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Old laptop Review (well, RANT): Lenovo Thinkpad T60

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    Old laptop Review (well, RANT): Lenovo Thinkpad T60

    I recently bought a very low use Lenovo Thinkpad T60 off a buddy, and this post contains my opinions of the unit. As a preface, I will note that I am not mad at the guy who sold it to me, nothing personal (since he is an inactive member here).

    Honestly, given all the awards and hype thinkpads tend to have, I was honestly disappointed.

    I'll start with what I did like. That being the thinklight (LED light in the lid, standard equipment for thinkpads since the dinosaurs) and the durable construction. Otherwise, I was not impressed anyplace else.

    I will compare it to the Dell Latitude D620/D630, which was a comparable offering from dell that I also happen to be very familiar with.

    The majority of my complaints is the way the lenovo treats hardware options. This unit is clearly not a top of the line unit; the only things above the base options is a slightly better GPU (a rinky dink Radeon X1300, better ones had X1400) and a C2D T7200 (which is nice, yay x64). Stock, it had an oddball 60GB 7200RPM SATA drive; being 7200RPM is nice but only 60GB? Sure, it was the early days of SATA but I would have expected a minimum of 80GB. No Bluetooth (optional apparently). No fingerprint reader (not a deal breaker). The LCD is the biggest letdown; while it is a fullscreen unit, I was expecting a 5:4 display of at least 1280x1024 (I have a Dell Latitude D610 with the same size panel at an even higher resolution yet)... what did they put in? A puny 1024x768! 4:3! What is this, 2003? It's a 2006/2007 model, seriously. I thought that by then they'd have gone up in resolution like everything else I've seen of the era... Nope.

    But now for the complaints that weren't really due to the particular options of the laptop. It mainly is the way that they seem to "red marker" things that don't happen to be used on the particular unit. In this case, they left room for a 3G card. But unlike dell, who always leaves the antennae (usually), slot, and sim socket present whether you get the card or not (at least on latitudes and their derivatives), lenovo left all of them off. No PCIe slot or anything. They left the location on the mainboard unpopulated. While I don't use 3G cards on these things, I like using internal USB holders for said slots so I can make my logitech unifying adapters internal.

    Speaking of USB, here's something else they did that pisses me off: They nuked the USB part of the wifi's PCIe slot. I am running an SLIC'd and whitelist removed BIOS, so I should be able to run a decent wifi card (in my case, an extra Intel 7260AC), right? Right... but the internal USB on the slot, nope, dead. No bueno. On all of my dell latitudes with PCIe, the USB is live on all the slots. No whitelist either. Oh, by the way, Dell always gives one 3 antenna's for wifi (even if one isn't used for the card installed). Lenovo only gave me two. Why???

    Still on the topic of USB, lenovo is lacking in the ports department. Only 3 USB ports. Dell's 14" offerings have had 4 since the D610, which was a good year or two before the T60 came out. Also, no serial port or parallel port. Most 14" business laptops of that vintage had one or the other. I know, usually not an issue, but if you need it, what are ya gonna do? Burn one of the 3 measly USB ports? Yes, you can use a Hub, but that's a band aid fix IMHO.

    The thing is also dicky with drivers... while it's not as bad as a couple sony vaio's I have of that chipset (those are paperweights thanks to that), it's still bad enough that I couldn't get arch linux to run on it well. I was able to get it to a CLI with some kernel parameter trickery, but for some stupid reason, despite all my tries, the farking backlight stays off. the actual pixels do thier job, but the backlight stays off and adjusting the brightness does nothing (although the OSD for brightness in GNOME does pop up). I've rarely had stupid crap like that with my dell latitudes, and when I did, it wasn't anything dell did (usually nvidia driver pains).

    Other than the think light and the fact it can do both PCMCIA and expresscard, I don't see anything of it has over the Dell Latitude D620/D630. Build quality is solid on both of them, both have decent keyboards.... or not. The T60's felt a hair better, but the up arrow key is finicky if you press it from the bottom. it depresses but the key doesn't register. Did they even test the prototype?

    So, I really don't see how The T60 got editor's choice back then. It was just a faster thinkpad. Nothing new. The Latitude line, on the other hand, had a bevy of new features (ALS, wifi signal meter, lots of expansion potential, etc.). To me, it's no comparison.

    Yeah, I know I probably pissed off a few thinkpad fanboys, but if I did, well, you can have em. I don't care for them (at least the ones made after 2003, that's when Dell D series began).
    Last edited by ratdude747; 12-13-2015, 01:17 AM.
    sigpic

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    #2
    Re: Old laptop Review (well, RANT): Lenovo Thinkpad T60

    For the T60 the barebones stock display was 1024x768, but it will run a 1400x1050 panel or even the coveted 2048x1536 "FlexView" IPS but that was rare and expensive and it's hard to find nowadays.

    I do agree that it's a bit of a pain to get all the drivers on it, but it is a nice reliable machine (unless it's got the nvidia graphics ).

    There are pros and cons to both laptops, you can't really compare it build-wise to the D620 or D630 as those have a widescreen LCD so there are different design decisions dictated by the form factor. That said, i do like the magnesium construction of the D620/630 more, and their ease of servicing. The Thinkpads are a huge pain in the rear to take apart.
    Originally posted by PeteS in CA
    Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
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      #3
      Re: Old laptop Review (well, RANT): Lenovo Thinkpad T60

      the T series are the laptop equiv of a company car,
      they arent supposed to be high-spec, just built to take some handling - although not to the level of a tough-book obviously.

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Old laptop Review (well, RANT): Lenovo Thinkpad T60

        Originally posted by stj View Post
        the T series are the laptop equiv of a company car,
        they arent supposed to be high-spec, just built to take some handling - although not to the level of a tough-book obviously.
        And so was the D620 and D630... Just saying.
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          #5
          Re: Old laptop Review (well, RANT): Lenovo Thinkpad T60

          i had a D620 and wouldnt say that about it - flimsy plastic crap!

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            #6
            Re: Old laptop Review (well, RANT): Lenovo Thinkpad T60

            Originally posted by stj View Post
            i had a D620 and wouldnt say that about it - flimsy plastic crap!
            They have magnesium bases and lids... So no.
            sigpic

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              #7
              Re: Old laptop Review (well, RANT): Lenovo Thinkpad T60

              Originally posted by stj View Post
              the T series are the laptop equiv of a company car,
              they arent supposed to be high-spec, just built to take some handling - although not to the level of a tough-book obviously.
              ^This is a lot of it, you have to remember who the target market for these are, businesses who are likely never going to upgrade anything other than possibly the RAM/HDD (they care about the ease of repair/maintenance, but generally not adding additional "features" after purchase) , and the vast majority don't give a rats ass about display quality (one of my pet-peeves with my work laptops is that my company always orders the cheapest lowest-resolution display available). Likewise a 60GB HDD (which I believe was the lowest option and most shipped with either 80GB or 120GB), may seem tiny even for the era, but most companies ordering these are going to store everything on a network drive, so the HDD only needs enough capacity for the OS and drivers (and perhaps a couple software applications that require local installation). Their primary concern is that a laptop is reliable and can handle employees beating the hell out of it for 3-5 years (obviously not all employees beat up their laptop, but in any large company there will be plenty who do).

              This is why they get the awards, most of the "drawbacks "are things that their customer base (and often those writing the reviews) doesn't really care about.

              That being said a lot of the items you mentioned can definitely be annoying to someone who personally owns such a Laptop (especially the now likely 3rd. or 4th. owner who may actually want to upgrade it). If you get one that had most of the options to begin with you often have decent upgrade options, but if you buy a "stripped down" version, they are pretty limited.

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                #8
                Re: Old laptop Review (well, RANT): Lenovo Thinkpad T60

                i know several people with a T series just for running dos and xp for working on cars.
                they arent going to take a decent laptop out to the side of the road!

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                  #9
                  Re: Old laptop Review (well, RANT): Lenovo Thinkpad T60

                  Originally posted by ratdude747 View Post
                  They have magnesium bases and lids... So no.
                  the problem was the bit around the keyboard getting cracked.

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                    #10
                    Re: Old laptop Review (well, RANT): Lenovo Thinkpad T60

                    Originally posted by stj View Post
                    the problem was the bit around the keyboard getting cracked.
                    I've personally never had that crack on any of mine... I did blow a cable once, but that was an excuse to swap to a fingerprint reader palmrest.
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                      #11
                      Re: Old laptop Review (well, RANT): Lenovo Thinkpad T60

                      Originally posted by stj View Post
                      i know several people with a T series just for running dos and xp for working on cars.
                      they arent going to take a decent laptop out to the side of the road!
                      Think it's more like you aren't going to take a cheap ass Inspiron out to the side of the road. Thinkpad\Latitude\Toughbook would be the choice just for the fact that they aren't going to be destroyed from a drop off a hood.

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                        #12
                        Re: Old laptop Review (well, RANT): Lenovo Thinkpad T60

                        Originally posted by Compgeke View Post
                        Think it's more like you aren't going to take a cheap ass Inspiron out to the side of the road. Thinkpad\Latitude\Toughbook would be the choice just for the fact that they aren't going to be destroyed from a drop off a hood.
                        A toughbook, you are right, it would survive being dropped off a hood. But even a latitude or thinkpad would not.

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                          #13
                          Re: Old laptop Review (well, RANT): Lenovo Thinkpad T60

                          Originally posted by shovenose View Post
                          A toughbook, you are right, it would survive being dropped off a hood. But even a latitude or thinkpad would not.
                          You got that right....
                          Things I've fixed: anything from semis to crappy Chinese $2 radios, and now an IoT Dildo....

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                            #14
                            Re: Old laptop Review (well, RANT): Lenovo Thinkpad T60

                            Originally posted by goontron View Post
                            Originally posted by shovenose View Post
                            A toughbook, you are right, it would survive being dropped off a hood. But even a latitude or thinkpad would not.
                            You got that right....
                            Unless they land really poorly (i.e. open face first on the LCD) a Thinkpad T/R/W series or Latitude D-series/E6xxx series should handle that just fine, especially if it has an SSD (though most of these models have accelerometers and park the HDD when a fall is detected, so even an HDD might be ok). A fall from the hood of a car/truck (assuming we're not talking semis) is no worse than a fall from chest height onto a tile/concrete floor which happens to these all the time in the business world (seen it multiple times at work, most of the time it just results in a scratch/nick/ding, and sometimes a new HDD for the ones with mechanical HDDs).
                            Last edited by dmill89; 12-13-2015, 11:37 PM.

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                              #15
                              Re: Old laptop Review (well, RANT): Lenovo Thinkpad T60

                              I once accidentally dropped a Latitude D400 onto a concrete driveway. My bag was unzipped and I neglected to strap it up... and oops! The magnesium belly pan (the first model to have it, the D600/D800 used plastic with a Magnesium internal frame) scuffed a bit, no other damage. Had the battery charge circuit not fried (and I still had a good reason to troubleshoot it) it would still be ticking (albeit on a 2nd mobo, that happened before the fall).
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                                #16
                                Re: Old laptop Review (well, RANT): Lenovo Thinkpad T60

                                I've also dropped a non-toughbook off a car: my T410. Stuck it on the roof to go unlock the house and forgot it was there. No damage other than a couple nice scrapes and another chipped corner.

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                                  #17
                                  Re: Old laptop Review (well, RANT): Lenovo Thinkpad T60

                                  I'm surprised. At work we still sell d630s (only really cheap under the computers for the community program) and they come back all the time after being dropped. The hard drive is always bad and the hinges break.

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                                    #18
                                    Re: Old laptop Review (well, RANT): Lenovo Thinkpad T60

                                    Dell Latitude d630 --> prone to breaking hinges confirmed

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                                      #19
                                      Re: Old laptop Review (well, RANT): Lenovo Thinkpad T60

                                      Originally posted by goodpsusearch View Post
                                      Dell Latitude d630 --> prone to breaking hinges confirmed
                                      Dropped mine a couple times while open. Hinges not broken. They're a bit wobbly though (I have a pair or two I can pull from my bin of dead laptops)
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                                        #20
                                        Re: Old laptop Review (well, RANT): Lenovo Thinkpad T60

                                        Originally posted by ratdude747 View Post
                                        Dropped mine a couple times while open. Hinges not broken. They're a bit wobbly though (I have a pair or two I can pull from my bin of dead laptops)
                                        half the time the slop is in the screen (annoying) but half the time the screws that hold the hinges into the base are loose and that's an easy fix.

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