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Old 02-13-2018, 09:26 AM   #21
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Default Re: Xbox 360 caps keep failing

“Polymodding” means replacing electrolytics with polymers. There may be one additional 2200µF 6.3V capacitor that’s on the +5V output of a buck regulator (for the USB controllers and fronts ports), away from the GPU and CPU switching regulator - for that, this might be a better replacement:

http://www.badcaps.net/store/product...roducts_id=138
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Old 02-13-2018, 01:19 PM   #22
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Default Re: Xbox 360 caps keep failing

What would be the best option if I didn’t polymod the motherboard and I wanted to stick to electrolytic? ( I feel that polymodding may over complicate things)

Last edited by MaxRocker247; 02-13-2018 at 01:26 PM..
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Old 02-13-2018, 01:52 PM   #23
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Default Re: Xbox 360 caps keep failing

Well, most of the ultra-low impedance electrolytics have been discontinued and are very difficult if not impossible to source. eBay mostly sells fakes so sadly that’s not much of an option either. Unless you can find suitable replacements (verified with an ESR and capacitance meter that can test for leakage current too) taken from disposable motherboards, polymers may be your only option unless you want to leave your caps as they are. At this point, it’s highly advisable to open the power brick and see if anything needs replacing inside it.
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Old 02-13-2018, 02:39 PM   #24
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Default Re: Xbox 360 caps keep failing

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxRocker247 View Post
What would be the best option if I didn’t polymod the motherboard and I wanted to stick to electrolytic? ( I feel that polymodding may over complicate things)
Panasonic FM.

They are (in most cases) a good replacement for Nippin KZG and similar caps.
BUT: They are one size larger.
Means where the KZG was 8mm diametre, the Pana FM will be 10mm.

And it doesn't really make sense because the polymer replacement is in some cases cheaper than the Pana FM...

Last edited by Stefan Payne; 02-13-2018 at 02:42 PM..
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Old 02-13-2018, 02:48 PM   #25
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Default Re: Xbox 360 caps keep failing

On second glance, the motherboard appears to have 4 polymer capacitors on the board from the factory. They are silver and blue and say A 58f 820 4v. Two of them appear to be on the gpu v rail
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Old 02-13-2018, 04:10 PM   #26
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Default Re: Xbox 360 caps keep failing

So if I were to polymod the cpu and gpu VRM low on
C6C2
C6C3
C7C1
C7C2
And
C8C1
C8D1
C8D4
C8E3
C8E8
C8F1
C8F2
C8F3
Which polymer capacitor would be best suited? The originals were nichicon HZ 2200uf 6.3v. Thanks
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Old 02-13-2018, 04:31 PM   #27
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Default Re: Xbox 360 caps keep failing

The suggested caps in my previous post should work fine.
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Old 02-13-2018, 04:39 PM   #28
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Default Re: Xbox 360 caps keep failing

The 2.5v 820uf?
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Old 02-13-2018, 04:54 PM   #29
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Default Re: Xbox 360 caps keep failing

For the caps you listed, those should work without issue.
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Old 02-13-2018, 05:05 PM   #30
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Default Re: Xbox 360 caps keep failing

Ok I will order some. And the power supply appeared to be fine after inspecting it. I’m hoping that changing these caps will resolve the issue
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Old 02-13-2018, 05:55 PM   #31
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Default Re: Xbox 360 caps keep failing

It's possible. Who did you buy them from, on eBay? If they were fake, it's entirely possible they have marginally too high ESR values, and after heating up a bit, their ESR drops enough that the power supply circuits are stable, then the console works normally. In that case, genuine, new capacitors would solve the problem.

Bear in mind that the power supply could still have bad capacitors, drying out without visible signs of failure is possible. You say the console is 10 years old and never used, if it was stored in an attic\garage etc, it could have been subject to temperature extremes and temperature cycling. This may have damaged the capacitors while sitting unused, or perhaps they needed reforming and did not get it. That could account for the quick failures you saw.
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Old 02-13-2018, 06:16 PM   #32
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Default Re: Xbox 360 caps keep failing

Seems logical. I am unaware of the previous storage conditions. And yes I bought the “Panasonic FJ series” off eBay. Im hoping that is the source of the problem and I can change those out with the polymers I ordered. I saw someone else on youtube with almost the exact same issues I had. https://youtu.be/45g9NmhrMbE
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Old 02-14-2018, 02:02 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wester547 View Post
For the caps you listed, those should work without issue.
Just curious how you determines these spacific replacements as I’m trying to learn more on polymer replacements. Does it matter that the voltage and the uf rating is lower? Thanks
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Old 02-14-2018, 04:58 PM   #34
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Default Re: Xbox 360 caps keep failing

The reason for using higher capacitance and higher voltage capacitors with larger case sizes on the output of a CPU or GPU buck regulator is to achieve an overall lower impedance rating and greater ripple ability. Due to the fact that the conductivity of the water-base electrolyte used in electrolytic capacitors is much lower than that of the conductive functional polymer used in solid capacitors, polymers with lower capacitance ratings, voltage ratings, and much smaller case sizes can generally be used successfully on the CPU and GPU VRM output (they have much better ratings), especially at the switching frequencies polymers are rated for (100KHz-300KHz+). The bulk capacitance does help with transients, but isn’t always necessary, especially in buck regulators with more phases. The 2.5V rated 820µF polymers in the URL should be fine at the Vcore voltage of the Xbox 360 CPU and GPU (IIRC, it’s 1.25V and 1.1V respectively).

Last edited by Wester547; 02-14-2018 at 05:44 PM..
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Old 02-14-2018, 07:58 PM   #35
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Default Re: Xbox 360 caps keep failing

Wow I am learning quite a lot in this venture. I’m glad there are forums like this with people like you that are willing to share their knowledge and make life easier for people. Thank you very much
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Old 02-16-2018, 12:14 AM   #36
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Default Re: Xbox 360 caps keep failing

Yeah, Ripple Current an especially ESR are more important values than Voltage rating and Capacitance

For Voltage you need something that's higher than the applied voltage. Other than that, doesn't matter that much. BUT: a 2200µF Cap can have 1300mA Ripple Current and 48Ohms ESR at 6,3V or 1780mA and 30OHms at 16V - both have 10mm diametre.
And the 35V version in 16x36mm has 2550mA and 19Ohms.
All have the same capacitance.

But you can also choose a lower Impedance version (like Pana FM) you have 2470mA RIpple and 18Ohm Impedance. With that one you can even go down in capacitance in this case the 1200µF/16V has the same specs (Ripple + ESR) and the 820µF/25V one.
And all have the same size (10x25mm)...
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Old 02-17-2018, 11:36 AM   #37
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wester547 View Post
“Polymodding” means replacing electrolytics with polymers. There may be one additional 2200µF 6.3V capacitor that’s on the +5V output of a buck regulator (for the USB controllers and fronts ports), away from the GPU and CPU switching regulator - for that, this might be a better replacement:

http://www.badcaps.net/store/product...roducts_id=138
Is this cap on C7F1? In front of cpu heatsink?
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Old 02-23-2018, 05:09 AM   #38
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Default Re: Xbox 360 caps keep failing

I have replaced all gpu and cpu vrm low with polymer caps. I now want to Change ALL the kzj 16v 1500uf caps as well. can I use the other 16v caps you recommended? Here are the locations:
3 in front of power plug
C9B1
C9C1
C9C4
2 behind GPU vrm in front of fans
C6B3
C7B3
2 to the right of the CPU behind the cpu low vrm
C9D2
C9E3
And 2 in front of CPU
C6F3
C7F2

Thanks
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Old 02-23-2018, 08:22 AM   #39
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Default Re: Xbox 360 caps keep failing

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxRocker247 View Post
Is this cap on C7F1? In front of cpu heatsink?
Sorry for the belated reply. That is the cap further down the board, (on revision 2.0 of Xenon motherboards and later), under the extended GPU heatpipe heatsink. Using the 16V rated polymers I recommended would indeed be fine to replace all the KZJ.

Last edited by Wester547; 02-23-2018 at 08:55 AM..
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Old 02-23-2018, 08:47 AM   #40
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Default Re: Xbox 360 caps keep failing

Excellent! I’ll replace those while I have everything opened up
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