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Abit KX7-333

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    #21
    Re: Abit KX7-333

    I recommend you to put one small heatsink on the Southbridge, they are low power chips but they get kind for hot, hope the board works perfectly after the recap and you enjoy it for many years

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      #22
      Re: Abit KX7-333

      Who is fixing it?

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        #23
        Re: Abit KX7-333

        The guy from this website.

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          #24
          Re: Abit KX7-333

          Originally posted by Stefan Payne View Post
          And that makes the Teapo bad because of?!

          First: Ultra Low ESR Caps are also rated for about 2000h of lifetime.
          As are those Teapo SC, 1000-2000h the old ones, up to 3000h the newer ones. That board is from the beginning of the 2000s.
          WHY should they be OK after 15 years?!
          Because almost without exception, every other *good* series with an aqueous electrolyte does indeed last just fine after 15 years. Take Rubycon YXG for example. Furthermore, take 8x11.5 6.3v 1000uF Rubycon YXG which is miniaturized (in the sense that most 6.3v 1000 caps are at least 8x15), yet still test well within spec on old, late 90s Asus boards.
          Capacitors fail, deal with it.
          That's because of the chemical degredation due to chemical reactions (Water really likes to react with things!)
          Wrong. Capacitors usually don't fail. Well, at least, good ones don't.
          Because you have to take the specifications of the caps into account!!
          Is the SC series a 'high reliability' one? No of course not! It's the buttom of the line Teapo has.
          And YOU expect those things to last?!
          SC is up there at Teapo's high end. And the reason why Teapo is only willing to specify "up to 3000 hours" on the 10mm parts, and why they won't go even further like other manufacturers do with competing products with the same spec (as in 5,000 hours for 12.5mm) is because they know their product is garbage.
          And the failed nichicon you protect, but Teapo you flame?!
          Pretty hypocritical, don't you think?!
          Especially since we don't know how they were actually used, how hot they got, the ripple current they had to endure...
          Stop obfuscating the truth by drawing false analogies. Nichicon HM was a defective series. Nichicon HM/HN/HZ were reliable from at least 2007 and onwards... And if you want to start getting into specifics, late model Rubycon MCZ also had a relatively high rate of failure.
          Yes Teapo SC might fail more frequently than Nippon KZM, but the KZM also has far superior specs, the lifetime is somewhere of 3 times that of the Teapo SC series. SO yes, the KZM might fail less than Teapo. Obvious with those specs, isn't it?!
          [/quote]
          Let's face it, it's been more than 15 years since Rubycon released the first low-ESR caps on the market with an agressive aqueous electolyte that proved itself reliable. They invested money in the exploration of chemicals that would stabilize the electrolyte. The Taiwanese and Chinese manufacturers are either too lazy or too stupid to figure out how to do this themselves.

          Heck, they can't even produce quality butyric acid capacitors (Nichicon PW, Panasonic FC equivalent).

          What has happened is that most of the electronics have moved to polymer capacitors. But guess what? The polymer insulation material is expensive, and you can't use them economically where bulk capacitance is needed.

          And if you think that all polymer capacitors are created equally, then you're wrong:



          On the right is a Sanyo SEPC. On the left is a fake Chinese Samxon ULR. The polymer on the left has degraded to a point where the layers have fused together. Bits of polymer on the outer layer are flaking off on the outside.

          Teapo is junk, period.
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            #25
            Re: Abit KX7-333

            And how about the real Ulr? Are those good?
            Ohh, topcat then it will be OK, he has a lot of experience in this field.
            What do you think about kze and KY on an 8 years old PSU? They were at 60c or a bit more on a PC power and cooling silencer 750w
            Last edited by Drack; 02-01-2017, 11:31 AM.

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              #26
              Re: Abit KX7-333

              Wrong. Capacitors usually don't fail. Well, at least, good ones don't.
              Well, all electrolytics do share in the same wear-out mechanism and that's the drying out of the liquid electrolyte. No seal is impeccable and eventually that process does reach occurrence, but good electrolytics will last a very long time before they fail, assuming they are being used within their specifications. Or maybe they'll last forever and a day, but you know what I mean.

              SC is up there at Teapo's high end. And the reason why Teapo is only willing to specify "up to 3000 hours" on the 10mm parts, and why they won't go even further like other manufacturers do with competing products with the same spec (as in 5,000 hours for 12.5mm) is because they know their product is garbage.
              Well, Teapo do have some series that are specified for 5,000 hours (SX, SY, etc), but it's doubtful that any of the Chinese or Taiwanese brands are honestly rating their capacitors at 105°C. 105°F maybe, but 105°C?

              Stop obfuscating the truth by drawing false analogies. Nichicon HM was a defective series. Nichicon HM/HN/HZ were reliable from at least 2007 and onwards... And if you want to start getting into specifics, late model Rubycon MCZ also had a relatively high rate of failure.
              I don't think 2006+ MCZs and MBZs are defective so much as being pidgeon holed right next to red-hot MOSFETs and coils in SFF machines, and no aqueous capacitor or even liquid electrolytic will last very long under such thermal duress, especially under 24x7 conditions. MBZ and MCZ are only rated for 2,000 hours at 105°C (load life), which means they will dry out faster than those series rated for a longer load life. Panasonic FJ and FL do last longer under the same conditions, but they are rated up to 3,000 hours at 105°C IIRC (at least PCBONEZ stated way back when that FJ and FL are completely identical spec-for-spec).

              Let's face it, it's been more than 15 years since Rubycon released the first low-ESR caps on the market with an agressive aqueous electolyte that proved itself reliable. They invested money in the exploration of chemicals that would stabilize the electrolyte. The Taiwanese and Chinese manufacturers are either too lazy or too stupid to figure out how to do this themselves.
              The Taiwanese and Chinese brands are too cheap to bother or spend the proper resources on the intense and studious R&D needed to manufacture reliable products, and in tandem with their crap QC process, it's very unlikely they will ever consistently produce reliable electrolytics.

              Heck, they can't even produce quality butyric acid capacitors (Nichicon PW, Panasonic FC equivalent).
              I doubt the Chinese and Taiwanese brands buy or develop anything but H2O base electrolyte. Lactone and amide-based organic solvents would be far too expensive.

              And if you think that all polymer capacitors are created equally, then you're wrong:
              The biggest enemy of polymers, besides overvoltage, is humidity (moisture ingress, or the amount of water vapor in the atmosphere). Moisture will gradually cause the impedance to rise and the capacitance to drop, so the quality of the seal is critical. Polymers are less tolerant of moisture than liquid electrolytics.

              Teapo is junk, period.
              Well, their liquid electrolytics for sure (aside from those used in the voltage doubler). I don't know about their polymers.

              Originally posted by Drack View Post
              And how about the real Ulr? Are those good?
              Ohh, topcat then it will be OK, he has a lot of experience in this field.
              What do you think about kze and KY on an 8 years old PSU? They were at 60c or a bit more on a PC power and cooling silencer 750w
              KY and KZE are excellent series. They won't give you any trouble lest they were overheated. Genuine X-CON (Man Yue) ULR should be fine (Samxon is their electrolytic brand).

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                #27
                Re: Abit KX7-333

                Good to know that, my r9 270 uses all X-con Ulr.
                and I think the same as you, all caps can fail, even pannys FJ have fail to me, that the Japanese are more reliable is a whole different thing
                Last edited by Drack; 02-01-2017, 04:13 PM.

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                  #28
                  Re: Abit KX7-333

                  So...yeah. He got the MB today and told me something to the effect of: Yeah...your sh**'s f***ed up, mate. And I'm like: What up, bro? Sh** worked when I sent it to you! Fix that sh** and send me the bill!

                  Ok, so maybe he didn't use any bad words...but yeah. LOL

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                    #29
                    Re: Abit KX7-333

                    Originally posted by FFXIhealer View Post
                    So...yeah. He got the MB today and told me something to the effect of: Yeah...your sh**'s f***ed up, mate. And I'm like: What up, bro? Sh** worked when I sent it to you! Fix that sh** and send me the bill!
                    I didn't say that.....

                    ...I'm feeling nostalgic though, this the second Abit I've seen this week, I don't see many these days. The first was a grand old VP6.
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                      #30
                      Re: Abit KX7-333

                      Originally posted by Topcat View Post
                      I didn't say that.....
                      LOL I'm just jokin', bro. I'm sure everyone else knows you're more professional than that.

                      Originally posted by Topcat View Post
                      ...I'm feeling nostalgic though, this the second Abit I've seen this week, I don't see many these days. The first was a grand old VP6.
                      Hey, it's what was affordable to me back in 2002. I still have the original Athlon XP 1800+ Palomino sitting on my shelf and EVERY SINGLE PIN is ram-rod straight. Not like the Barton that's in that board right now. I got that off of E-bay and I had to straighten a good number of pins before I could "coax" it into that 482 Socket. That's why I also didn't want to take it back out. I also hate that it's AGP 4x...I wish it was AGP 8x. Then I could use a much more powerful card.

                      Here's hoping that MAYBE this X700 Pro will work once the board comes back, but I don't think it will. I think it's AGP 8x only and the board simply won't run it.

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                        #31
                        Re: Abit KX7-333

                        Yay for making a board support processors it was never intended to run, it was intended for t-breds & palominos... With manual settings, it posts at the correct speed, but the BIOS doesn't see the CPU as the XP 3000+ (Barton core) it should see it as....but 166FSB

                        Too bad its not the RAID version, it'd have the last release RAID firmware embedded now....I'm too good at this kind of stuff...



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                          #32
                          Re: Abit KX7-333

                          errr what?! how'd u get the bios to display your own custom strings "rebuilt by www.badcaps.net"? gotta teach me how to do that kind of bios hacking lol!

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                            #33
                            Re: Abit KX7-333

                            Did you....reflash my BIOS? LOL After all the time I took trying to re-flash it myself months ago! >.<

                            Guess a guy's gotta try to badge his work somehow. But I'm the guy that takes off car dealership badges if I buy a car.

                            When it had the Palomino in it, it said

                            Main Processor: AMD Athlon XP (tm) 1800+ 1531 MHz

                            But I've booted that Barton core into Windows XP and it says it's an Athlon XP 3000+ in the System Properties window, so I couldn't give two shits if the BIOS doesn't see an exact model number. Windows XP is what matters. LOL

                            I think the only thing the MB won't support on Barton cores is reading from the internal thermal diode of the CPU, but there's a thermal diode right underneath the CPU chip on the MB itself anyway.....so meh.

                            And another thing - all of the CPU settings in the BIOS all work at either 100MHz FSB or 133MHz FSB. Yet the chipset and the board was advertised as a 166 MHz FSB (333MHz total). But NOT ONE setting in the BIOS actually went past 133 unless you went MANUAL (as we did here) and pushed it to 166. The RAM is rated up to a 200MHs FSB, so it'll be stable.

                            I'm curious, what all changes did you make to the BIOS?
                            Last edited by FFXIhealer; 02-05-2017, 05:09 PM.

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                              #34
                              Re: Abit KX7-333

                              Changes to the BIOS include last revision firmware for the RAID model. The CPU microcode is still stock for the CN revision, and of course my spam. There were some 3rd party revisions to the CN that added microcode for the Barton core.....but there were known stability issues....so no...not using it. I actually built a lot of gaming systems using this board way back when.

                              These boards are tricky to flash, which is why you probably had issues....you don't know the secret..
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                                #35
                                Re: Abit KX7-333

                                Originally posted by Topcat View Post
                                Changes to the BIOS include last revision firmware for the RAID model. The CPU microcode is still stock for the CN revision, and of course my spam. There were some 3rd party revisions to the CN that added microcode for the Barton core.....but there were known stability issues....so no...not using it. I actually built a lot of gaming systems using this board way back when.

                                These boards are tricky to flash, which is why you probably had issues....you don't know the secret..
                                No, what I meant by "trouble" was I had to find the BIOS firmware, then I had to go back and FIND the Flash utility for it because I couldn't flash the BIOS without it... get them both put on a FLOPPY drive (which this system doesn't even have normally), find a working/compatible FLOPPY drive cable....make sure the drive was hooked up properly (cable not installed upside-down and stuff), re-enable Floppy support in the BIOS (because I disable floppy support on computers that don't actually have a floppy drive), make sure my Windows 98 startup disk got me into a stable DOS mode, THEN flash the BIOS.

                                Once I had all my ducks in a row, the flashing was the easy part. In fact, I already had the latest BIOS revision flashed on there already (6.00PG). Looks to me like you just wanted to put your own brand on there. LOL
                                Last edited by FFXIhealer; 02-05-2017, 07:20 PM.

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                                  #36
                                  Re: Abit KX7-333

                                  Originally posted by FFXIhealer View Post
                                  Looks to me like you just wanted to put your own brand on there. LOL
                                  Adds character. ...and HPT370/372 FW2.351....not that it really matters on this one.
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                                    #37
                                    Re: Abit KX7-333

                                    Originally posted by topcat View Post
                                    and of course my spam.
                                    lol
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                                      #38
                                      Re: Abit KX7-333

                                      Originally posted by mockingbird View Post
                                      And if you think that all polymer capacitors are created equally, then you're wrong

                                      On the right is a Sanyo SEPC. On the left is a fake Chinese Samxon ULR. The polymer on the left has degraded to a point where the layers have fused together. Bits of polymer on the outer layer are flaking off on the outside.
                                      I am not surprised. The shady Chinese manufacturers can take any decent design and make it worse. Being a polymer does not automatically mean it will be perfect.
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                                        #39
                                        Re: Abit KX7-333

                                        Originally posted by Topcat View Post
                                        Adds character. ...and HPT370/372 FW2.351....not that it really matters on this one.
                                        That's ok. I can put the old BIOS back on once I get it back.

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                                          #40
                                          Re: Abit KX7-333

                                          Originally posted by FFXIhealer View Post
                                          That's ok. I can put the old BIOS back on once I get it back.
                                          if it really bothers you that much, knock yourself out.
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