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Old 02-18-2018, 05:39 PM   #1
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Default Bad cap reading 4x high?

I have a swollen Sanyo WG 2200uf cap removed from the board and reading 8000uf with an LCR meter and a DMM. I always thought bad caps capacitance goes way down when swollen or leaking.
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Old 02-18-2018, 08:50 PM   #2
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Default Re: Bad cap reading 4x high?

What resistance do you get when tested it in Ohm mode? What ESR do you get when tested with ESR meter?
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Old 02-19-2018, 12:25 AM   #3
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Default Re: Bad cap reading 4x high?

high leakage does that.
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Old 02-19-2018, 08:15 AM   #4
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Default Re: Bad cap reading 4x high?

Quote:
Originally Posted by budm View Post
What resistance do you get when tested it in Ohm mode? What ESR do you get when tested with ESR meter?
Starts around 1k ohms then climbs and climbs then, in a split second, goes up to 30k.

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Old 02-19-2018, 10:44 AM   #5
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Default Re: Bad cap reading 4x high?

I've seen some LCR meters report incorrect numbers on leaky capacitors. The number is wrong.
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Old 02-19-2018, 11:31 AM   #6
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Default Re: Bad cap reading 4x high?

First off the ESR 0.24 ohms is a give away any way

It should be .02 anyway and the UF reading is way off to
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Old 02-19-2018, 11:41 AM   #7
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Default Re: Bad cap reading 4x high?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_sam_sam View Post
First off the ESR 0.24 ohms is a give away any way

It should be .02 anyway and the UF reading is way off to
I'm not too sure about the ESR accuracy on that cheap test kit. I have thrown brand new low esr caps in there and it's shown way too high esr as well.

Here is an example. Brand new 1000uf Panasonic FM

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Old 02-19-2018, 12:07 PM   #8
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Default Re: Bad cap reading 4x high?

they are very accurate if they are calibrated.
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Old 02-19-2018, 12:48 PM   #9
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Default Re: Bad cap reading 4x high?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayjr1105 View Post
IBrand new 1000uf Panasonic FM
Electrolytic caps are usually +/- 20% of their uF rating. So a 1000uF cap reading 1048uF is okay.

The ESR might be a bit high depending on which exact 1000uF cap you have. Check it against

https://industrial.panasonic.com/cdb...A0000C1018.pdf
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Old 02-19-2018, 01:22 PM   #10
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Default Re: Bad cap reading 4x high?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stj View Post
they are very accurate if they are calibrated.
I just ordered a .1uf cap to calibrate it. I don't have anything close sadly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredcaps View Post
Electrolytic caps are usually +/- 20% of their uF rating. So a 1000uF cap reading 1048uF is okay.

The ESR might be a bit high depending on which exact 1000uF cap you have. Check it against

https://industrial.panasonic.com/cdb...A0000C1018.pdf
I didn't mean the capacitance. I meant the ESR is way too high for a brand new low ESR cap.
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Old 02-19-2018, 02:18 PM   #11
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Default Re: Bad cap reading 4x high?

Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredcaps View Post
Electrolytic caps are usually +/- 20% of their uF rating. So a 1000uF cap reading 1048uF is okay.
Yes, smaller ones are usually a bit over that.

Bigger ones (=High Voltage) usually are a bit under the specified value.

ie for a 470F capacitor you can assume something around 440F or something like that...
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Old 02-19-2018, 04:18 PM   #12
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Default Re: Bad cap reading 4x high?

i recommend a 0.22uf film cap for calibrating.

if a .1uf cap is actually 0.099uf the tester wont like it.
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Old 02-19-2018, 05:51 PM   #13
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Default Re: Bad cap reading 4x high?

It looks like the leakage resistance causes the fault capacitance reading.
If you put 100K, 47K resistor in parallel with that Panasonic cap, what will it show on your cap meter?

Last edited by budm; 02-19-2018 at 05:56 PM..
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Old 02-19-2018, 05:54 PM   #14
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Default Re: Bad cap reading 4x high?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stj View Post
i recommend a 0.22uf film cap for calibrating.

if a .1uf cap is actually 0.099uf the tester wont like it.
Figures, I knew I should have just ordered a kit like this. http://a.co/3KgqGtE

Do you think my ESR readings will improve that much once calibrated? I have tested a ton of low esr caps, never once seeing anything .0X or lower. I thought that LCR tester is just junk.

Edit: I can put two .1uf's in parallel can't I?

Last edited by jayjr1105; 02-19-2018 at 06:46 PM..
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Old 02-20-2018, 01:21 AM   #15
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Default Re: Bad cap reading 4x high?

the parallel method should work.

you should read my very long tester thread!!
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=50720
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Old 02-21-2018, 05:24 AM   #16
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Default Re: Bad cap reading 4x high?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stj View Post
they are very accurate if they are calibrated.
LCR-T4 versus BK 880
https://streamable.com/acx9m
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Old 02-21-2018, 05:25 AM   #17
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Default Re: Bad cap reading 4x high?

1-6-4 Temperature Characteristics

Aluminum electrolytic capacitors have liquid electrolyte. This electrolyte has properties (conductivity, viscosity, etc.) that have rather conspicuous temperature characteristics.

Electrical conductivity increases as the temperature increases and reduces as the temperature decreases.

Therefore, the electrical characteristics of aluminum electrolytics are affected by temperature more than other types of capacitors. The following section explains the relationship between temperature and capacitance, tangent delta, ESR, impedance and leakage current.



1) Capacitance The capacitance of aluminum electrolytic capacitors increases as the temperature increases and decreases as the temperature decreases. The relationship between temperature and capacitance is shown in Fig. 1-9.



2) Tanδ, Equivalent Series Resistance (ESR), Impedance The Tanδ, equivalent series resistance (ESR) and impedance changes with temperature and frequency. An example of the general characteristics is shown in Fig. 1- 10 and 1-11.



http://www.nichicon....df/aluminum.pdf
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Old 02-21-2018, 05:26 AM   #18
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Default Re: Bad cap reading 4x high?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzoDurlg_jI
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Old 02-21-2018, 06:37 PM   #19
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Default Re: Bad cap reading 4x high?

Quote:
Originally Posted by victor_cj View Post
LCR-T4 versus BK 880
https://streamable.com/acx9m
I have never from day 1 of owning the LCR-T4 seen a cap ESR that low. Even with brand new caps. I wonder if there's firmware or something to update. I still have some caps coming tomorrow for calibration.
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Old 02-22-2018, 01:27 AM   #20
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Default Re: Bad cap reading 4x high?

>0.1uF capacitor for calibration is the reference, Rp and Rs may make a difference.
On the LCR-T4 PCB, 431(TL431) is the reference for ATMEGA328P-AU.
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File Type: jpg Rp Rs 003.jpg (464.8 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg Rp Rs 002.jpg (807.1 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg Rp Rs 001.jpg (641.8 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg LCR-T4 005.jpg (508.3 KB, 14 views)

Last edited by victor_cj; 02-22-2018 at 01:30 AM..
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