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**starfury1** · 09-27-2007, 10:24 AM

Re: GA-7DXR Rev 1.0

well the symptoms sound like caps but since you replaced them that makes it somewhat harder.
caps can still look good but be stuffed an ESR meter is your friend here.

Sounds like heat to me the browning but You would somewhat expect that to some extent too...As for over clocking I don't know but yeah its possible
(and the above maybe ,depending on extend a good indicator...)

Those piddly little chipset fans do fail alot I gather and on my gigabyte (posted here somewhere ) it died....if the system was running normally chances are the passive might well be ok for cooling (think its really more so there for those that oc, in my case... possibly yours too )

it is possible for bad joints to develop on the chipset IC and I dont think there is much you can do about it (since they float on solder balls or whatever that method is BGA)

http://www.ibl-loettechnik.de/englis...soldering.html

I dont know if all chipsets of late are done that way never looked into it

OK question time (assuming here your solder skills are up to par)

Did you replace all the caps and what type/series and brand did you use?

The most important ones are the VRM caps and these should be low ESR 105C types, of quality brand if you want it to last along time.

there are is a post around here were a recap job was done with 85C,sure it may wok but will fail a lot quicker.

Are there any known bad brands like GSC left on it

depending on the above, you may still have a cap issue (we live in hope)
but a bad solder joint or failed component is still a real possibility.

Changing the psu with a known good one is the next step, which you did so that puts the problem back on the MB or OS (less likely but possible)

By the sounds of it you probably know what I am talking about with VRM caps but if not see my post here .

HTH

Cheers

**JEWilson** · 09-30-2007, 12:59 PM

Re: GA-7DXR Rev 1.0

Hi

The capacitors for the CPU VRM are;
4 0f 10v 1200uF 105 deg C Choyo and
2 of 6.3v 1200uF 105 deg C Choyo
The VRM is a bog standard 3-phase Intersil HIP6301C controller with
3 of HIP6601 drivers running;
6 of MTB1306 MOSFETs

This seems odd as you can have a lower rated cap in
the upper gate of each phase, hence 6.3v versions
but there are only 2 and not three.
Any suggestions?

The mobo supports AGP Pro via a mobo Molex connector
The connector has;
4 of 25v 330uF 105 deg C G-Luxon

As to PSU
I did have a Q-TEC 550W dual fan running this setup ok.
So far as I was getting arbitrary lockups I replaced this
with a used Enermax EG-615V-PE as it had better O/P
more suitable to my requirements.

I did test both of these PSU with two types of PSU tester.
The 1st tester with both PSUs did not report any faults.
The 2nd tester which had a LCD display reported;
The Q-TEC as being ok but the Enermax had an issue
with the mS value

Does this point to a PSU issue?

As I further suspected perhaps RAM issues, I tested the
RAM with Memtestv86 v3.3 - tests 5 and 8 for 20 iterations.
This tested ok - no errors reported.

**davmax** · 09-30-2007, 06:54 PM

Re: GA-7DXR Rev 1.0

The cap values indicate that the VRM does not operate from the 12 volt supply. Usually there are more caps on the output of the VRM to cover the lower impedance/ higher current circuit of the CPU. The caps you list does quite tie up with the Gigabyte picture of this board. From the picture four VRM input caps (four 10V you list) can be seen and at least five output caps near the output chokes (coils)and possible another six that are significant bunched next to the memory slots. All need to be checked and replaced if they are Choyo.

**gonzo0815** · 10-01-2007, 06:31 AM

Re: GA-7DXR Rev 1.0

The older Enermax tend to have low 5v rail, but this is in most cases no problem. I duno if this belongs to your Enermax.

The Q-tec is junk, it is IMHO not safe to use it in demanding systems.

**starfury1** · 10-01-2007, 07:03 AM

Re: GA-7DXR Rev 1.0

I thought I had this pdf for that chip somewhere...or a links
Anyway yeah some run at 5 volt.
From the quick look I had here

HIP6301 datasheets

It appears the chip is 5 Volt VCC

Choyo are not considered good caps around here so yeah get rid of them.
(have a look at the good cap thread for possible ones to source, I used panasonic FM but some my debate that...they do work and will last, just maybe not THE BEST choice...not to open that debate here)

if you have an ESR meter then id test them but ideally replace them regardless

BTW with the PSU testers I tend to treat them as go no/go.

The one I have only places a very light load on one rail (5V I think) with reasonable accuracy voltage wise but its not a fluke.

To test a psu you need to put some real load on it

if caps are your problem then VRM outputs are most likely suspects

based on what you said

I rec'd this board and it appears to have been working ok until recently.
The system randomly locks up at arbitrary times. I have replaced the
PSU with an Enermax 550W but the problem persists.

Id back the CMOS off to "fail Safe mode" (in fact id leave it there) while trouble shooting

You did say it had been working fine till lately so....

me, id recap and get rid of any junk caps, chances are it will work fine after that

anyway just my thoughts

HTH Cheers

**starfury1** · 10-01-2007, 07:23 AM

Re: GA-7DXR Rev 1.0

yeah Enermax are ok supplies (mostly) but since you say its used and has some issue PG timing, there may be something that needs to be fix with it...if the system is running ok with it and starts fine then its probably ok but possibly it could use a bit of a rework its self....

it might be little later model Gonzo.... looking at wattage... I cant find anything on 615...maybe 651?

**JEWilson** · 10-01-2007, 06:53 PM

Re: GA-7DXR Rev 1.0

Oops...

Y - Enermax EG651P-VE
To bring matters up to date so to speak.

I swapped out the GA-7DXR for a brand, new, unused GA-7DX+
I have opted to use a SuperTrak 100 6-ch IDE PCI RAID card as
compared to the on-board Promise Lite controller supplied with
the GA-7DXR. They are essentially the same board but operate differing
BIOS revisions excepting the newer board does not have AGP Pro.

Anyway...

The problems persisted with the new board so, naturally, I suspected
the PSU. However, where prior to I had tested the three HP 512MB
PC2100 DDR ECC REG DIMMs in the GA-7DXR with no problems reported
by MemTest86 v3.3, in the new board with the Enermax, I was having
errors reported at 240-248MB. I have managed to isolate a DIMM and
have been problem free since.

This is odd...

I am wondering if the problem came about with use of the Q-TEC
PSU in the GA-7DXR i.e. it was inadequate.
As I recall, the CPU voltage setting could only go as low as 1.675v for the CPU.
The Athlon XP 2400+ CPU I am using is a 1.65V device, so wonder if the genesis of the problem lies with this.

In any event, I will be recapping the GA-7DXR as a matter of course
and concur, I usually use Panasonic FM when I do this as these appear
to be better quality than most for the price.

Also, as the Enermax is used and arguably there is a PG matter to be
resolved, it may be a good idea to recap this also. Has anyone else
in the forum done such a thing?

As a final point, might the issue lie with RAM? It appears I may have
to test each DIMM separately as well as together so far as, might
the problem be supply to the DIMMs as with sags and the like.

As I am running MBM5, I recall the Q-TEC 550W was a high on the
12v volt line at something like 12.74 v

Any thought and/or insight greatly appreciated.

**davmax** · 10-01-2007, 10:25 PM

Re: GA-7DXR Rev 1.0

A immediate possibility is that if you are using ECC memory. This is not supported on many motherboards. I see the spec for both your motherboards covers ECC memory. Just check the bios to make sure that it is set for ECC memory. Interesting one module is now playing up. I guess you have double checked that the DIMM socket connection is OK by re-inserting. If it was working in the other Mb, is there a possibility that it suffered an electrostatic zap when handling the modules.

**JEWilson** · 10-01-2007, 11:20 PM

Re: GA-7DXR Rev 1.0

Y

I reseated the DIMMs a number of times and cleaned the gold contact
pins with alcohol - the problems still persists and reports further errors
(under test) at 240.8MB

For the record, I have configured the BIOS for correct+scrub.

It could be a handling error - will get back to you on this after I have
had the opportunity to test them as set out prior to.

Thx

**starfury1** · 10-02-2007, 05:20 AM

Re: GA-7DXR Rev 1.0

Is it possible for the psu to damage ram?..yes, but not as likely a scenario.
(from what I understand)

I have no idea on the Q-tec but if gonzo says junk for any real work it is then.

Recapping the Enermax wouldn't be a bad idea, usually (mostly) the output caps seems to fail.
you may want to consider other caps for this thought due to heat.
the UCC are well regarded for psu use (I think)
but your are looking more at the top shelf there

Even thou a little worst specs, due to construction FC series might be a better choice (in both cases) but does cost more
opinions vary , just use (again) Quality low ESR for the psu output caps

I would also pay attention to the SB 5 Volt section as this runs 24/7 while psu is plugged in and turned on at the switch.

Me, I would check rework any high current *heat stressed solder joints on the psu
(*like power trannies and transformer etc)

As to RAM well Davmax seems to be more into that and possible implications.
I just run my systems more or less default so never really get into the pro and cons...
I know he had his mind on ram issues of late so details should be fresher in his mind then mine

good to hear you think you got it being a ram chip as the issue
Even thought you had to do a somewhat double step to get there.

on a scale of most to lest likely that would probably be No.3
but I dont fix them every day like a lot here do.
So not going to try and guess what its issue may have been

Cant help you on that SMC cap ...I suppose it depends on what its original purpose was, you may guess that from how it fits into the circuit
(which may not be easy) my wet finger in the air says probably bypass/decoupling cap of some kind but thats a pure guess..no real idea thought (like the old days of TTL where you would have ceramic caps close to the chips)
possibly just another component redundant to that particular version of PCB.

Yeah Promise did have issues...the pro's here wouldn't use any on board Raid controller anyway.
I've never bothered with it but if I did do raid
I would buy a card intended for Raid, not that you cant fall into traps with them either...there a post about here on one model that was causing someone nightmares

As I said Id recap the MB regardless if you got it out
Sounds to me like you know how to solder, de solder...rework

you will find pdf or site links in this post by Willawake

What caps should i buy?

BTW your probably aware, but I'll mention it anyway
You will find you can probably use 6.3 volt caps in place of the 10 Volt ones
(check to be sure they are across 5 V or 3V3)
(10V is used so they can get crap caps with a lower ESR, so the story goes)

The other issue you may find is Diameter(lead spacing possibly too) of the caps, pannies in 3300uf are 12.5 mm forgotten what it is for the 1200uf but yeah just be aware of that
its fine (in fact probably better) to use the larger can ..just sometimes they are not going to fit nicely...so yeah it may not look professional finish and yeah the little extra lead length will at a tad to ESR but it will still work ok
better of cause if you can get the can that sits flush.
you should see my ZXE...still working fine but not a pretty sight LOL
(I should have done it the way I did the last one more caps lower value for a better look, the positions are there)

HTH

Cheers

**JEWilson** · 10-02-2007, 10:24 AM

Re: GA-7DXR Rev 1.0

Y - the smt cap, I believe was part of the sense circuit for the CPU fan.

When I first ran this board, the CPU rpm would intermittently appear and
disappear in the BIOS section for system health - sure sign of something amiss.
The fact that latterly it has stopped displaying any CPU fan speed in the BIOS at all tends me to think now that I noticed the SMT amiss, they are
connected. When I received the mobo I did visually inspect it and did not find anything untoward (for what that's worth).

Certainly, the cap is in the correct part of the board area and being a
4 layer board, signal routing and silk screen are usually reliable
pointers.

As an aside, I admit it, I am guilty and old enought to recall
the days when bypass caps for RAM and devices (of the 5V TTL) were
easily replaced!

Just a point - I have a 50W iron. Is this going to be enough for the
power stage rework as suggested? The tip can be switched for something
suitable as befits the application on this thing. Of course, I usually use a much lower wattage for mobo work.

Lastly, can you tell me a reliable way for measuring SMT device values
out of cct? Given the SMT cap is amiss, it may be I can lift off the same
part from the mobo, measure and order what I require for rework.

Any thoughts, suggestions, guidance and insight appreciated.

**starfury1** · 10-02-2007, 12:10 PM

Re: GA-7DXR Rev 1.0

removel is best the hotter the better (with in reason of cause) just don't dump to much heat into to it....to clear via's the Needle method is best but if you got a sucker try it once no more then twice
you may find the positive lead harder to get up to temp
(due to the way the power plains are done I believe...so its closer to the cap and sucks the heat away)

Walk the electro caps out is easiest way for removal I think but depends on what you got I guess

the once to via's are clear just put in the new ones

just beware if its RoHS pcb....I dont think it will be thought so 60/40 solders the go

Otherer here will have there own way of doing things...chec the FAQ's too for the needle method
I think willawake has a full post on it there tools need etc

components well easy way is replace smc but a capacitance meter will measure it
(I think a DMM with capacitance should be able to measure in circuit)
of course its always best to check them out of circuit

not sure on the fan thing vaguely remember something about it but not enough to make any comment.

if you got a stuffed MB pcb laying around do a bit of practice on that to get the feel
you have to be relatively quick but you dont want to yank a cap out with the via
so a little bit of practice wont hurt if you haven't recapped.

I wouldn't call recapping the best place for a complete beginner to start their solder career
but you sound like you got some years of skill there so it should quickly be come second nature to you

since you say the tip can be changed is it a Weller you got?

**JEWilson** · 10-02-2007, 03:44 PM

Re: GA-7DXR Rev 1.0

Nah

The 50W is an Antex TCS (adjustable temp. setting).

The bits are easily replaceable and you can get a selection
of them for whatever type of job you may have.

Me thinks I have a two sets of needle point and two chisel bits at the mo.

**starfury1** · 10-02-2007, 10:11 PM

Re: GA-7DXR Rev 1.0

when you mention tip I thought you may have been talking about temp...thats why I asked
small 2mm chisel is recommended , just a add a smidge to the tip to get the heat transfer going better.

get some stainless steel needles and you will see a pic of on section of a terminal block in will post screw it it to that as a handle for it....it works quite will once you get the hang of it

heres the post

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=485

cheers

**JEWilson** · 10-25-2007, 02:57 PM

Re: GA-7DXR Rev 1.0

Hi

I've completed the recap of this mobo albeit I still have to
get a small SMT for the CPU fan sense.

Thanks for the needle method, works better and is quick!

I have got myself an ESR meter too.

I will put this in parallel with my digital multimeter and test
the ESR and normal resistance values of the replacement
caps. All things being well, I'm sure I will get very small ESR
(recapped with Panasonic FMs) readings and no s/c caps!

Will let you know what I find when I test it!

Thanks

**starfury1** · 10-27-2007, 05:14 AM

Re: GA-7DXR Rev 1.0

dont use them at the same time
(so there is no chance interference or or possible damage)
is my advice

With the ESR meter dont use it near a live TV or monitor
(shielding on a monitor might reduce this but still I think possible)
There is no shielding on the meter and interference is a real possibility if you use it too close to one

Another thing to watch out for is the contact resistance of the sockets and probes

ESR meter is measuring resistances less than an ohm

Small chance of these happening I know
but if your are aware of these points you wont get caught by them

Its a good meter

Also do not apply power to the MB
both will supply there own power for testing.

Might be stating the obvious but just so we are clear on this.

No worries and blame TC for the needle method

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GA-7DXR Rev 1.0

GA-7DXR Rev 1.0

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