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Old 08-12-2019, 10:50 PM   #21
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Thumbs up Re: Raidmax RX-600 ringing noise and 0ms PG

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Originally Posted by momaka View Post
This is one thing I do like about cheapo and old PSUs - easy to work on.
...but at the same time not always worth bothering with, unless the issue is simple and easily identifiable. By contrast, a 200-400$ unit for instance is definitely worth struggling to fix, but it's not going to be easy most likely.....plus, given the price, you're expecting a bit of quality out of it and unless you do something really silly with it, you don't expect it to fail to begin with. I spent that amount on my Corsair a couple of years and I looked up some pictures of the insides on the internet just out of curiosity (didn't want to break the seal to void the warranty) and it's....well let's just say it wouldn't be fun to track down anything in there, unless it's very obvious...
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Old 08-13-2019, 01:24 AM   #22
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Default Re: Raidmax RX-600 ringing noise and 0ms PG

None of them are economically worth fixing, really. Not something as common as an ATX power supply.
Not unless you can spot the problem a mile off and can work quickly with cheap parts.

Low cost PSUs are easier to work on but not worth much. Higher cost PSUs are harder to work on so you spend more time and then there's no real difference in the end.

It only makes sense from an educational perspective, or for entertainment, in my opinion.
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Old 08-18-2019, 09:17 AM   #23
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Default Re: Raidmax RX-600 ringing noise and 0ms PG

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None of them are economically worth fixing, really. Not something as common as an ATX power supply.
Not unless you can spot the problem a mile off and can work quickly with cheap parts.

Low cost PSUs are easier to work on but not worth much. Higher cost PSUs are harder to work on so you spend more time and then there's no real difference in the end.
Yes, very true.
However, I do like the simple OEM 200-350W ATX PSUs that come with OEM machines, like Dell, HP, and etc. (so typically dealing with Delta, LiteOn, HiPro/Chicony, and Bestec PSUs.) These almost always just end up with bad caps and rarely something else. Yes, you can get a "refurbished" replacement for those on eBay or elsewhere online for $10-15 shipped (same Delta, LiteOn, and etc. brands)... but they will all end up with the same problem again.

So for that reason, I like to recap these units and just keep on using them. Once recapped, I don't have to worry about them ever failing again. Aside from cleaning the dust out of them every few years (and checking the fan), I'm confident they will easily do another 15+ years. That's usually more than the useful service life of the computer they're in! And when it gets to that point, I just rip them out and reuse them on the next PC.
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Old 08-18-2019, 11:21 AM   #24
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Talking Re: Raidmax RX-600 ringing noise and 0ms PG

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However, I do like the simple OEM 200-350W ATX PSUs that come with OEM machines, like Dell, HP, and etc.
Oh right, very true, forgot about OEM stuff: no way to replace them due to the pretty dedicated form factor and connectors, unless it's something from a recent enough generation that they still produce parts for them, which is almost never the case, since they start failing after the end-of-life of that particular product.

See THIS thread of mine about this poor little TYCO supply for a terminal PC which hasn't been fixed since. It got butchered by one of our stubborn "experts" over here who keeps looking in the wrong place for the issue...it's situations like these when you should just throw in the towel and either admit defeat or struggle to find a replacement, or at the very least, try and adapt another supply...here's some pics of how it ended up when I last saw it - broken traces, botched parts, wires everywhere....it's a disaster
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Old 08-23-2019, 07:57 PM   #25
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Default Re: Raidmax RX-600 ringing noise and 0ms PG

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Oh right, very true, forgot about OEM stuff: no way to replace them due to the pretty dedicated form factor and connectors, unless it's something from a recent enough generation that they still produce parts for them, which is almost never the case, since they start failing after the end-of-life of that particular product.
Well, none of my OEM PSUs have dedicated form factor. Just bog-standard ATX. But I like them and fix them anyways. For those simple office machines, they have just the right amount of connectors and power.

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See THIS thread of mine about this poor little TYCO supply for a terminal PC which hasn't been fixed since. It got butchered by one of our stubborn "experts" over here who keeps looking in the wrong place for the issue...it's situations like these when you should just throw in the towel and either admit defeat or struggle to find a replacement, or at the very least, try and adapt another supply...here's some pics of how it ended up when I last saw it - broken traces, botched parts, wires everywhere....it's a disaster
Oh my!
Yeah, that's PSU is done. Even I wouldn't work on it, and I sometimes tend to work on items that are complete lost causes. (I also hate having to fix people's handiwork, especially when they are considered "experts". )
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Old 08-24-2019, 03:04 AM   #26
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Talking Re: Raidmax RX-600 ringing noise and 0ms PG

Well props to this chap for being persistent, but it's not even funny anymore, especially to the client who's been waiting for like 6 months now. You know it's dead, I know it's dead, the CLIENT knows it's dead, HE knows it's dead, but we can't just admit there's something we can't fix, can we ? I must say, this is one polite client - he probably wasn't using that terminal and just wanted a functional backup, otherwise I can't explain why he hasn't (at the very least) dropped by to pick it up...if not to lay down some strong worded complaints...*sigh*
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Old 08-24-2019, 09:26 AM   #27
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Default Re: Raidmax RX-600 ringing noise and 0ms PG

^ LOL!
Yes, I'm pretty sure that client didn't close down his store for 6 months to wait for his POS system to get repaired. I'll be surprised if he even remembers he gave it to your shop for repair... much less come back for it.

Generally, if people don't come back for their item within a month, you can almost always consider it yours to keep - at least that's what I've seen while working in that field. Could vary with geographical location and the item being fixed, of course. But for the most part, after 1 month, people don't care anymore.
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Old 08-24-2019, 10:02 AM   #28
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Unhappy Re: Raidmax RX-600 ringing noise and 0ms PG

Correct. That was the policy we had at our former shop - one month. Not too sure about this place, though I believe it's the same. It used to be 3 months, but we ended up having to drop it down to 1 because we became overcrowded with junk people no longer wanted and didn't feel like picking up anymore, as if we were some sort of junkyard. Some were still usable, at least for parts, if not entirely repairable, in which case we repaired and sold them or split the "catch" equally among ourselves. Things like laptops and TVs were the most valuable in this case, even if not repairable, because they consist of individual parts that could be salvaged/sold. Other things like no-name phones and tablets and even printers were completely useless, featuring either dedicated hardware that could see no use anywhere else, were so outdated there was no point even bothering and it was unlikely a similar one would ever come in again, so we scrapped these on an yearly basis clear-out.

Depending on the item, we'd relax this policy more ore less, like if they showed up one day or even a month after the time was up, we'd be understanding and give it back - fixed or not. OTOH, if you dropped something in like 2 years ago and one day decide to drop by, you'd get flipped off - fixed or not By that point, like I said, it was highly unlikely the device was even there anymore, or it was in bits

The guy in question is the slowest worker I've seen here (granted, he's pushing 70 !), as only he seems to do this: he's collected tons of junk like this over the course of several years he fails to fix here and instead of returning them or throwing them away, he keeps saving it and it wouldn't even bother me so much if it was kept nice and orderly, but instead it's like a junk yard in there. I mean, who knows, some might say it's pretty tidy compared to what THEY'VE seen, but compared to MY taste, it's....UGH...no...that's not how it should be done.

This lack of tidiness seems to be a plague around here, since I've yet to see a proper workbench here - they all look like THIS, no exception ! This is where you money goes folks. This is where your laptops are getting fixed...on top of that mound of junk like that... I actually feel embarrassed when clients are allowed to walk in there sometimes and they have to see that...Disappointed big time *Rant over*
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Old 08-25-2019, 12:37 PM   #29
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Default Re: Raidmax RX-600 ringing noise and 0ms PG

^ Yeah, that's pretty terrible there. Not the worst I've seen, yes... but still absolutely terrible. Worst thing about a messy bench like that is it makes it hard to find your tools. And if you drop something like a small screw, you really start loosing time trying to find it. Probably would take less time to clean the bench and keep it that way than to always look for shit every time something is put on the bench.

On that note, my "bench" (or room / work area) isn't a perfect example either. But for the amount of stuff that I have, it's not bad. And I know where things are 99% of the time or where to find them if I don't remember exactly. "Organized pack-rat chaos" is probably a good description for it. For the small stray parts that get left over from repairs, I try to keep them in little cups or containers (sometimes parts from different items together). So it looks OK-ish, doesn't always make sense why certain items are together in a container, but generally I do remember that they are and where to find them. It's only the components I haven't used in over 2 years that get a little harder to find. But everything I use on a regular basis is on or near the bench and always in the same spot - no exceptions, especially for tools. I hate having to look for tools, so I always place them in the same exact spot in the same exact "order", even if it appears that there is a lack of one.

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Originally Posted by Dannyx
The guy in question is the slowest worker I've seen here (granted, he's pushing 70 !), as only he seems to do this: he's collected tons of junk like this over the course of several years he fails to fix here and instead of returning them or throwing them away,
My uncle went to a shop like that last year trying to get an old 90's HiFi CD player fixed. As soon as we walked into the repair shop and I saw the amount of crap on the bench (and layers of dust in between), I wasn't hopeful. My uncle was skeptical too, but politely asked if the guy could only look at it and not necessarily try to repair it, if it wasn't possible. The guy then took the CD player apart as we were there, inserted the most scratched and banged up CD I've seen in years, and tried starting the player to see the symptoms. Of course it didn't play - but even with a working CD player, I doubt that scratched CD would have worked. Then he grabbed a screw driver and immediately started playing with the first two Pots he found on the board. Didn't even mark what position they were originally and just started turning them. Obviously this didn't produce any results either, so I tried to, as politely as possible, tell my uncle that even I could have tried that at home. After some minutes of the guy talking gibberish and still trying to fiddle with those pots, my uncle finally saw my point and we left with the CD player. And the guy didn't really want to charge anything, knowing that he did nothing, but didn't really want to not charge anything either. So in the end, my uncle gave him like $10. Needless to say, my uncle wasn't happy either, and even less after I did a bit of search on that model and found that those pots are for the RPMs on the motor and other was fine tunning on the focus (neither were for the laser current, and neither of which you are supposed to touch, unless you have an RPM meter and some other tools for changing adjustment.)

Anyways, it's shops like this that piss me off, because they don't do proper troubleshooting and really just give a bad reputation to the whole repair business scene.

Oh, and then my uncle went to another shop, but this one was the exact opposite: ultra-clean, big well-lit benches and... not a single technician working or single item anywhere, nor drawers/cabinets to store repair items in. Judging by the store front, which also had "hi-tech" items for sale (like the latest drones, VR sets, and etc.), it was pretty much clear to me that this was similar to the last shop where I worked at - i.e. it probably made most of its money through diagnostic fees and not actually fixing things. That's how it was, for the most part, at the shop where I worked at: accept any item, charge a fairly large repair fee upfront (regardless if the item is repaired or not) and then call the customer in maximum a few days saying the items is fixable or not (most of the time, if it wasn't something easy, the tech would just say "not repairable, come take it back.")

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Old 08-25-2019, 01:00 PM   #30
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Talking Re: Raidmax RX-600 ringing noise and 0ms PG

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On that note, my "bench" (or room / work area) isn't a perfect example either. But for the amount of stuff that I have, it's not bad. And I know where things are 99% of the time or where to find them if I don't remember exactly. "Organized pack-rat chaos" is probably a good description for it. For the small stray parts that get left over from repairs, I try to keep them in little cups or containers (sometimes parts from different items together). So it looks OK-ish, doesn't always make sense why certain items are together in a container, but generally I do remember that they are and where to find them. It's only the components I haven't used in over 2 years that get a little harder to find. But everything I use on a regular basis is on or near the bench and always in the same spot - no exceptions, especially for tools. I hate having to look for tools, so I always place them in the same exact spot in the same exact "order", even if it appears that there is a lack of one.
That perfectly describes that oldest guy here: his room is just like that, with all that stuff I said he kept storing over the years lying everywhere. To me, it's a disaster that should be cleared out ASAP, no exceptions, but he knows more or less where he keeps everything, despite being an apparent disaster with no rhyme or reason and no effort to sort anything based on type or category so to say. My former shop OTOH, being that I was the only one who worked there, was, what I consider to be a temple dedicated to the pure appreciation of the fine art of electronics *enter poetic junk here* I went to great lengths to keep it perfectly organized, knowing that it only makes my life easier. As a tech who needs to needs to get a lot of work done right and fast, I should NEVER have to struggle to find a certain value capacitor, resistor or a type of screw ! I shouldn't have to dig through a box of caps for 10 minutes until I find the one I need ! Drives me nuts and wastes time ! I got it down to the point where I sorted all my screws based on their M size (M3, M4, etc.) and length, each in their own drawer, complete with labels of course ! Same went for the nuts and washers. Caps and resistors were a no-brainer: each value had its own drawer, though I never liked sorting caps by voltage as well - eats up too many drawers that may only hold 1 cap, so I just kept all the voltage values together and simply picked the one I needed, no problem. Sadly, I had to leave all that behind and move on to......this, where everything is the opposite of what I stand for and makes my OCD run wild, making every day an endurance test. The really annoying part is that if you try and explain to them how things should be done or that their untidy style adds to the frustration, you get cold stares or you even get yelled at for trying to tidy up their sh!t...get this: I offer to put some order in their stuff, yet I am still the one who gets told off.....that's really fair, isn't it ? >_> Naturally, I gave up and only keep MY workbench tidy, which is often not enough, because I'm still faced with the issue of not having what I need when I need it and having to dig through sh!t. The boss agrees with me on this, but doesn't actively try to pursue the others to get their stuff in order - he just lets them be, not like he cares - but as I grow older here and HOPEFULLY others start to retire, it'll be my way all the way...maybe even get my own little office, which the old geezer already has That room's my target ATM ! Fingers crossed and wish me luck
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Old 09-01-2019, 06:00 PM   #31
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Default Re: Raidmax RX-600 ringing noise and 0ms PG

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That perfectly describes that oldest guy here: his room is just like that, with all that stuff I said he kept storing over the years lying everywhere. To me, it's a disaster that should be cleared out ASAP, no exceptions, but he knows more or less where he keeps everything, despite being an apparent disaster with no rhyme or reason and no effort to sort anything based on type or category so to say.
Well, I'd like to point out the slight differences between your colleague and myself.

For one, I don't keep everything on top of each other on my bench. Yes, there is one area like that, but it's mostly miniature test wires/jumpers and some various pieces of sand paper. For everything else, I don't stack things on top of each other - not unless things are in boxes. On that note, I probably do have a "box OCD", because almost everything I don't use particularly often goes in a box, and I have those boxes stacked up just about everywhere imaginable. That's what I mean by "pack-rat chaos".

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I got it down to the point where I sorted all my screws based on their M size (M3, M4, etc.) and length, each in their own drawer, complete with labels of course !
That kind of organization is nice, but it takes more space. So my screws are simply typically only organized by thread type (M3, M4, etc.) or device that they came from (for example, I don't have a whole lot of laptop screws, so they are all lumped together in a small bag.) My stash of PS3 and Xbox 360 screws is also all thrown together in one container (with the larger screws sitting in a sub-container inside), as there are only a few types of screws overall, so I know which one is which and thus don't need to sort them. On top of that, I also keep a stack of "inventory" flash cards where I write how much of each item I have in stock. So (usually) every time I take a screw or a cap out for a project, I note it down. If I have been lazy and haven't been doing that (can happen when I am doing something in a hurry), I do eventually do inventory counts every once in a rare while. So I catch up on what I have and what I don't.

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though I never liked sorting caps by voltage as well - eats up too many drawers that may only hold 1 cap, so I just kept all the voltage values together and simply picked the one I needed, no problem.
Indeed.
Since most of my caps come from Digikey, Mouser, and Badcaps.net, I keep them all in their original bags, all dumped into one box. Doesn't take any time to find anything. For the Xbox 360 pulls, I keep those in two jars: one for the "low voltage" caps (i.e. 2.5V, 4V, and 6.3V) and one for the "high-side" VRM caps (so only 16V caps.) The only caps that are not so organized are the crappy (but not-yet-failed) ones I keep from various hardware pulls for testing purposes - those are all put nicely in a small round container... but all voltages and capacitances are mixed together.

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I offer to put some order in their stuff, yet I am still the one who gets told off.....that's really fair, isn't it ? >_> Naturally, I gave up and only keep MY workbench tidy, which is often not enough, because I'm still faced with the issue of not having what I need when I need it and having to dig through sh!t.
As dis-organized as I may seem to you, I was actually also stuck in a situation similar to yours when I worked in two computer repair shops.
Worst part: since I always keep my tools organized (for other things, I'm not so strict), people would always go to my bench and take my tools. I did go hunt them down to give then back when they were done, though. So on that front, I did actually manage to get a good number of my colleagues a lot more organized - at least when I was there. If I missed a day or two... back to their own chaos.

Funny thing is, last computer repair place where I worked, there was one girl tech that was very very organized, but she never let anyone borrow or use her stuff and was quite vicious about it. After a while, I was the only one she'd let borrow stuff.

We even spent one day cleaning up the shop a bit when there wasn't as much to do. That actually inspired the other techs to clean up their areas too. And for a while, it worked and we kept it up. But, as the workload got heavier again, the more messy techs got back to their normal self. And I too, let my work area cleanness "slide" a little at those times.

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Old 09-07-2019, 09:31 AM   #32
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Talking Re: Raidmax RX-600 ringing noise and 0ms PG

Alright guys, here's the situation on this PSU. At long last, I finally got around to replacing that main cap and everything went great: not only was the cap the problem indeed, but the PCB already had holes in it for where a capacitor with larger "ox-horn" leads would go, so I didn't need to modify anything after all. Best of all, the PG issue is now gone too ! Strange that the cap affected that as well....don't know how.

The original cap had leaked through one of its leads which also caused it to corrode and broke off when I heated it to remove it. Notice all the brown deposits on the PCB around the hole there. It had absolutely no signs of bulging at the top, that's why I completely disregarded it at first, so hats off to the person who suggested it might be the culprit. Good thing to keep in mind in the future when the issue appears to be on the secondary

The PSU fired up perfectly, no more ringing noises, PG was within spec, all nice and stable. One slight issue I still have is that the fan doesn't spin for some reason, even after un-jamming it. Since it has a thermocouple attached to the output diode heatsink, the speed control circuit is either not operating at all or requires the thing to heat up considerably before it kicks in, which I doubt, because the PSU is too stock looking to have such a feature which my much more expensive Corsair HX1200 has, so I told my friend to actually fire up a PC with it, run some stress testing and carefully watch over it to see if it ever turns on and shut it off if things start to get too hot in there...simply wiring the fan to the 12v. output is the lazy way of fixing this, rather than bothering with figuring out why it's not PWM-ing
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Old 09-07-2019, 02:32 PM   #33
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Default Re: Raidmax RX-600 ringing noise and 0ms PG

Nice! I'm kinda surprised the PG issue was caused by the bad primary capacitor.

Some PSUs really do leave the fan off until things warm up. You can always try heating the sensor with hot air and see if the fan kicks in.
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Old 09-07-2019, 02:47 PM   #34
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Default Re: Raidmax RX-600 ringing noise and 0ms PG

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Nice! I'm kinda surprised the PG issue was caused by the bad primary capacitor.

Some PSUs really do leave the fan off until things warm up. You can always try heating the sensor with hot air and see if the fan kicks in.
It's also interesting to note that there's also a red latching push button on the back, next to the mains inlet, which upon first glance you might think is the main power switch, but it's not: it's already got the regular rocker main power switch next to that, so what's it for ? Looking inside, it's got some thin wires running in parallel (I THINK) to that NTC thermistor, so my guess is that the button shunts the thermistor to toggle between "full on" and "auto" operation of the fan, but nothing is happening regardless of whether it's pushed in or not, so it's likely the small circuit at fault....no idea how it operates, since I haven't dug deeper...
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Old 09-14-2019, 03:59 PM   #35
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Default Re: Raidmax RX-600 ringing noise and 0ms PG

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It had absolutely no signs of bulging at the top, that's why I completely disregarded it at first, so hats off to the person who suggested it might be the culprit. Good thing to keep in mind in the future when the issue appears to be on the secondary
You're welcome!

Okay, okay, I don't want to give myself too much credit... but yeah, I kinda did mention it in my first reply to the thread that replacing the primary cap could be behind at least one of the issues you were having. And it wasn't just a wild guess, either.

Now you know the drill. If you see PSU with APFC, always check the primary cap. This actually applies regardless if the cap is a known good Japanese brand or not. APFC PSUs simply put too much stress on them, especially if they are undersized (which is typically the case with the more "budget" models.) As of lately, I've started (as an experiment) putting polypropylene metal film caps in parallel with the primary caps of these APFC PSUs - typically about 1 to 3.3 uF. I figure the PP cap should help with absorbing some of the high frequency ripple current (due to its lower ESR) and relieve some of the stress from the primary electro cap. But we will see if this (experiment) works or not. At the very least, I expect the PP cap to act as a "fail-safe" reservoir: that is, if the primary electrolytic cap fails, the PP, even with its tiny capacitance, should provide enough storage to keep the APFC circuit voltage from spiking too high and killing silicone parts. But again, that's all a theory in my head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannyx View Post
simply wiring the fan to the 12v. output is the lazy way of fixing this, rather than bothering with figuring out why it's not PWM-ing
It would also make the PSU too loud and collect too much dust.
Connecting the fan to run on 7V (positive wire on 12V and negative on 5V) is equally lazy, but should at least make the fan a lot more quiet while still pushing a good amount of air. Only con with doing that is, if the PSU runs very hot under high load and expects the fan to run at 12V to keep it cool, you'll have a problem. So it's possible that the PSU may no longer be able to provide "full power" with the 7V fan mod. Of course, if the PSU will never be used under 100% full load, then this mod will be good enough. I have a few PSUs of my own wired like that, because the PCs they are in will never put a load large enough on them to require the fans to speed up more than the 7V mod I am running them on.

Last edited by momaka; 09-14-2019 at 04:05 PM..
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