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    Old workstation cards uses?

    I bought 4 each of Nvidia Quadro FX 3450 PCI-E cards for less than $10 each.
    What can I use them for other than CAD? Retro gaming?

    #2
    Re: Old workstation cards uses?

    Yup.
    CAD/rendering and retro gaming (up to mid-2000's games) sounds about right.

    The Quadro FX 3450 appears to be based on the NV41 GPU chip - i.e. same stuff that goes into the vanilla (non-GT) GeForce 6800, if I am not mistaken. It's a DirectX 9c card, so it's pretty outdated now. Probably best to run it with a Windows XP PC.

    As for games, at best I think it will handle a few of the older Vavle's Source engine games like Half-Life 2 and Counter-Strike Source at medium settings and low resolutions (1024x768 or lower).
    Last edited by momaka; 04-08-2018, 12:31 AM.

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      #3
      Re: Old workstation cards uses?

      Originally posted by momaka View Post
      Yup.
      CAD/rendering and retro gaming (up to mid-2000's games) sounds about right.
      And, their utility in CAD is probably limited (e.g., real time rendering/shading if you want to interact with a 3D model).

      I use a pair of them on each of my Software Development and Desktop Publishing workstations -- primarily to give me support for extra monitors (neither set of applications is particularly "hard" on a video card... just give me lots of pixels and display real-estate)

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Old workstation cards uses?

        Yes, given their vintage, it's probably best to run CAD software from the same era too.

        That said, I wouldn't use these cards just for driving extra monitors, if I had a choice to buy something else and didn't need the "horsepower" they offer. The primary reason for that is power consumption: these nVidia NV41 GPUs are old and don't scale down on their power consumption that well when idle. Thus expect at least 35-40 Watts of power use in idle mode for each of these GPUs. A low-end GPU that is 2-4 generations newer, on the other hand, will often perform almost equally well at 1/3 to 1/4 of that power consumption.

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          #5
          Re: Old workstation cards uses?

          Originally posted by momaka View Post
          That said, I wouldn't use these cards just for driving extra monitors, if I had a choice to buy something else and didn't need the "horsepower" they offer. The primary reason for that is power consumption: these nVidia NV41 GPUs are old and don't scale down on their power consumption that well when idle. Thus expect at least 35-40 Watts of power use in idle mode for each of these GPUs. A low-end GPU that is 2-4 generations newer, on the other hand, will often perform almost equally well at 1/3 to 1/4 of that power consumption.
          And replace each pair of 24" LCD monitors with LED variants; and the workstations with more energy efficient units, and the spinning rust with SSDs, ...

          No thanks. Dirt cheap/free hardware can buy a boatload of electrons!

          Assuming your figures:
          • Inefficient GPU = 40W*8Hrs/day*250 days/yr = 80KWHr
          • Efficient GPU = 1/4*80KWHr = 20KWHr
          Net savings, over the course of a work-year = 60KWHr @ ~$0.16/KWHr = ~$10

          How much "efficient GPU" can you get for $10?

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            #6
            Re: Old workstation cards uses?

            Originally posted by Curious.George View Post
            How much "efficient GPU" can you get for $10?
            OEM versions of the Radeon HD2400 Pro/XT, HD3450, or HD5450. They actually go for much cheaper than that ($3 to $4 shipped to your door).The catch is that these OEM ones have a DMS-59 connector, so you need the special DMS-59 to Dual-DVI or VGA cable adapter. However, it's not uncommon to find auctions on eBay that include the cable with video card for around $8-12 total (with shipping).

            Also, these Radeon cards are overall better than the NV41/NV42 both in terms of performance and features (they are DX10 capable). Moreover, they are not that much newer, so they will still run well even on older OSes like Windows XP and 2000.

            Originally posted by Curious.George View Post
            And replace each pair of 24" LCD monitors with LED variants; and the workstations with more energy efficient units, and the spinning rust with SSDs, ...
            I never implied any of that. Clearly you haven't read many of my posts here if you think I did.

            Generally, I am all for reusing old stuff, even if it is sometimes less energy efficient (heck, I have three big-ass CRTs on my desk as I type this). But when it comes to video cards, I don't like high-power ones unless I specifically need it (be it rendering or games). The reason to aim for lower-power GPUs is not only associated costs/year. If that's all you see, you're blind. A power-hungry GPU means more heat inside the case (or more fans/ventilation to deal away with that), more heat for my house AC to deal with in the summer (plus making the room more uncomfortable unless I bump up the AC), and most of all - more *noise* (because I know for a fact how loud the fans on those NV41/NV42 GPUs are). In comparison, the Radeon cards I mentioned above will be much more quiet (even silent, if using Windows Vista or newer, due to downclocking and turning off the fan) and on top of that run cooler too both under load and in idle. This brings me to another point - reliability. Cool GPUs tend to last longer. That's why there are so many of these Radeon cards on eBay now - they run cool and thus almost never fail.
            Last edited by momaka; 04-11-2018, 10:52 PM.

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              #7
              Re: Old workstation cards uses?

              Originally posted by momaka View Post
              OEM versions of the Radeon HD2400 Pro/XT, HD3450, or HD5450. They actually go for much cheaper than that ($3 to $4 shipped to your door).The catch is that these OEM ones have a DMS-59 connector, so you need the special DMS-59 to Dual-DVI or VGA cable adapter. However, it's not uncommon to find auctions on eBay that include the cable with video card for around $8-12 total (with shipping).

              Also, these Radeon cards are overall better than the NV41/NV42 both in terms of performance and features (they are DX10 capable). Moreover, they are not that much newer, so they will still run well even on older OSes like Windows XP and 2000.
              And when (as well as how often) do I perform these upgrades/replacements? I.e., do I take the CAD system that WAS using the video cards and replace those cards to build a better CAD workstation? Or, do I reinstall the OS image (OS+drivers but no apps) -- 10 minutes -- and, instead, move the DTP apps onto that old CAD workstation, discarding the old DTP workstation hardware and introducing new CAD workstation hardware?

              Who pays for the time it takes me to research "what's current" and make the cost/value tradeoff each time I update? How much risk is there to installing "new(er)" and wondering what issues will arise vs the existing hardware/software mix is already "verified" from lots of actual use? (hint: I never install software "updates" once a system is built and configured as it risks breaking something that is already known to be working)

              [other ways of saving power/BTUs through equipment replacements]

              I never implied any of that. Clearly you haven't read many of my posts here if you think I did.
              But that's what your post said:
              The primary reason for that is power consumption...
              Power consumption is one of the least important issues for me. I can buy power. I can't buy extra hours in a day (to address more upgrades, troubleshooting, etc.). I can't buy increased software reliability (in the range of applications that I rely upon).

              In the ~30 years I've been in business, I've spent ~$500K on software and hardware -- instead of an even greater amount in "lost opportunity" (i.e., if I had, instead, tried to save a few bucks by cutting corners). Early on, I realized that damn near all "PC" (and PC-related) hardware are commodity items that should be treated as disposable (not "long term assets"). My "value added" lies in the IP that I develop -- and that can only be done with "meatware-hours".

              An unfortunate consequence of the disposability of PC kit is that it takes time to replace and that time comes out of the "meatware" budget -- if I'm thinking about hardware/software upgrades, then I'm not developing new IP!

              So, unless there is an overwhelming need to move hardware/software forward (to a newer release), just keep what you have -- you KNOW all of its quirks -- and save all of that "upgrade" time and uncertainty. (I don't need to brag about how fast my systems are; what I value is how little time I NEED to spend on work-related issues!)

              I'll spend my "hardware budget" on things that I can't easily get for free or "continue maintaining" -- test equipment, new licenses, components for prototypes, outsourcing, service bureaus, etc.

              That doesn't mean planting yourself in the past. Rather, it means you don't casually move forward without a genuine assessment of what the costs of doing so will entail and the benefits that you are likely to accrue as a result!

              So, I'll try a new release of one of my existing apps (free trial or actual paid update) -- but on a virgin machine so I can see what it offers me in terms of functionality and performance. Will it force me to move to newer hardware? Will that newer hardware force me to move to a newer OS?? Will that newer OS force me to upgrade other apps or peripherals??? How steep will the relearning curve be? Will previously created objects still work??
              Without a notable increase in performance, reliability or capability, it's a safer bet to just leave things as they are (in a KNOWN state, already configured, and with known bugs -- and workarounds!).

              The same philosophy applies to hardware upgrades. A doubling of (overall) performance appears as a doubling of throughput -- but only in server applications (i.e., serve twice as many web pages per hour, twice as many names resolved, twice as many files served, etc.). Each a NON-INTERACTIVE application.

              By contrast, anything that involves thinking is invariably limited by meatware. Cut the overhead incurred by the software and hardware "aids" to zero and you're still limited by how fast (and reliably) you can think (about what to do next) and "move your fingers". Writing code (drawing illustrations, designing a schematic, etc.) on a "386" takes just as much "elapsed time" as solving one on "tomorrow's" hardware. And, when you are paid based on the code you write, schematics you design or illustrations you create, the number of "wasted CPU cycles" doesn't factor in!

              I had a colleague who was always "upgrading" his hardware and software. And, ragging on those of us (me, in particular) who dragged our feet ("If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"). At one of our semiannual gatherings, as he was showing off his latest and greatest laptop, I came up with a set of "challenges" for him to demonstrate how much more "productive" he was as a result of this faster machine/software (cuz something has to compensate for the time and money he spent DOING that upgrade -- unless he's just got lots of free/unbillable time on his hands!). Over the course of the week, we each took on "challenges" from our peers and timed our individual performance on the tasks (including any time required to correct errors).

              It was a "wash" (i.e., within a few percent) -- despite the fact that I had deliberately chosen for my system a box that was ~100 times slower than his! Having a faster car doesn't get you across town much faster!

              (Yeah, he still shows up with "more recent" systems than any of us... but, he's a lot more humble about how he rationalizes his purchases! Now, he only has to argue with Uncle Sam about whether it was a justifiable deduction instead of trying to prove it to us!)

              Generally, I am all for reusing old stuff, even if it is sometimes less energy efficient (heck, I have three big-ass CRTs on my desk as I type this).
              CRTs, disks, keyboards, etc. -- things with well defined interfaces -- are no-brainers to update. I knew before I replaced the eight 20 inch monitors on my desk with 24 inch units EXACTLY how big that job would be. I didn't worry that there would be some incompatibility or "new bug" that I might be introducing.

              Instead of upgrading workstations (hardware), I now just rescue identical units as "cold spares" -- just like keyboards (another thread), mice, monitors, video cards, SCSI/SAS HBAs, etc. If something goes wrong, I just pull the drives, memory and cards and move them into a "spare" machine. No real "upgrade" involved (so no real risk/cost!). For example, I'll be picking up another Z800 next week...

              But, then again, rescues are pretty easy for me to acquire

              But when it comes to video cards, I don't like high-power ones unless I specifically need it (be it rendering or games). The reason to aim for lower-power GPUs is not only associated costs/year. If that's all you see, you're blind. A power-hungry GPU means more heat inside the case (or more fans/ventilation to deal away with that), more heat for my house AC to deal with in the summer (plus making the room more uncomfortable unless I bump up the AC), and most of all - more *noise* (because I know for a fact how loud the fans on those NV41/NV42 GPUs are).
              Aren't those just additional "costs/year"?

              The difference between a 40W and 10W card (as you suggested upthread) amounts to ~100 BTU. A "window air conditioner" is typically 5,000BTU. A human body is about 350BTU. You're electric bill and cooling load will be much more impacted by the presence of the PC in that room than the "inefficient" GPU.

              As to audible noise, you can't really hear any of my workstations; this, despite the fact that they may have several fans and disks that also generate mechanical noise. They are located on the floor beneath the worksurface instead of in-line with your ears. Even with my music off, the room is very quiet.

              By contrast, this AiO machine has its fans and disk drive at roughly the same level as my head (i.e., behind the display). So, I am far more aware of them -- though still not "noisey". (No need for a second head on this machine nor fancy graphics as its just used for email and web access).

              In comparison, the Radeon cards I mentioned above will be much more quiet (even silent, if using Windows Vista or newer, due to downclocking and turning off the fan) and on top of that run cooler too both under load and in idle. This brings me to another point - reliability. Cool GPUs tend to last longer. That's why there are so many of these Radeon cards on eBay now - they run cool and thus almost never fail.
              The FX3450 is ~13 years old. Mine have been running reliably since they were installed, many years ago. If they fail, I'll drag another(s) out of the box labeled "VIDEO" in the garage. I won't replace them with something else (more powerful, less power-hungry, quieter, etc.) unless I'm also prepared to rebuild the workstation involved (very, very rarely, as should be evident from my comments, here). Note (from the GPU thread) that I've never had a GPU fail.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Old workstation cards uses?

                Originally posted by Curious.George View Post
                And when (as well as how often) do I perform these upgrades/replacements?
                Again, you are imagining words that I didn't say.

                I did NOT tell anyone to upgrade their GPU. I merely suggested that there are "better" GPU alternatives (mainly to the O/P) that one can get for $10. That's it. Nothing more and nothing less!

                Originally posted by Curious.George View Post
                hint: I never install software "updates" once a system is built and configured as it risks breaking something that is already known to be working)
                Same here.

                Originally posted by Curious.George View Post
                But that's what your post said
                NO, wrong.

                My post did NOT say, everyone should replace thier hardware with more power-efficient one, like you seem to imply. It said this:
                That said, I wouldn't use these cards just for driving extra monitors, if I had a choice to buy something else and didn't need the "horsepower" they offer.
                Which simply meant, if I was building a "new" system and given the chance to choosing a GPU for it (assuming I don't already have anything in stock), I'd chose this one over that one.

                Originally posted by Curious.George View Post
                Power consumption is one of the least important issues for me.
                There you go, you said it yourself: it is the least important issue for you. But not everyone thinks like you nor has the same requirements as you.

                Originally posted by Curious.George View Post
                I can buy power. I can't buy extra hours in a day (to address more upgrades, troubleshooting, etc.).
                Yet, you have time to make a pretty darn long reply to my posts.
                Hmmm....

                Originally posted by Curious.George View Post
                So, unless there is an overwhelming need to move hardware/software forward (to a newer release), just keep what you have -- you KNOW all of its quirks -- and save all of that "upgrade" time and uncertainty.
                WE GET IT.
                (And I do things the same way too here.)

                But again, to make it clear (specifically for you), let me just repeat that I did NOT say that the O/P should absolutely necessarily upgrade his Quadro FX 3450 for something "newer and better" (which you keep implying with your long post! WHY?). Rather, I simply gave MY opinion of how I would spend $10 if given the choice to get a new used GPU.

                Originally posted by Curious.George View Post
                Aren't those just additional "costs/year"?
                Not necessarily.

                Noise is certainly not a cost. My computers are already loud enough as they are. I don't need more noise from a power-hungry GPU if I don't need its features or if I can get the same features for a similarly-priced GPU that uses much less power.

                Originally posted by Curious.George View Post
                The difference between a 40W and 10W card (as you suggested upthread) amounts to ~100 BTU.
                And with two of such GPUs, the heat can quickly add up inside the computer unless you install more fans which, again, raises noise and often reduces hardware reliability/longitivity.

                Originally posted by Curious.George View Post
                A "window air conditioner" is typically 5,000BTU.
                A window AC is a piece of shit contraption. I'm not going to say more on that matter here.

                Originally posted by Curious.George View Post
                You're electric bill and cooling load will be much more impacted by the presence of the PC in that room than the "inefficient" GPU.
                Not necessarily. Depends on the PC configuration you have. A 40 Watt GPU could pretty much double the dissipation of your PC if you have a low-power PC. Most of my Core 2 Duo and AMD Athlon systems idle around 40-60 Watts with their Radeon HD2400 GPUs. Adding a second GPU for quad monitor output would only raise my power use by 10 W. Meanwhile, with two 40W cards, my system power use will go up to 110-130 W.

                Originally posted by Curious.George View Post
                They are located on the floor beneath the worksurface instead of in-line with your ears.
                As are my PCs. And I have carpet, which helps even more with the noise.

                But that won't stop a 50-60 mm Delta leaf blower fan (that those Quadro GPUs have) from being heard. I've tested plenty of video cards like that (and including a few similar Quadros) - in different PC cases too. Overall, they are louder than I like.

                Originally posted by Curious.George View Post
                Even with my music off, the room is very quiet.
                Does that suggest that your room is relatively quiet with music too?
                Hmmm.. Something tells me we have very different perceptions of what "quiet" is.

                Originally posted by Curious.George View Post
                The FX3450 is ~13 years old. Mine have been running reliably since they were installed, many years ago.
                The HD2400 isn't that much newer: only 10 years old. HD3450 is 9 years, and HD4350 also about 9 years. They are all actually the same GPU just shrunk down to a smaller processing tech with each model.

                Again, given the wide availability of these used GPUs online, it's clear that they are reliable.

                Originally posted by Curious.George View Post
                Note (from the GPU thread) that I've never had a GPU fail.
                I haven't either. But I have bought plenty of ones that have failed.

                High load/stress + high ambient/room temperatures is the quickest way to shorten the lifespan of a GPU. That said, some GPUs are just tougher than others. The NV41/NV42 GPU (that the Quadro FX 3450 has) is overall okay in my experience. They'll last when put in a well cooled environment - something that my room is NOT. Meanwhile, those OEM (actively-cooled) HD2400 and HD3450 cards can take the heat abuse from my room without any problems. Max temperature I ever recorded on my Dell HD2400 XT is 67C under 100% load for 3 hours... which frankly I think is quite high. But it's nowhere near the maximum temperature of a Quadro FX 3450, which will easily reach 80C with the same ambient temperatures at full load in less than 30 minutes.

                Originally posted by Curious.George View Post
                Having a faster car doesn't get you across town much faster!
                Sure. Why don't you take a Yugo while I take any respectable modern vehicle so we can see.
                As long as there isn't too much traffic, I think I know how this will end.
                Last edited by momaka; 04-13-2018, 12:35 AM.

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                  #9
                  Re: Old workstation cards uses?

                  Good discussion all round. Learned about the pro & con.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Old workstation cards uses?

                    Thanks guys for all the extra info on these graphics cards. I bought these cards because of the cheap price and that I read that they were very similar to the 6800 pci-e in performance. I have quite a few of the GF 6800 AGP and 7800 Agp cards in my collection but only one or two of the PCI-E variants of both series. It is getting difficult to find the high end Nvidia 6 and 7 series AGP cards on eBay at affordable prices now. I was intending to use these workstation cards for maybe test cards in found motherboards as well as sacrificial SETI@HOME, FOLDING, etc. Maybe some lite gaming. That way it saves ware and tare on my high dollar cards. Wasting electrical power does not bother me; my electric is free here.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Old workstation cards uses?

                      Originally posted by momaka View Post
                      Which simply meant, if I was building a "new" system and given the chance to choosing a GPU for it (assuming I don't already have anything in stock), I'd chose this one over that one.
                      The OP didn't say "he was building a new system and had his choice of anything he wanted". Rather, he said he "bought 4 for < $10/ea" and inquired as to how to use them. I.e., he's already made the purchase and is now looking for a use. He hasn't said that tossing them away and buying something else is a viable option.

                      This is directly analagous to my example of repurposing an old CAD workstation's hardware/OS to serve as an upgraded DTP workstation; the "purchase" had already been made (equipment-on-hand) and was a step up from the kit that was previously being used for the DTP workstation.

                      There you go, you said it yourself: it is the least important issue for you. But not everyone thinks like you nor has the same requirements as you.
                      Correct. I'm offering MY opinions of how they can be used -- and my rationale for why I've used them in that manner. Didn't you offer your opinions??

                      Yet, you have time to make a pretty darn long reply to my posts.
                      Hmmm....
                      I type fast. And, have little to do while waiting for each of these individual downloads to finish so I can start the next. (this is the only machine that is allowed to talk to the outside world so I can't do any "work" while seated here; nor can I do any downloads while seated at any of my air-gapped workstations! should I, instead, amuse myself with YT videos??)

                      But again, to make it clear (specifically for you), let me just repeat that I did NOT say that the O/P should absolutely necessarily upgrade his Quadro FX 3450 for something "newer and better" (which you keep implying with your long post! WHY?). Rather, I simply gave MY opinion of how I would spend $10 if given the choice to get a new used GPU.
                      And I didn't say that you said the OP should upgrade his FX3450. Rather, I commented on your reasoning as to why it was a "bad choice" due to power consumption (despite the fact that the OP's choice had already been made!)

                      And with two of such GPUs, the heat can quickly add up inside the computer unless you install more fans which, again, raises noise and often reduces hardware reliability/longitivity.
                      I live in the desert. The office is at the far end of the HVAC distribution system. There is no "return" duct in that room (so, the "exhaust" air has to make its way back to the HVAC system by exiting through the office doorway and flowing down the hall). The HVAC thermostat is located some 20+ feet away. The room is the smallest in the house. I.e., this is probably the worst place in the house for HVAC control. Yet, it is never anymore uncomfortable than any other place in the house interior (we keep the house at 79F during the non-winter months).
                      "Gee, I should replace these video cards so this room won't be so HOT!"

                      A window AC is a piece of shit contraption. I'm not going to say more on that matter here.
                      I offered it as a relatable benchmark: most people are familiar with the size and comfort levels of a window air conditioner in a single bedroom (yet clueless as to the number of BTUs their whole-house AC delivers). So, it's a great way to explain what 5,000BTU -- and, by extension, 100 BTU -- feels like. I doubt many folks would relate to expressing this as "the heat required to raise 100 pounds of water 1 degree F over the course of an hour".

                      OTOH, I think they can imagine 1/50th of the window unit cooling 1/50th of the space.

                      Does that suggest that your room is relatively quiet with music too?
                      Hmmm.. Something tells me we have very different perceptions of what "quiet" is.
                      Yes. My other half sleeps in the bedroom adjacent. I work during the nighttime hours so she would note if anything was overly loud RUNNING ALL NIGHT (music is routed to BT headset, then) -- especially something as annoyingly monotonous as a tiny fan!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Old workstation cards uses?

                        As an added curiousity as to my interest in these old workstation graphics cards, i have a fascination of interest in high end socket 939 motherboards and Nvidia 8800 and 9800 cards. It seems the bigger the better.

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                          #13
                          Re: Old workstation cards uses?

                          Originally posted by Sparkey55 View Post
                          I have quite a few of the GF 6800 AGP and 7800 Agp cards in my collection but only one or two of the PCI-E variants of both series. It is getting difficult to find the high end Nvidia 6 and 7 series AGP cards on eBay at affordable prices now.
                          I don't think I have any AGP machines left, anymore. So, I only keep PCIe video cards (and a few PCI video cards as many servers don't speak PCIe). The AGP cards I use "like cigarettes in a prison": to swap for other cards of equivalent size and weight (recyclers are usually unconcerned with a card's capabilities but, rather, their weight and amount of gold on their fingers) but of greater "value" to me.

                          I was intending to use these workstation cards for maybe test cards in found motherboards as well as sacrificial SETI@HOME, FOLDING, etc.
                          Hmmm... perhaps I should think about holding onto one or two AGP's for similar reasons. I will have to make a conscious effort to see how many AGP machines I typically come across in my rescues...

                          Can't you run these boxes headless? Aren't those just "compute servers"? (sorry, only vaguely familiar with those apps) E.g., my scanner servers and network storage servers are small/SBC computers that have neither monitors nor keyboards -- nor disks! I access them over the network when I have to interact with them.

                          That way it saves ware and tare on my high dollar cards.
                          Once a card finds its way into a machine, I try to let it stay there "forever". E.g., I have a pair of FX5800's in my EDA workstation (due for an upgrade). The notable exception would be some of the (antique) ISA cards that I have as my sole ISA machine only supports two slots (so I have to swap cards in/out depending on what I want to do with that machine, at the time)!

                          Wasting electrical power does not bother me; my electric is free here.
                          I suspect most of us pay for electricity But, I think our water bill is consistently higher than our electric bill so its not that much of an issue (I think we pay $0.11/KWHr).

                          OTOH, I've been rescuing 300W solar panels, lately, with the goal of powering the new network switch off of a DC supply (and, for free!)...

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Old workstation cards uses?

                            Once a card finds its way into a machine, I try to let it stay there "forever". E.g., I have a pair of FX5800's in my EDA workstation (due for an upgrade). The notable exception would be some of the (antique) ISA cards that I have as my sole ISA machine only supports two slots (so I have to swap cards in/out depending on what I want to do with that machine, at the time)!

                            I am constantly building up rigs to test and bench hardware with. I just recently built my own motherboard test station out of wood and it beats using a box.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Old workstation cards uses?

                              Originally posted by Sparkey55 View Post
                              I am constantly building up rigs to test and bench hardware with. I just recently built my own motherboard test station out of wood and it beats using a box.
                              Fair enough. Note that one down-side of a card like the 3450 in this sort of setup is that it is relatively heavy and will have a higher "center of gravity" (than a low profile card). Add to that the auxillary power connection and the video cable and you might be at increased risk of the card "tilting" in its socket (putting mechanical stress on the socket and/or board fingers).

                              You might consider making a "helper card" (cut all the traces to the card's fingers) to plug into an adjacent (typically PCI) slot and brace the video card (like a crutch).

                              Also consider buying some nylon standoffs to prop the board up off the wooden base (bottom of board may not be "flat"). I use 1/2" x 1/2" nylon bars that I can distribute under any board that I'm servicing (to support it wherever it might need supporting).

                              How do you handle the attachment of large coolers? Typ these anchor to the chassis UNDER the motherboard, not the motherboard itself...

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Re: Old workstation cards uses?

                                Originally posted by Curious.George View Post
                                Fair enough. Note that one down-side of a card like the 3450 in this sort of setup is that it is relatively heavy and will have a higher "center of gravity" (than a low profile card). Add to that the auxillary power connection and the video cable and you might be at increased risk of the card "tilting" in its socket (putting mechanical stress on the socket and/or board fingers).

                                You might consider making a "helper card" (cut all the traces to the card's fingers) to plug into an adjacent (typically PCI) slot and brace the video card (like a crutch).

                                Also consider buying some nylon standoffs to prop the board up off the wooden base (bottom of board may not be "flat"). I use 1/2" x 1/2" nylon bars that I can distribute under any board that I'm servicing (to support it wherever it might need supporting).

                                How do you handle the attachment of large coolers? Typ these anchor to the chassis UNDER the motherboard, not the motherboard itself...
                                I designed my test bench platform using 6/32 3/4" long bolts and nuts going through a 3/16" fiber board motherboard tray. I just lower the motherboard down onto the bolts resting the motherboard 1/4" above a double stack of nuts. A aluminum bar mounts at each end of the platform to attach VGA and other cards to, Under the platform is the PSU with brackets to hold it in place. I even installed a cage to hold a floppy drive, two HDD and at least one ODD.

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                                  #17
                                  Re: Old workstation cards uses?

                                  Originally posted by Sparkey55 View Post
                                  Thanks guys for all the extra info on these graphics cards. I bought these cards because of the cheap price and that I read that they were very similar to the 6800 pci-e in performance. I have quite a few of the GF 6800 AGP and 7800 Agp cards in my collection but only one or two of the PCI-E variants of both series. It is getting difficult to find the high end Nvidia 6 and 7 series AGP cards on eBay at affordable prices now.
                                  Yes, the prices on many of the high-end AGP video cards have gone through the roof in the last year or so. And currently, it seems that high-end cards like the GeForce FX5900 and 7800GS have the highest prices (saw a few auctions end last week for more than $100... and in the case of one "rare" FX5900, more than $400!!!). Nonetheless, it is still possible to find a very good deal once in a while on eBay (less than $20 shipped for a high-end AGP card - I saw a 7800 GS go for $25 shipped last week, which is a steal considering they often *sell* for $50+ (not to be confused with asking price)).

                                  As for the PCI-E versions of the GeForce 6 and 7 series... yes, they are getting a bit harder to find now than they were 1-2 years ago and their prices have gone up a bit. But it's still not too rare to find one for about $10-20 shipped. I grabbed a few some years ago when they were cheaper. Also managed to rescue a 7800 GTX from work that was sitting in a drawer with a bunch of other video cards that we used for testing. The thing is, no one ever used that 7800 GTX, and most techs were man-handling the other cards all the time. Thus, the 7800 GTX ended up with a lot of broken SMD caps and would not get detected on a PC. Given its vintage, I figured it wouldn't be missed, and when I got the green light to take it, I did and managed to fix it easily with parts from other stuff. Works great now.

                                  Originally posted by Sparkey55 View Post
                                  Wasting electrical power does not bother me; my electric is free here.
                                  Here it's not expensive either. But I prefer to try to save power mostly to conserve resources, not because of global warming / climate change (I can't say I'm a believer nor a denier either), but because I was raised with that mindset (i.e. turn off the lights in a room when not used, and etc.)

                                  Originally posted by Sparkey55 View Post
                                  As an added curiousity as to my interest in these old workstation graphics cards, i have a fascination of interest in high end socket 939 motherboards and Nvidia 8800 and 9800 cards. It seems the bigger the better.
                                  Nice to see more people collecting older hardware here. I, too, like socket 939 boards a lot, though I rarely go for the high-end ones due to price (particularly the SLI-capable ones).

                                  The nVidia GeForce 8800 and 9800 cards are still respectable cards even today. But I don't like the single-slot GT versions or the 8800 GTS/GTX/Ultra too much due to reliability issues, which stems mostly from inadequate cooling on these cards (they really need bigger coolers). Otherwise, they often run over 60C in idle mode and easily hit 80-85°C in games or other heavy GPU load. The GT cards have lower TDP, though, so they can be upgraded with better coolers. But the GTS/GTX/Ultra really needs either water cooling or something insane like the coolers on the current ASUS ROG gaming video cards. 140-180 Watts of heat (for the GTS, GTX, and Ultra) is no joke.

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                                    #18
                                    Re: Old workstation cards uses?

                                    Originally posted by Curious.George View Post
                                    The OP didn't say "he was building a new system and had his choice of anything he wanted". Rather, he said he "bought 4 for < $10/ea" and inquired as to how to use them. I.e., he's already made the purchase and is now looking for a use. He hasn't said that tossing them away and buying something else is a viable option.
                                    And I did NOT suggest for him to do that either. So what is your point?!

                                    Originally posted by Curious.George View Post
                                    Correct. I'm offering MY opinions of how they can be used -- and my rationale for why I've used them in that manner.
                                    Indeed you did. But my main gripe is with the way you did it, making a rather mocking comment of my statements when I offered a suggestion for a different video card, as if everything I said had no credibility at all.
                                    This, in particular:
                                    Originally posted by Curious.George
                                    And replace each pair of 24" LCD monitors with LED variants; and the workstations with more energy efficient units, and the spinning rust with SSDs, ...
                                    Originally posted by Curious.George View Post
                                    I live in the desert. The office is at the far end of the HVAC distribution system. The HVAC thermostat is located some 20+ feet away. The room is the smallest in the house. I.e., this is probably the worst place in the house for HVAC control. Yet, it is never anymore uncomfortable than any other place in the house interior (we keep the house at 79F during the non-winter months).
                                    "Gee, I should replace these video cards so this room won't be so HOT!"
                                    Laugh all you want, but those two video cards can impact the temperature of your room. The room where I have most of my computers has similarly bad heating and cooling (particularly in the sumer and winter seasons) to yours.

                                    Running just one of my computers will make enough of a difference to raise the temperature by one to three degrees, depending on which PC I am using and for how long. This is a welcomed side-effect in the winter, when I let the house temperatures slide all the way down to around 17-18°C (about 62 to 65°F). But in the summer (we also keep the house AC at 79°F), going from a rather toasty (IMO) room temperature of 27-28°C (approx. 81-83°F) to an even more toasty 29-30°C (84-86°F) is absolutely perceptible. And instead of running the entire house AC harder to cool that one room, I'd rather just not produce the heat in the first place if that's possible and doesn't present a potential technical problem (like it might in your case.)

                                    As I stated, most of my PCs use about 50-70 Watts in idle. Doubling that will be like running two of my PCs at once - which I do once in a blue moon. When I do that in the summer, the room temperature rises another 1-2 degrees. The dissipation of two 40W cards is pretty much equal to me running another PC.

                                    Now, how I measure the temperature: I have two thermometers in that room - a digital one sitting a foot off the floor and an analogue one sitting at eye-level. Both are calibrated, are not near any windows, AC vents, or doors, and show the same temperature at all ranges I've had my room vary so far. I have this setup, because I often perform video card torture tests in there. Knowing the room temperature allows me to see how a video card's cooler performs.

                                    Because of this, I am often used to keeping an eye on my room temperature. The temperature variations mentioned above are not a one or two time anomalies, but solid averages I've noted over the last 3 years.

                                    Originally posted by Curious.George View Post
                                    My other half sleeps in the bedroom adjacent. I work during the nighttime hours so she would note if anything was overly loud RUNNING ALL NIGHT (music is routed to BT headset, then) -- especially something as annoyingly monotonous as a tiny fan!
                                    Like I said, we just different perceptions then.

                                    A monotonous scream/hum/whirl/whine (or however you wish to describe it) from a tiny fan tends to wear me out after a while. Thus, any 60 mm and smaller fan better be turning very slow, or else I'll rip it out and replace it with something bigger.

                                    The HD2400/HD3450 cards rarely run their fans past 13% PWM (even under 100% GPU load), which is audible but not annoying at all. In contrast, the fans on stock GeForce 6 and 7 series cards as well as many Quadros from the same era, are often too loud IMO, especially under load.

                                    Originally posted by Curious.George View Post
                                    The AGP cards I use "like cigarettes in a prison": to swap for other cards of equivalent size and weight (recyclers are usually unconcerned with a card's capabilities but, rather, their weight and amount of gold on their fingers) but of greater "value" to me.
                                    And that can give you even more of an "edge" over regular recyclers, since they don't know the price of those AGP cards.

                                    Originally posted by Curious.George View Post
                                    Hmmm... perhaps I should think about holding onto one or two AGP's for similar reasons.
                                    Consider this: high-end AGP cards are worth a good "chunk of change" these days on sites like eBay. So definitely consider saving any that you come across if they are considered mid or high-range.

                                    The ones to really look out for on the nVidia side:
                                    GeForce 3
                                    GeForce 4 TI4400 and TI4600. (The TI4200 is also getting more rare and going up in price now)
                                    GeForce FX5700, FX5800, FX5900 or FX5950 (really high $$$ now)
                                    GeForce 6600 GT and 6800 [vanilla]/GT/Ultra. GeForce 6200... eh, not that valuable.
                                    GeForce 7600, 7800, and 7950 (also high $$$ now)
                                    That said, also look for the Quadro-equivalent of these too.

                                    On the ATI-side of things, these are the really high-$$ cards:
                                    Radeon HD4650 and HD3870

                                    ... but these can also be fairly worthwhile (usually selling for $20-60 per card):
                                    HD3650, HD2600, X1950, X800/X850 Pro/XL/XT, and 9700/9800 Pro/XL/XT.

                                    And last but not least, anything with "VooDoo" in the name, definitely save it. If you get one in the original box, consider it like getting a small free retirement fund.

                                    Also, don't ask me why these AGP cards above are worth so much... they just are, and people will bid stupid amount of money on them these days... at least these are my observations of following auctions websites for the last few years.
                                    Last edited by momaka; 04-13-2018, 09:44 PM.

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                                      #19
                                      Re: Old workstation cards uses?

                                      I usually cool those single slot cards with two 60mm fans; one aimed at the cards input fan and another aimed at the hot air outlet wich also tends to cool any Southbridge chipset coolers (looking at you Gigabyte NF4 mobos) that have tiny heatsinks.

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