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Smoke alarm caps bad. Can anyone identify please?

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    #21
    Re: Smoke alarm caps bad. Can anyone identify please?

    BUY A NEW SMOKE DETECTOR!!!!!!!! I'm a +20 year FDNY Firefighter and have seen many DEAD people due to bad or batteryless smoke detectors. How much are you going to save by fixing something that your life depends on and hoping it's done right? By a new one and consider it life insurance. They last 10 years so how much does that break down to per year??? Buy new and sleep sound at night!!!!

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      #22
      Re: Smoke alarm caps bad. Can anyone identify please?

      That thing came new with those caps in it and possibly a design problem.
      Does that make you sleep good?
      Mann-Made Global Warming.
      - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
      -
      Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
      - Dr Seuss
      -
      You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
      -

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        #23
        Re: Smoke alarm caps bad. Can anyone identify please?

        Don't panic, don't panic!! I HAVE bought a replacement smoke alarm. On reading up on this it seems that smoke alarms do indeed have a life expectancy of around 10 years and this one is 9 years old. But no-one ever told me that before and I bet there are thousands upon thousands of these things in use that are well over that and had these caps not gone I would never have thought about it. I had thought that the idea behind a capacitor backup alarm was so that there was NO maintenance necessary other than a regular testing. In fact a capacitor backup alarm will only continue working for a day or two without mains power whereas a battery backup one will work for weeks if not months without mains power.
        As to there being a design fault I don't know but I do know that if this is a regular problem then their manufacture and sale should maybe be stopped and more use made of battery backup units.
        I have three of these installed and to replace them with another capacitor unit is about £36 each in the UK. That's £118 for the three or about $200ish. That's a fair bit of money so you can't blame people for wanting to try and repair them if they aren't aware of their life span.
        Anyhow, thanks to everyone for the help and the interest. I hope we have all learned something from this and our worlds are now safer places.
        Cheers,
        Ian.

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          #24
          Re: Smoke alarm caps bad. Can anyone identify please?

          Just one last note. When installing the new alarm (after my last post) I noticed that there is now a date stamped on which gives a date for replacement of the alarm. My particular one was manufactured in July 2008 and has a replacement date of July 2018. If only they'd done this before! Lol.

          Ian.

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            #25
            Re: Smoke alarm caps bad. Can anyone identify please?

            Panic? - I was laughing..
            -
            I see that attitude Chlarock expressed about numerous kinds of technical things and it completely cracks me up.
            -
            How is something of a design optimized primarily to be inexpensive and easy to build on an assembly line and which at best gets a quick check at the end of the line (if any check at all is done) going to be superior to the same gear that has had the personal attention of and is re-optimized for reliability and durability by a knowledgeable Technician or Engineer.
            [Reference: "My brother in law IS a qualified electronics engineer."]

            That comment is like a cop telling you to only get tires and brakes at the dealer because no one else knows enough and you might die in a car crash if it doesn't work.

            No disrespect Chlarock, but that whole attitude is just naive.

            It's especially funny in this case as the parts of the circuit involved are no more complicated than a rechargeable flashlight.

            ...
            That said, if the source has 9 years on it then you are better repacing the unit as you did. The source enclosure contains the other kind of RAM [Radioactive Material] and to open that part of the unit up special handling, equipment, and licenses are required.

            .
            Mann-Made Global Warming.
            - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
            -
            Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
            - Dr Seuss
            -
            You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
            -

            Comment

              #26
              Re: Smoke alarm caps bad. Can anyone identify please?

              I know this is a old thread, but does everyone's some alarms like those with capacitor batteries? All of the smoke alarms in my house have 9v back up batteries in them, and they beep when they go bad.

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                #27
                Re: Smoke alarm caps bad. Can anyone identify please?

                The ones with caps are AC powered.
                Mann-Made Global Warming.
                - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
                -
                Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
                - Dr Seuss
                -
                You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                -

                Comment

                  #28
                  Re: Smoke alarm caps bad. Can anyone identify please?

                  They beep to tell you it's time to replace the batteries.
                  It's a feature.
                  .
                  Mann-Made Global Warming.
                  - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
                  -
                  Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
                  - Dr Seuss
                  -
                  You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                  -

                  Comment

                    #29
                    Re: Smoke alarm caps bad. Can anyone identify please?

                    Ours run off of the mains, but also have the 9v for when the power goes out. Green light=running off mains, Blinking green=change battery, only can run off mains, Red=running off battery only, Blinking Red=get the hell out of the house!

                    Comment

                      #30
                      Re: Smoke alarm caps bad. Can anyone identify please?

                      If they run off mains the batteries shouldn't be loosing any more 'juice' than batteries sitting in a drawer. If the batteries are running down so often as to be that much of an annoyance there is some kind of a problem and you should just replace the units.
                      As discussed earlier in the thread you are supposed to replace them about every ten years anyway.
                      Mann-Made Global Warming.
                      - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
                      -
                      Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
                      - Dr Seuss
                      -
                      You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                      -

                      Comment

                        #31
                        Re: Smoke alarm caps bad. Can anyone identify please?

                        Caps are here.
                        http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...name=P13764-ND

                        Based on unit the thread was opened about you'll need about 5 per detector and they ain't cheap.

                        Will not extend the life of the detector at all.
                        Their life is based on how long the radiative source is useful.

                        .
                        Mann-Made Global Warming.
                        - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
                        -
                        Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
                        - Dr Seuss
                        -
                        You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                        -

                        Comment

                          #32
                          Re: Smoke alarm caps bad. Can anyone identify please?

                          Looks like photoelectric ones last a lot longer!

                          It appears that they can last for about 30 years, maybe longer!

                          Seems that commercial buildings and institutions usually have them.
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                            #33
                            Re: Smoke alarm caps bad. Can anyone identify please?

                            I hadn't heard of those.
                            Sounds like a great idea to me.
                            Mann-Made Global Warming.
                            - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
                            -
                            Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
                            - Dr Seuss
                            -
                            You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                            -

                            Comment

                              #34
                              Re: Smoke alarm caps bad. Can anyone identify please?

                              Recommendations have been for some 30 years to employ both types for best protection.

                              Photoelectrics are good for smoky or smoldering fires. A cigarette in furniture will produce a lot of smoke before it goes to flame. Photoelectrics do last longer but should be cleaned internally (the chamber) every few years to retain sensitivity.

                              Ionization types will detect much sooner where there is open flame but little smoke, such as a trashcan.

                              Never use "Smoke in a Can" to test either type. These are typically oil-based products that will foul the chambers or cause dust attraction.
                              Last edited by Toasty; 03-04-2009, 12:26 PM.
                              veritas odium parit

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                                #35
                                Re: Smoke alarm caps bad. Can anyone identify please?

                                I've read there is no significant difference in their detection capabilities.
                                Might be, but I can't see how there could be much difference.

                                They both work by an emitter sending a signal to a detector through an air gap.
                                [Yes, in this case zoomies are a signal.]
                                A constant signal detected keeps the alarm off.
                                When smoke particles in the gap block detection the alarm sounds.

                                I've seen some in industrial applications that are basically infrared heat detectors like those used in those 'guns' to find hot spots in equipment.
                                U sure that's not what you are thinking of?
                                .
                                Mann-Made Global Warming.
                                - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
                                -
                                Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
                                - Dr Seuss
                                -
                                You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                                -

                                Comment

                                  #36
                                  Re: Smoke alarm caps bad. Can anyone identify please?

                                  >>U sure that's not what you are thinking of?<<
                                  Nope.

                                  Fires that are more flame than smoke will trip an ionization detector much sooner than a photodetector type.

                                  There are also units that have both types of detection.

                                  NFPA testing and a recent (2008) USFA & CPSC sponsored NIST test found there is enough differences to recommend both types be employed. One is faster at this type and the other is faster at that type.

                                  "Smoke alarms of either the ionization type or the photoelectric type consistently provided time for occupants to escape from most residential fires, although in some cases the escape time provided can be short. Consistent with prior findings (1970's), ionization type alarms provided somewhat better response to flaming fires than photoelectric alarms, and photoelectric alarms provide (often) considerably faster response to smoldering fires than ionization type alarms."

                                  In a scenario where seconds count, I'll take 3 of each, thank you.

                                  Lower level: 3 - ion, 2 - wired photo smokes
                                  Upper level: 2 - ion, 1 - wired photo smoke
                                  Attic: 1 - ion, 1 - wired photo smoke

                                  Wired smokes are connected to central alarm to monitored service.

                                  2 - 2 lb. dry chemical extinguisher upper level
                                  1 - 5 lb. dry chemical extinguisher lower level
                                  1 - 5 lb. HALON extinguisher shop/computer area
                                  1 - 5 lb. dry chemical in outdoor workshop

                                  I haven't had a live Christmas tree in the house in 25 years.

                                  Yes, I'm anal about my fire protection and prevention.
                                  veritas odium parit

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