Badcaps.net Forum
Go Back   Badcaps Forums > Troubleshooting Hardware & Devices and Electronics Theory > Troubleshooting TVs and Video Sources
Register FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-26-2018, 12:08 PM   #1
Michale32086
Badcaps Veteran
 
Michale32086's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
City & State: St Augustine, FLORIDA
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 120VAC 60hz
I'm a: Hardcore Geek
Posts: 1,163
Default Samsung Plasma PN60E550D1F Power LED Blinks, Appears To Come On, No Display

I have a really nice and clean Sammy PN60E550D1F... Initial checks indicated it was a bad Main Video Board.. Bought a replacement board...

No luck..

Symptoms are:

At power up, the LED blinks several times and then goes out. Normal, I assume..

There are no Sammy StartUp tones..

When I push the power button a few times, I start to get ButtonPush tones..

On VS (marked) I get 210V that quickly counts down to 15V

The Control Board LED (marked) blinks slowly.. 3sec off, 7sec on... 3sec off, 7sec on...

That's all I have so far...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20180926_134654.jpg (536.7 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg 20180926_134658.jpg (512.6 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg 20180926_134703.jpg (407.8 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg 20180926_134706.jpg (492.5 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg 20180926_134700.jpg (423.3 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg 20180926_134712.jpg (522.0 KB, 5 views)
Michale32086 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2018, 09:10 AM   #2
Michale32086
Badcaps Veteran
 
Michale32086's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
City & State: St Augustine, FLORIDA
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 120VAC 60hz
I'm a: Hardcore Geek
Posts: 1,163
Default Re: Samsung Plasma PN60E550D1F Power LED Blinks, Appears To Come On, No Display

Following up on this..

Thinking it was a Main Board issue, I found a good deal on a replacement Main Board..

Still have the same problems..

I scrounged around in my parts and found replacement boards for the Y-SUS, the Power Board and the X-SUS... Replacing the boards gives me the exact same problem..

Haven't tried replacing the buffer boards off the Y-SUS, the buffer board off the X-SUS or the control board.. Looking around for those..

Anyone have a free clue???
Michale32086 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2018, 07:27 AM   #3
Michale32086
Badcaps Veteran
 
Michale32086's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
City & State: St Augustine, FLORIDA
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 120VAC 60hz
I'm a: Hardcore Geek
Posts: 1,163
Default Re: Samsung Plasma PN60E550D1F Power LED Blinks, Appears To Come On, No Display

Another followup on this.. I hate to keep beating the deceased equine, but this is too nice of a TV to let get away..

Anyways, I came across this thread

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showth...light=PN60E550

... that had a comment from MagicSmoke about testing this TV:

This is the same PSU as in my pn60e550. To test VS and VA volts you will need a 1K ohm 1/4 watt resistor.

Disconnect from AC before doing this

Remove power cable from x main and from main board for this test. Now on the X main side of power cable insert resistor in pins #4 VS-on and #6 5.3v,Logic board sends the signal through X main to PSU for VS on. Plug into AC.

This will turn on PSU and VS should come up and be stable at panel sticker rating. There are test points on PSU.

If they don't come up or are unstable then the PSU is at fault. If they are stable then further testing is required.

Edit... you can use a jumper wire instead of the resistor without damage, but VA & VS will read higher than normal volts.


I am not sure I am understanding this.. It seems like I am supposed to disconnect all the power cables, but if I do that, how will inserting a jumper in the X-SUS cable affect the PSU???

Thanx in advance for any assistance.
Michale32086 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 05:55 AM   #4
drussell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
City & State: Calgary, AB
My Country: Canada
Line Voltage: 120/240V, 60 Hz
I'm a: Hardcore Geek
Posts: 139
Default Re: Samsung Plasma PN60E550D1F Power LED Blinks, Appears To Come On, No Display

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michale32086 View Post
I am not sure I am understanding this.. It seems like I am supposed to disconnect all the power cables, but if I do that, how will inserting a jumper in the X-SUS cable affect the PSU???
I think he means disconnect it at the X-Main board end of the cable so you can just stick the resistor in the end of the cable instead of trying to jumper directly on the PSU board.

These models have a very common fault in the -Vscan supply on the Y-Main. Are you sure you are not hunting that problem with the 3BR0665JZ PWM circuit, either the chip itself or 1-3 of the capacitors around it?

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=43075

The most common variation of the fault is a leaky 10 uF capacitor at C5162 though there have also been quite a number of bad ICs.

I keep meaning to do a troubleshooting and explanation video since it is such a ridiculously common fault.
drussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 06:20 AM   #5
Michale32086
Badcaps Veteran
 
Michale32086's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
City & State: St Augustine, FLORIDA
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 120VAC 60hz
I'm a: Hardcore Geek
Posts: 1,163
Default Re: Samsung Plasma PN60E550D1F Power LED Blinks, Appears To Come On, No Display

Quote:
Originally Posted by drussell View Post
I think he means disconnect it at the X-Main board end of the cable so you can just stick the resistor in the end of the cable instead of trying to jumper directly on the PSU board.

These models have a very common fault in the -Vscan supply on the Y-Main. Are you sure you are not hunting that problem with the 3BR0665JZ PWM circuit, either the chip itself or 1-3 of the capacitors around it?

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=43075

The most common variation of the fault is a leaky 10 uF capacitor at C5162 though there have also been quite a number of bad ICs.

I keep meaning to do a troubleshooting and explanation video since it is such a ridiculously common fault.
Thanx for the reply... I'll pull it out of the stack and follow up with ya...

Thanx again...
Michale32086 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 08:31 AM   #6
Michale32086
Badcaps Veteran
 
Michale32086's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
City & State: St Augustine, FLORIDA
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 120VAC 60hz
I'm a: Hardcore Geek
Posts: 1,163
Default Re: Samsung Plasma PN60E550D1F Power LED Blinks, Appears To Come On, No Display

OK I have it on the bench...

I disconnected the cable between the Power PCB and the X-SUS... I jumpered #4 & #6....

Powered the TV on and got a steady 217v.....

I am now smarter than I was 10 mins ago..


Err.... What do I know??

Last edited by Michale32086; 12-11-2018 at 09:08 AM..
Michale32086 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 09:22 AM   #7
drussell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
City & State: Calgary, AB
My Country: Canada
Line Voltage: 120/240V, 60 Hz
I'm a: Hardcore Geek
Posts: 139
Default Re: Samsung Plasma PN60E550D1F Power LED Blinks, Appears To Come On, No Display

Are you using a resistor for jumping the PSU on? 217 looks high, your sticker photo is blurry but isn't it supposed to be 211? What is your Va? In any case, as long as Vs and the Va are present and stable, the PSU is probably OK.

If they're fine, re-connect all the cables and check the other voltages. What does Ve do, and more importantly, what does -Vscan do? What does the VCC supply (pin 7) to the IC at U5014 do? Do you see the proper 0.9V at pin 1 indicating that the internal current source is functioning? (This helps tell whether it is likely the chip itself or it is the C5162 capacitor.)

You should refer to the thread I posted above. It is the most comprehensive thread on the fault, starting right from the initial discovery. C5162 can be replaced with an electrolytic of 35V or higher. I wouldn't normally recommend replacing C5046 and C5160, at least not with electrolytics, if I remember correctly how the circuit works when I was tracing it, (but it has been a few years.) I'd have to dig one up to check to be sure how the circuitry worked. I don't think I've ever had an issue with those on any I have repaired, just sometimes the faulty chip (i.e. a chip still won't work even with a new cap), most often just the C5162 capacitor (i.e. original chip works fine with new capacitor.) It is highly likely that some of the chips are marginal, meaning they will work with a really good, totally non-leaky capacitor where, for example, changing the chip to one that works "better" might make it work, at least for a while, etc.

I should probably post an update with some specifics and correct a couple bits of misunderstanding over there since I haven't been following the past couple years of chatter in there.

I'll see if I can find time to scrounge up a PN60Exxx series and do some followup for this extremely common issue.
drussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 09:23 AM   #8
Michale32086
Badcaps Veteran
 
Michale32086's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
City & State: St Augustine, FLORIDA
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 120VAC 60hz
I'm a: Hardcore Geek
Posts: 1,163
Default Re: Samsung Plasma PN60E550D1F Power LED Blinks, Appears To Come On, No Display

OK It occurred to me that what I know now is that the X-SUS is bad..

Replaced the X-SUS board.. Checked the voltage held steady at about 210v..

OK, great...

Then I noticed that I had forgot to ground the X-SUS board by screwing the screws in....

Powered down and put all the screws in..

Powered back up.. Power LED blinks randomly and constantly and I get no voltage from the Power PCB..

Could not grounding the X-SUS board have fried either the board or the Power PCB???
Michale32086 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 09:39 AM   #9
Michale32086
Badcaps Veteran
 
Michale32086's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
City & State: St Augustine, FLORIDA
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 120VAC 60hz
I'm a: Hardcore Geek
Posts: 1,163
Default Re: Samsung Plasma PN60E550D1F Power LED Blinks, Appears To Come On, No Display

Quote:
Originally Posted by drussell View Post
If they're fine, re-connect all the cables and check the other voltages. What does Ve do, and more importantly, what does -Vscan do? What does the VCC supply (pin 7) to the IC at U5014 do? Do you see the proper 0.9V at pin 1 indicating that the internal current source is functioning? (This helps tell whether it is likely the chip itself or it is the C5162 capacitor.)
Yea, I read thru the first few pages of that thread.. I did check the C5162 caps on both Y-SUS boards and the cap looks in good shape.. No obvious burns on it...
Michale32086 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 10:09 AM   #10
drussell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
City & State: Calgary, AB
My Country: Canada
Line Voltage: 120/240V, 60 Hz
I'm a: Hardcore Geek
Posts: 139
Default Re: Samsung Plasma PN60E550D1F Power LED Blinks, Appears To Come On, No Display

The capacitors will not look bad in any way. They aren't physically leaking.

They will also read right about 10 uF on a standard low voltage capacitance tester and will work just fine in most circuits. You would have to do an electrical leakage test out of circuit with 20+ volts across the cap to see the issue and we are probably talking about uA magnitude leakage here. If you have an olde-timey capacitor leakage tester, (like the ones with a cathode ray eye tube) you could test them, or you could rig up an apparatus to do it but for the time involved, I would just replace if the diagnostic tests indicate the cap is likely at fault. A quality 10 uF electrolytic costs what, 20 cents?

Do the tests as described. Do you see more than 18 volts on the VCC allowing the controller to start? It is best to use your storage scope to watch the VCC supply rather than attempting to track it with a fast meter. I believe there are example waveforms in the main thread, but maybe not for the -Vscan controller chip VCC. I should check things like that to help future troubleshooters.

The lockout circuitry is very twitchy and time sensitive. If the -VScan does not come up virtually immediately (even if the circuitry actually would operate if it were given a second or two to start) the logic board will lock out the high voltage supplies until the next power cycle.

I assume that this strict timing is most likely intentional to be sure that certain supplies are always present in sequence to prevent panel or circuitry damage elsewhere.
drussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 10:16 AM   #11
Michale32086
Badcaps Veteran
 
Michale32086's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
City & State: St Augustine, FLORIDA
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 120VAC 60hz
I'm a: Hardcore Geek
Posts: 1,163
Default Re: Samsung Plasma PN60E550D1F Power LED Blinks, Appears To Come On, No Display

Quote:
Originally Posted by drussell View Post
Are you using a resistor for jumping the PSU on? 217 looks high, your sticker photo is blurry but isn't it supposed to be 211? What is your Va? In any case, as long as Vs and the Va are present and stable, the PSU is probably OK.
Yea, the Original Poster said that if you use a straight jumper (which I am) the voltage will be a bit higher..

VA - 57vc which is right on the mark..

VSCAN is dead...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20181211_121155.jpg (382.8 KB, 1 views)
Michale32086 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 10:23 AM   #12
Michale32086
Badcaps Veteran
 
Michale32086's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
City & State: St Augustine, FLORIDA
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 120VAC 60hz
I'm a: Hardcore Geek
Posts: 1,163
Default Re: Samsung Plasma PN60E550D1F Power LED Blinks, Appears To Come On, No Display

Quote:
Originally Posted by drussell View Post
The capacitors will not look bad in any way. They aren't physically leaking.

Scary, aren't I??


I don't have anything in the way of scopes.. Just the pictured voltmeter. Bud Light is optional...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20181211_121956.jpg (863.5 KB, 7 views)
Michale32086 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 10:29 AM   #13
drussell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
City & State: Calgary, AB
My Country: Canada
Line Voltage: 120/240V, 60 Hz
I'm a: Hardcore Geek
Posts: 139
Default Re: Samsung Plasma PN60E550D1F Power LED Blinks, Appears To Come On, No Display

The lack of -Vscan will cause an immediate shutdown of the HV PSU. This lockout usually occurs before the Ve even really starts to come up, which is what initially misled me to the X-Main board when I was first troubleshooting this particular issue.

Did you try the most basic of the troubleshooting from the other thread? Cooling the Y-Main by putting it in the freezer for a few minutes or shooting that area with freeze spray will often allow a verification power-on test. (Assuming that all other faults have been resolved, of course...)
drussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 10:33 AM   #14
drussell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
City & State: Calgary, AB
My Country: Canada
Line Voltage: 120/240V, 60 Hz
I'm a: Hardcore Geek
Posts: 139
Default Re: Samsung Plasma PN60E550D1F Power LED Blinks, Appears To Come On, No Display

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michale32086 View Post
I don't have anything in the way of scopes.. Just the pictured voltmeter.
Heh... 1100+ posts and no oscilloscope.

Does your meter have a min/MAX function? If that chip doesn't see close to 18V on VCC and actually start, you get insta-lockout.
drussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 10:56 AM   #15
Michale32086
Badcaps Veteran
 
Michale32086's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
City & State: St Augustine, FLORIDA
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 120VAC 60hz
I'm a: Hardcore Geek
Posts: 1,163
Default Re: Samsung Plasma PN60E550D1F Power LED Blinks, Appears To Come On, No Display

Quote:
Originally Posted by drussell View Post
Heh... 1100+ posts and no oscilloscope.
Yea, I am more of a Duct Tape/Super Glue kinda "tech"...


I think before I go any further I am going to have to replace that X-SUS board.. I have one board that gives me 210v on the VS at first and then rapidly counts downward..

The other X-SUS board shows voltages all over the place and the power LED just blinks randomly...

So I am thinking I'll need to get a replacement X-SUS before I can look at the Y-SUS...

Does that sound about right to you???
Michale32086 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 11:06 AM   #16
drussell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
City & State: Calgary, AB
My Country: Canada
Line Voltage: 120/240V, 60 Hz
I'm a: Hardcore Geek
Posts: 139
Default Re: Samsung Plasma PN60E550D1F Power LED Blinks, Appears To Come On, No Display

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michale32086 View Post
I think before I go any further I am going to have to replace that X-SUS board.. I have one board that gives me 210v on the VS at first and then rapidly counts downward..
That sounds normal under lockout conditions. This board could be fine.

Quote:
The other X-SUS board shows voltages all over the place and the power LED just blinks randomly...
That is abnormal.
Don't plug this one in again without further pre-testing or you might damage other still functional components in the TV.

Quote:
So I am thinking I'll need to get a replacement X-SUS before I can look at the Y-SUS...

Does that sound about right to you???
Uhhh, no...
Put the seemingly good X-Main in (including actually installing all of the screws on all boards) and do the prescribed tests.
drussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 11:36 AM   #17
Michale32086
Badcaps Veteran
 
Michale32086's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
City & State: St Augustine, FLORIDA
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 120VAC 60hz
I'm a: Hardcore Geek
Posts: 1,163
Default Re: Samsung Plasma PN60E550D1F Power LED Blinks, Appears To Come On, No Display

Hokay, kewl!

It'll take me about 30-40 mins. Wifey wants to do lunch.. I'll put the Y-SUS on ice while I am gone..
Michale32086 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 12:32 PM   #18
Michale32086
Badcaps Veteran
 
Michale32086's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
City & State: St Augustine, FLORIDA
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 120VAC 60hz
I'm a: Hardcore Geek
Posts: 1,163
Default Re: Samsung Plasma PN60E550D1F Power LED Blinks, Appears To Come On, No Display

OK... Pulled the Y-SUS out of the deep freeze.. Put it in the TV... I get -180v out of VSCAN, but (like VS) it starts counting... er up....

I may not have got it cold enough.. What area of the Y-SUS would I shoot with the freeze spray.. Might be more conclusive..
Michale32086 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 01:33 PM   #19
drussell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
City & State: Calgary, AB
My Country: Canada
Line Voltage: 120/240V, 60 Hz
I'm a: Hardcore Geek
Posts: 139
Default Re: Samsung Plasma PN60E550D1F Power LED Blinks, Appears To Come On, No Display

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michale32086 View Post
OK... Pulled the Y-SUS out of the deep freeze.. Put it in the TV... I get -180v out of VSCAN, but (like VS) it starts counting... er up....
It sounds like your project set has more than one issue, but one of them does indeed seem to be the lack of -Vscan since you now seem to briefly see the correct voltage on -Vscan after chilling the entire Y-Main, whereas you did not before. That means the controller is starting under those (chilled) conditions, but you probably still have another fault elsewhere since the set is apparently not coming fully powered up.

That is what made it difficult to find this issue initially when I looked at it here. Several of the sets I was working on at the time had multiple faults, so it took some time to decipher all the intricacies of what was actually going on between the various modules, working or not.

Quote:
I may not have got it cold enough.. What area of the Y-SUS would I shoot with the freeze spray.. Might be more conclusive..
It generally doesn't take a very long time for the Y-Main to be in the freezer to allow it to start if that is the only issue, however, just because it doesn't start with a chilled Y-Main doesn't mean that circuitry isn't an issue (even on n a set that has no other problems.)

If you're spraying freeze-spray, you're trying to spray the IC and the caps in that general circuit area. This is all detailed in the main thread, so I again suggest actually reading that thread instead taking random stabs in the dark and potentially destroying perfectly salvageable modules in the process.

The shotgun approach is rarely better than methodical, logical reasoning for diagnosis.

You still have not reported back any of the many characteristics I've repeatedly asked you to measure so it is very difficult to provide any specific useful advice until you actually measure all the appropriate items that have been indicated and report back with your results.

Then you can follow standard Plasma troubleshooting procedures back to a working set.
drussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2018, 02:04 PM   #20
Michale32086
Badcaps Veteran
 
Michale32086's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
City & State: St Augustine, FLORIDA
My Country: USA
Line Voltage: 120VAC 60hz
I'm a: Hardcore Geek
Posts: 1,163
Default Re: Samsung Plasma PN60E550D1F Power LED Blinks, Appears To Come On, No Display

Quote:
Originally Posted by drussell View Post
If you're spraying freeze-spray, you're trying to spray the IC and the caps in that general circuit area. This is all detailed in the main thread, so I again suggest actually reading that thread instead taking random stabs in the dark and potentially destroying perfectly salvageable modules in the process.

The shotgun approach is rarely better than methodical, logical reasoning for diagnosis.
Yea, I tried to follow the thread, but some of it was pertaining to other models and I don't have the knowledge to pick out which applies to my set and which doesn't..

A lot of it was simply over my head...

But I'll study the entire thread tomorrow (my only day off) and then get back here first thing Thu AM and jump on it..

I appreciate your assistance very much...
Michale32086 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Badcaps.net Technical Forums 2003 - 2019
Powered by vBulletin ®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:54 AM.
Did you find this forum helpful?