Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

[c_hegge]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

I hate to dig up an old thread, but Corsair's new RM650 and RM550 use almost entirely CapXon on the output (although the 5vsb has NCC). The worst part is, it's fanless for the first 250W or so

[goodpsusearch]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

Wasn't this series supposed to be ultra high end?

[Behemot]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

Got pics?

[sententia]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

Just saw this thread. I have to input that i also have a cx430 v2 builder and it has been running for two years now 24/7. It is working on a liteweight pc with just two scsi disks. I didn't bother to check what capacitors it came when i bought it.

Anyway fingers crossed!

[RJARRRPCGP]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

The worst part is, it's fanless for the first 250W or so

Looks like a deja vu of the Antec SmartPower series.

[mariushm]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

Here's what Jonnyguru says (he now works for Corsair) :

Since when? Most of their PSUs still use CapXon including the primary which is often 85C rated. Not that I'm one to judge.

CapXon provided excellent data for their caps and CWT provided adequate test results under different thermal conditions. They fail in FSPs after 5 or 6 years in FSP Epsilons? Well.... look at an FSP Epsilon as a whole. The caps have a lot more ripple current to deal with than PSUs today. That's going to shorten the life of the cap just as much as higher operating temperatures.

And I'm certainly not saying Japanese caps aren't better. They certainly are. But they're also more expensive and RM series is not supposed to be an HX replacement. It's supposed to be TX level which is entry to enthusiast level. Component cost has to be a consideration.

The E9 and PowerZone both use CapXon. And I never said all of beQuiet PSUs use CapXon, but to my point..... not all Corsairs use CapXon. beQuiet uses better caps in better units. So does Corsair. For Corsair it's the difference between a 5 year and a 7 year warranty.

And what's wrong with an 85°C Primary Cap?!

Possibly nothing, because primary caps are larger and can dissipate heat better. But remember the roles of a primary vs. secondary cap. Secondary caps filter. The more ripple current they have to filter, the more stress. An AC cap holds up the AC charge. It's constantly charged (unless you have very short brown outs, which is why we have hold up time) and the primary switchers getter hotter than anything else. That why they tend to have the big heatsinks.

And you've never heard of primary failures? So you think that every time a PSU fails, the person opens it up to see why it failed and then posts about it in the forums? Really?? EVERY... SINGLE... FAILURE????

The reason why Corsair has put 105C Japanese capacitors in every single unit is because they had primary cap failures. No, you can Google it all you want and won't find out about them because 99.9999999% of consumers, especially those who build with VS and CX level product, return their product under warranty instead of voiding their warranty, opening the product up and posting about it on forums.

Fortunately for Corsair, they look at what's returned, why it's returned, they do a failure analysis and correct the problem. They haven't felt the need to replace the secondary capacitors in VS and CX EVER because they've never received enough units back with failured secondary capacitors to justify it. And it was this same consideration, along with thermal analysis, analyzing the stress of each cap under different load conditions and different temperatures, that lead to the decision to go ahead and use CapXon, Ltec, Elite, etc.

My 2 cents? Corsair is a brand name. They have higher advertising costs, they have a need for higher profit margins.. distributors put a higher profit margin on Corsair power supplies, stores put a higher profit margin...

If they want to make a "budget" power supply, they have to cut costs as much as possible by going with crap like Capxon so that they'll have everyone between Corsair and the final customer make some money.

But you know what's sad?

The RM 650w Corsair is 120$ at Newegg.

You can get Seasonic power supplies that do 620-650w for as low as 75$... closer to 100$ if you want modular just like that Corsair psu:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817151095
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817151106
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817151118

And these are with quality capacitors and other components...

[goodpsusearch]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

BS. There is no excuse for using Capxon. If component cost has to be considered they could use Taicon, Teapo or even OST and Ltec.

Capxon makes awful capacitors and the question is not if the are going to fail, but when...

Obviously they can design their psus so that the caps don't fail during the psu warranty. But if they used Nichicon, Panasonic, UCC or Rubycon caps, those could filter ripple without bulging for a decade or more...

Shame on you Corsair!

[Behemot]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

So JG works for Corsair? That explains A LOT.

Anyway, Be Quiet! is even worse crap than Corsair. Corsair has SOME good units. I haven't seen single one from BQ! yet. The L7 CM I have reviewed and recapped for customer blew just few days ago with hole in secondary, I'll document it later, stay tuned.

The E9 is basicaly Fortron Aurum with better (and slower) fan but worse c(r)aps for much higher price. It also has 4 +12 V rails…don't know what for.

[mariushm]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

Yes, he got hired a while ago by Corsair.

To his credit, he posted on the forum as soon as he was hired and right away stopped reviewing Corsair power supplies and the Corsair psus are reviewed by Oklahoma Wolf.

[Behemot]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

More like he is almost not reviewing at all, that's my point. Otherwise, I know they've been (and still are) way to benevolent at JG in evaluating but this defending of obvious evil by him…man, that's so poor.

Other have PoS? Like that's reason to produce shit myself!

[PeteS in CA]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

The conflict of interest in him reviewing other companies' products would not be any less than for reviews of Corsair's products.

[RJARRRPCGP]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

Well, the greenish colour certainly looks much like that of Samxon GF. I guess they could also be Taicon, but that's not exactly typical of Hipro either.

Looks like they may be Taicon and Ltec caps, like Delta.

[Behemot]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

They use Taicon IIRC, there are some links and images here showing AX line with Taicon.

I got VS450 on my table fileld with AiShi(t), CrapXon and Teapo. But if they (or, not them directly rather than their suppliers which they can blame ) went down to CrapXon and Ltec even on the pricier models, than they are just trying to be viewed as PoS producing manufacturer…

Anyway, my questino for c_hegge stands: got pics?

[c_hegge]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

No, but KitGuru does (http://www.kitguru.net/components/po...pply-review/5/)


http://www.kitguru.net/wp-content/up..._3445_DxO1.jpg

It has NCC on the 5vsb, but those are definitely CapXon on the far left

[mockingbird]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

Gentlemen,

Capxon caps and their likes are not used to cut costs per unit per se, but rather to effect planned obsolescence.

I'd imagine that bulk quantities of Capxon caps don't cost that much less than bulk quantities of UCC KY or KZx series caps usually seen in higher-end PSUs. Capxon caps are especially chosen by Corsair because they know they will fail. They don't want a PSU out in the field for more than a year or two.

[Behemot]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

It'll probably last longer than 2 years, it's true that ripple is by design being driven down, but still - they will fail sooner rather than later.

[c_hegge]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

Capxon caps are especially chosen by Corsair because they know they will fail. They don't want a PSU out in the field for more than a year or two.

They do have a 5 year warranty on them, so it's in their interest that they last at least that long. Jonny's argument is that the design produces so little ripple that it won't stress them. I still think that they could be underestimating just how bad CapXon can be.

[Jesper]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

Hello all
I am new member on this forum.
I have some questions about Corsair and their power supplies units of ,,AXi,, Series.
I want to buy Corsair AX 860W 860i for my next upgrade (GTX 780 SLI) but I am concerned that this a good brand to start using poor Capacitors.
I now have in my pc also model from Corsair AX 750W, I do not know exactly what were the components used and the capacitors in its production, but during all four years I was no problem with the stability of my PC.
On the Internet I saw some pictures from the foreign review, where they were used by capacitors from CapXon (only two reviews) , I've seen it in other capacitors is used by Nichicon (FPCAP solid polymer capacitors). What I read on the internet resources Corsair, namely a set AX, AXi are manufactured by Flextronics who seem to use these less quality capacitors from CapXon. They really CapXon capacitors from the poor? How's the quality of their Nichicon capacitors? I learned that CapXon Caps were used only in the first samples products. Is this really true or false? These are quality products from Corsair down? I will not regret it if I buy AX860i and I'll be there Capacitor from CapXon? Because I want to get for my money quality source and not some piece of junk with poor quality capacitors from CapXon! I have a big dilemma in this, I would be pleased if it were indeed true that corsair stop using caps for CapXon poor, and only caps for Nichicon. The Nichicon Caps are have better quality ? I need find how to solved issue for my dilemma. Sorry for my english , is not good. Thanks for any good ideas.

[Behemot]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

Nichicon are high-quality japanese caps, C(r)apXon is PoS. Possibly only their polymer caps are better, there is chance of them being equaly good as japanese wet electrolytics, but we will have to see, these polymers are not long enough on market to see if they fail or not.

It is actually a good question which revision uses what, if there is even any order in that. I went through couple reviews, all from november 2012 till january 2013 used japanese caps but Xbitlabs got at least a single crapxon in april:

[Jesper]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

For example, here is the review to this page

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Corsair/AX860i/4.html

Precisely in this sample were used CapXon caps on +12V rail!!! Its amazing
This is the first review where I only saw CapXon caps, another was on this page

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/corsair_ax860i_psu_review,1.html

It is the same as in the first review up.

In these reviews already been found by Nichicon (FPCAP solid polymer capacitors) to +12V rails!!! See their:

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=317

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviews/1610/pg1/corsair-ax860i-digital-power-supply-review-introduction.html

http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/5035/corsair_ax860i_860w_80_plus_platinum_digital_power_supply_review/index.html

http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/psu/47618-corsair-ax860i-digital-atx-power-supply/

http://extrahardware.cnews.cz/recenze/corsair-ax860i-ve-znameni-vysoke-kvality-platinove-ucinnosti/strana/0/2

The only thing I need to know the best from someone more interested to me this my theory confirmed.

The only thing I need to know the best from someone more informed the company Corsair to me this confirmed my theory. From Corsair used the caps from CapXon only in the first sample, and subsequently moved to replace higher quality caps from Nichicon. Will be better than a detailed look at all review dates, because it kinda makes sense in sequence data. For if they actually used a higher grade of caps as the CapXon, so I should not worry that i buy a product that will contain the poor caps.