parts have been taken out.. doesn't seem to have that big transformer that my Bestec has

rather than getting Bestec repaired , i bought this for 8$ with very high hopes of it's excellent design , recapping it with Jap caps later and expecting it to last very long time ,

here are the pics , what do you guys think

Model is GPS - 300 AB -100 , with 15A on 12v

It's good. Some Deltas might weigh a bit less than a Bestec but nevertheless they usually do their rated power 100%.

[jarvis7]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

It's good. Some Deltas might weigh a bit less than a Bestec but nevertheless they usually do their rated power 100%.

Thank you very much sir for replying ,

i am posting more pics , please have a look ..

It doesn't seem to have a fuse , No NTC Thermistor , and No yellow X cap ?

and on searching around here , it seems to be based on 2 transistor design ? the one that has Critical 5vsb cap, overvoltage probable like older 12E bestec had ?

Glue ok ?

Should i try to ask/pay extra to store owner to swap with the HP Hipro unit ? don't know the model , likely from the same time period of this delta

I measured voltages they looked alright though , my bestec 250 12Z which i posted about in the other sticky thread was also giving correct voltage on 5vsb

thanks a ton

[RukyCon]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

That grey part in between the common mode chokes is most likely a X2 capacitor.

[Wester547]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

and on searching around here , it seems to be based on 2 transistor design ? the one that has Critical 5vsb cap, like older 12E bestec had ?

Yup, Delta (and their Chinese subsidiary Newton Power, who they owned 94% of until 2010) continued to use the 2-transistor +5VSB design in many of their PSUs (and with bad cap brands at that) for many years after Hipro and Lite-on quit that malpractice.

Glue ok ?

Nope. That brown glue has a bad formula so it becomes conductive over time and causes all sorts of issues.

Should i try to ask/pay extra to store owner to swap with the HP Hipro unit ? don't know the model , likely from the same time period of this delta

Well, if you remove the glue in this unit and recap it, I don't see why it would give you any problems. If the PSU has a sleeve bearing fan, that might need some preemptive maintenance too.

[Stefan Payne]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

rather than getting Bestec repaired , i bought this for 8$ with very high hopes of it's excellent design , recapping it with Jap caps later and expecting it to last very long time ,

here are the pics , any comments ? should i try getting it replaced with HIpro unit ?

15A on 12v

It looks rather old. Like something you'd use for an older K7 system...

15A on +12V is just 180W, though for a system that's only used for Office and stuff like that, without a graphics card, it might be OK.

Glue ok ?

Nope, glue is bad. Has to be removed completely.

Should i try to ask/pay extra to store owner to swap with the HP Hipro unit ? don't know the model , likely from the same time period of this delta

I don't know.
Depends on what the label says and if it has more 'juice' on +12V or not.

If it has, yeah I would. Because modern Systems only use +12V.

But for 8$ I'd just get the other one or rather the one with the most on +12V...

[dmill89]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

A very filthy (apparently the owner of the PC this came from was a smoker) In-Win Powerman IP-S350CQ2-0:


Primary:
-GBU806 (8A 600V) Bridge rectifier
-2X K4106 (12A 500V) MOSFETs
-2X OST 560uf 200V
-input filter (2 coils, 2 X-caps, 4 Y-Caps, MOV)

Secondary:
-SBL3045CT (30A 45V)
-SBL3045CT (30A 45V)
-TPS30100CT (30A 100V)
-more OST caps



Voltages with a 138W (12V 4A, 5V 10A, 3.3V 12A) load 12.175V, 4.8685V, 3.3003V :




Power draw of 175W for an efficiency of 78.9% not bad for an old non-PFC unit:

[dmill89]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Antec Basiq BP350 (FSP):


Label:


A look inside:


Primary:
-GBU 806 (8A 600V) Bridge Rectifier
-2X D13009K (12A 400V)
-2X OST 470uf 200V caps


Secondary:
-unfortunately I can't make out any of the markings on the secondary rectifiers without taking the unit apart (removing the secondary heatsink) since they are between the heatsink and coils and partially covered with silicone glue, but being an FSP I'm sure they're up to the rated specs.
-caps are mostly Teapo with a couple OSTs thrown in.


Voltages with a 138W (12V 4A, 5V 10A, 3.3V 12A) load: 12.384V, 4.9908V, 3.3298V




The unit draws 178W for an efficiency of 77.5%:

[goodpsusearch]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

You are crossloading the units with that home made load tester. This, or your multimeter readings are incorrect. Please check the battery.

[dmill89]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

You are crossloading the units with that home made load tester. This, or your multimeter readings are incorrect. Please check the battery.

It's not a home made tester, it was made by SeaSonic (pics below) back in 2003 when 5v/3.3v heavy loads were common. Admittedly I need to build/buy a more "modern" tester at some point, but these are all older units (some of them are still in production, but they are far from "modern" designs) so such a tester shouldn't be too far off from loads that would have been fairly common when these PSUs were new (though on the In-Win the 10A load on the 15A rated 5V rail is fairly high compared to the Antec and Orion with 20A and 36A rated 5V rails so that may explain that rail dipping a bit on the In-Win compared to the other rails, though it is still in spec).










I also put a new battery in my multi-meter (Extech MM570) and re-tested, and tested with another meter (a cheap Harbor-Freight Cen-Tech P37772, much less accurate than the Extech), all results are within .1v of the originals:

In-Win Powerman IP-S350CQ2-0, Extech MM570 with new batt: 12.18V, 4.8742V, 3.3014V
In-Win Powerman IP-S350CQ2-0, Cen-Tech P37772: 12.10V, 4.83V, 3.26V

Antec BP350 Extech MM570 with new batt: 12.398V, 5.036V, 3.3268V
Antec BP350 Cen-Tech P37772: 12.31V, 4.94V, 3.29V

[dmill89]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

You are crossloading the units with that home made load tester. This, or your multimeter readings are incorrect. Please check the battery.

It's not a home made tester, it was made by SeaSonic (pics below) back in 2003 when 5v/3.3v heavy loads were common. Admittedly I need to build/buy a more "modern" tester at some point, but these are all older units (some of them are still in production, but they are far from "modern" designs) so such a tester shouldn't be too far off from loads that would have been fairly common when these PSUs were new (though on the In-Win the 10A load on the 15A rated 5V rail is fairly high compared to the Antec and Orion with 20A and 36A rated 5V rails so that may explain that rail dipping a bit on the In-Win compared to the other rails, though it is still in spec).
I also put a new battery in my multi-meter (Extech MM570) and re-tested, and tested with another meter (a cheap Harbor-Freight Cen-Tech P37772, much less accurate than the Extech), all results are within .1v of the originals:

In-Win Powerman IP-S350CQ2-0, Extech MM570 with new batt: 12.18V, 4.8742V, 3.3014V
In-Win Powerman IP-S350CQ2-0, Cen-Tech P37772: 12.10V, 4.83V, 3.26V

Antec BP350 Extech MM570 with new batt: 12.398V, 5.036V, 3.3268V
Antec BP350 Cen-Tech P37772: 12.31V, 4.94V, 3.29V

Out of curiosity, I hooked these units up to an actual motherboard, for comparison here are those 2 units plugged into a motherboard running Memtest (65W TDP CPU and a GPU that is basically idling, plus keyboard, mouse, and USB DVD-RW drive, pulling around 100W from AC, so 75-80W load given the efficiency of these units)

In-Win IP-S350CQ2-0: 11.997V, 5.0518V, 3.3405V





Antec BP350:12.089V, 5.1283V, 3.3509V





Also note, in these tests and my previous ones the intent was not to do a through load test, but simply to see if the units were able to stay in ATX spec.

[goodpsusearch]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

I was right then, the Seasonic load tester is crossloading them.

Yes, these are all older psus, most of them half bridge units, but they could have been reconfigured in later revisions to be more compatible with the newest pcs that draw most of the power from 12V. And that's what happens most of the time.

[momaka]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

HEC Orion HP585D

Ha! I just thought about taking pictures of one of these yesterday (with the intent of posting it here). I guess you beat me to it. Mine is pretty much identical to what you show (if not identical - minus the dust ).

Label (ah lies, 585W seems a tad optimistic)
...
Looking at the PCB it looks like this is really a 300W unit

Yes label is very "optimistic" indeed. In fact, calling the unit over-rated probably wouldn't be inappropriate here.

These PSUs are indeed capable of 300-350W max. The ThermalTake TR2-430W (also goes by TR2-430NP or XP550NP) is this same exact PSU, but with all of the input filtering installed. It was a fairly popular budget PSU priced at $40 back when it came out, but you could often find it for $20-30 with rebates. Many reviews found that's it's really only a 350W unit at best, though. So 300-350W is correct.

I got mine (ThermalTake TR2-430W) for $25 back in 2007 or so. Came with a 5-year warranty. It's still functional today with its original caps.

Anyways, these Orion PSUs are also okay, only except for this part:

-Apparently they think input filtering is overrated, as there is none.

That's really their biggest downfall. The choice of caps is also not good, but they do seem to last okay for what they are.

... and a 2N60L (2A 600V)for the 5VSB

And it's also a 2-transistor 5VSB circuit with a "critical" cap. Make sure to replace it if you're going to use the PSU a lot. Although I haven't heard of these failing like the Bestec ATX-250-12E's, I wouldn't risk trying to find out.

With a 138W (12V 4A, 5V 10A, 3.3V 12A) load the voltages are pretty solid (12.25V, 5.0657V, and 3.2962V) it draws 194W for an efficiency of 71%.

That's a pretty low efficiency. But then again, this unit has a linear 3.3V rail, so that's probably why. *I think* the 3.3V is derived from the same transformer tap as the 5V rail like many cheap PSUs, but it seems to have its own rectifier.

So with a lighter load on the 3.3V rail, and heavier 12V load, I think we may see the efficiency of this unit stick around in the mid-70% range and maybe peak in the high 70's.

Overall the only real "issues" seem to be the lack of input filtering, and blatantly false wattage rating.

Exactly.
With good caps, this is a pretty solid PSU. Member 370forlife recapped/upgraded a PSU like this a while back (many years ago now), and it looked awesome afterwards. Should still be in the PSU section of the forums somewhere as a standalone thread, for those curious to look.

ok so i went to a used PC shop , specifically looking for OEM Delta units , with hopes of it being a very good power supply like all deltas are famous for and later recapping it with Japanese caps .. i saw 1 Dell Lite on unit at 1 store , 1 HP Hipro unit , and the third one turned out to be HP Delta unit

but after buying i am having doubts , is it a good Power supply ? it probably weighs less than half as my Bestec 250 12Z , not sure if any parts have been taken out.. doesn't seem to have that big transformer that my Bestec has

It's a good PSU and will do its labeled ratings.

rather than getting Bestec repaired , i bought this for 8$ with very high hopes of it's excellent design , recapping it with Jap caps later and expecting it to last very long time ,

Both this and the Bestec would last a very long time with good caps. It's just that the Bestec has some of that conductive glue, which needs to be removed.

On that note, be careful with LiteOn units, as some of them tend to have the conductive glue as well. HiPro and Delta usually don't.

15A on 12v

Good enough for a Core 2 Duo with a small discreet GPU or Core 2 Quad with onboard / very low-power discreet GPU.

It doesn't seem to have a fuse , No NTC Thermistor , and No yellow X cap ?

I'm positive there is a fuse somewhere. Probably not in the "usual" spot where you'd find one, though. Thermistor should be there too. Most likely either on a separate board or under those input chokes.
The X-caps are there - they are just gray.

and on searching around here , it seems to be based on 2 transistor design ? the one that has Critical 5vsb cap, overvoltage probable like older 12E bestec had ?

It might be. I can't tell from your pictures, but it probably is.

Just recap it with good Japanese caps, and it will be fine. The dreaded 2-transistor 5VSB is actually not that bad with good caps.

Glue ok ?

YES.
Although, this does look like the conductive glue a little bit, I can assure you it is not. Delta uses a white silicone glue that tends to turn beige/yellow over time. But it does NOT go conductive, so it's fine.

Should i try to ask/pay extra to store owner to swap with the HP Hipro unit ? don't know the model , likely from the same time period of this delta

Nah, I wouldn't pay extra. The HiPro is probably built just as well.

Nope. That brown glue has a bad formula so it becomes conductive over time and causes all sorts of issues.

Nope, glue is bad. Has to be removed completely.

Nope! Have a look again.
It's silicone glue and not the brown conductive stuff. You can tell by the round shapes too. The conductive glue tends to look more like vomit.

It looks rather old. Like something you'd use for an older K7 system...

Close.
These PSUs are from the late K7 (12V-based) and many early to mid K8 systems (along with late s487 Pentium 4). They are quite capable of powering a more modern PC, though.

[jarvis7]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Thank you veryyyyyyyy much Momaka, Wester547 , Dan81 , Stephan Payne , Rukycon sir



i went to shop to see if return is possible , but shop was closed..

basically my only major concern and expectation is , will this Delta GPS 300 safely shutdown if any part fails/stops working ? all i expect is a very reliable design that won't damage motherboard , Ram or any other PC components if something goes wrong , something like Bestec 12E did with it's 2 transistor design ? .. i posted close up of ICs in those Pics..

IF it is fully reliable , i'll keep it and recap it later..
Dell Lite on unit was L 305 P

short on time right now ..

Thank you all very much