Behemot's reviews (Hardware Insights)

[mockingbird]

Re: Would you read my reviews in english?

EU enacts RoHS so harmful chemicals wont leach into the landfills and possibly affect drinking water (as one example) but you still didn't say how Germans made billions.

Lead from solder has absolutely no impact on lead leackage from landfills into drinking water. Even a cursory exploration of this myth would have straightened you up in regard to this in no time.

It is very likely that Pavel has never been to one single factory to see a wave solder in action first hand so he is only stabbing in the dark.

He offered a free service to the public in the form of a review, and in that review, he made the apt observation that the solder reflow job was poor. He's not obligated to spend thousands of dollars and travel to those factories to verify his obviously true speculation.

If the solder cooled too quickly, it is most likely because the wave solder temperature was not set properly or the length of track inside the wave solder was too short to let it properly cool because of the higher temp needed for silver.

...or they could have just used leaded solder, which doesn't require any tinkering, and which has been in use for the past century...

Pavel gives no explanation on why and you fall for it. He has no clue. Flux to be cleaned? Really? You don't clean flux anymore on production line, the flux used are all non-corrosive type. You think just because Pavel is highly opinionated that he knows what he is talking about? If he did then you would have power supply companies banging at his door for his valued advise but guess what, not one because if they did, Pavel would be bragging his ass off on jonnyguru.com forum, but not a peep.

Flux cleanup is also important because of its conductivity at higher temperatures.

And you're right, the synthetic fluxes sometimes specified for lead-free solder don't need to be cleaned, but you don't know for a fact that the Chinese manufacturers didn't use rosin-based flux, and for that matter, synthetic flux isn't as biodegradable as rosin-based flux. So what have you accomplished by forcing lead-free on the masses? More pollution, more e-waste in order of magnitude, and enormously higher cost for everyone. And your complaint is that Behemot is affecting sales of German distributors by not sugar-coating his reviews.

You wrote: "Post-RoHS videocards always fail...." My dual SLi has been working pretty nicely since um.... 5 years? But I do recall the video card in my Acer notebook from 2001 died so I had only half a screen, oh, but that was pre-RoHS. You have RMA numbers from the big brands comparing RMA rates pre and post RoHS? Really? Seriously? Show us so we can all learn from it.

Good for you. The post-RoHS Xenon-based XBox 360 consoles had a 100% failure rate thanks to RoHS. That's a 100% RMA rate. As in, it's almost entirely unlikely that a Xenon Xbox 360 that has seen continuous use doesn't have BGA solder failure.

You asked for an RMA failure rate? There it is. Now go bug some other people. We don't want this thread to be locked, and it's now entirely clear that that's what you're trying to do.

[Pavel?]

Re: Would you read my reviews in english?

100% RMA, really? A quick google and saw an article where "MS doesn't dispute 54.2%". And now, you know for a fact that all failures are from single root cause - RoHS solder? Really? Wow! I think you have an imaginary friend talking to you...

And still, I would love to know how the Germans made billions off of this RoHS.

Close or delete the thread? I think it would be in YOUR interest and not mine so people don't have to read the strange unfounded, unconfirmed comments you spew.

Oh, I don't think Pavel affects sales. No one really reads his reviews. What is his site's traffic numbers? Nevertheless I am sure no manufactures would want to have a bad mark, even from a tiny site with flawed test methods.

[mockingbird]

Re: Would you read my reviews in english?

100% RMA, really? A quick google and saw an article where "MS doesn't dispute 54.2%". And now, you know for a fact that all failures are from single root cause - RoHS solder? Really? Wow! I think you have an imaginary friend talking to you...

There's a clear convergence of evidence that no one disputes that quite obviously proves the 100% failure rate. Blame it on what you will. One thing's for sure though: The failure rate would have still been there with leaded solder -- the chips did run too hot. But the failure rate would have been much, much lower, and over a much longer period of time.

Close or delete the thread? I think it would be in YOUR interest and not mine so people don't have to read the strange unfounded, unconfirmed comments you spew.

No, we want this thread to stay open because we use it to alert those who read this forum that a new article on HWI has been released. I think you ought to show some respect, as someone who just registered here, and not be so brazen in your attempts to derail a mature thread.

Oh, I don't think Pavel affects sales. No one really reads his reviews. What is his site's traffic numbers? Nevertheless I am sure no manufactures would want to have a bad mark, even from a tiny site with flawed test methods.

If no one reads his reviews then you have nothing to worry about.

But you're going to keep coming back here with your impetuous posts, aren't you?

[Pavel?]

Re: Would you read my reviews in english?

"There's a clear convergence of evidence that no one disputes that quite obviously proves the 100% failure rate." So, 54% is the same as 100%.... Did I just enter the twilight zone? You are freaky! How do you come up with this stuff. You ability to distort information and to jump subjects is really quite a skill. Didn't you say RoHS was messing with the video cards but now it is the XBox360?

Show respect just because I am new? You should show respect to not be a racist in the first place and not write such nonsense. You are doing more of a disservice to this thread than Pavel with his bad reviews.

And what happened to the billions made by the Germans on RoHS? I still didn't a clarification from you on that one.

And Pavel, what happened? All quiet on the Czech front?

[RJARRRPCGP]

Re: Would you read my reviews in english?

Corsair CX550M – farewell group design

I caught you contradicting about the crossload testing. You say in the end that the crossload testing failed, just because the holdup time was real short, when it was nothing to do with crossloading.

[mockingbird]

Re: Would you read my reviews in english?

"There's a clear convergence of evidence that no one disputes that quite obviously proves the 100% failure rate." So, 54% is the same as 100%.... Did I just enter the twilight zone? You are freaky! How do you come up with this stuff. You ability to distort information and to jump subjects is really quite a skill. Didn't you say RoHS was messing with the video cards but now it is the XBox360?

You're attempting to pick out one single statement from Microsoft to disprove an entire compilation of anecdote, observation, reports, speculation, and most importantly, hard evidence that RoHS solder was the primary cause for the 100% failure rate of early Xbox 360s.

Yes 100%. Not 54%.

And RoHS messed with the videocard in the 360.


Failed Xbox360 console at XBox 360 Launch Event, 2005. RoHS would take effect a year later, but it was already becoming apparent to Chinese manufacturers that they would have to convert their lines to lead-free soldering, if they wanted to sell their products in Europe. All this thanks to the German initiative, which sought to extort billions from manufacturers for access to the European market.

Furthermore:

Immediately after the launch, reports about the new machine's technical glitches started coming out. Some reported the Xbox 360 crashing with errors, some reported the hard drive does not respond in certain situations while others report error messages during various games or unusually fast overheating.

...

Microsoft claims that these problems are to be expected on a large scale release for a console and the number of reports versus the number of consoles released was minimal.

Ah, so suddenly Microsoft and Bill Gates are not the devil incarnate anymore? Of course not. Now you like Microsoft, since they also denied that the 100% failure rate wasn't caused by lead-free solder.

[Stefan Payne]

Re: Would you read my reviews in english?

EU enacts RoHS so harmful chemicals wont leach into the landfills and possibly affect drinking water

And I guess that it might be designed for soldering water pipes, for wich lead free solder might be a very good idea.

That they forgot that other things might also be soldered, like electronics, and that the softness the lead brings to the lead can be an advantage, is on the other hand.

I think we should make one exception:
If you take back your electronics things (without charge) _AND_ deliver at least 5 years of warranty, you do not need to use lead free solder and can still use 'normal' leaded solder.

And what's also not mentioned:
Lead free solder was NEW at the time, no one knew what to expect because no one ever used it in electronics before. And that lead to the failures. Lack of knowledge. Now we know what to expect and how high is the RMA rate of the XBox one?

Wasn't it the same with the introduction of low ESR (or water based) capacitors? Didn't they fail left and right? Cound't that be because no one has had any experience with those things and didn't know how to use them, what to expect and so on? And now we know what to expect, how to treat them and everything's gotten better...

If something completely new is introduced, massive failure rates can happen...
And there were also other massive failures due to bad design choces. SNDS, S-ATA ports on Intel P67 (and possibly more)...

[Behemot]

Re: Would you read my reviews in english?

I caught you contradicting about the crossload testing. You say in the end that the crossload testing failed, just because the holdup time was real short, when it was nothing to do with crossloading.

Where?

As for consoles, IIRC, it was also with PS2 and later PS3. People with reflow/reball stations made some serious money on that. Most of them repaired dozens, some even hundreds of devices.

Later as more and more stuff was banned so new materials and new packaging technologies have been created, the problems migrated from BGA to the die bonding itself. So now most bad ICs are to be replaced as a whole. Hey, just got M780G nortbridge replaced recently on thrown-away laptop. Cost me the NB replacement, SSD (which was also thrown away as crapping with some controllers, here it works fine so far) and some memory, it's perfectly working now.

[RJARRRPCGP]

Re: Would you read my reviews in english?

Where?

http://www.hardwareinsights.com/wp/c...and-evaluation

It was obvious that there wasn't a problem during normal heavy loads...

OTOH, I was wondering why CWT or Corsair cut corners with the primary cap capacitance???

[Behemot]

Re: Would you read my reviews in english?

I don't see it

[Pavel?]

Re: Would you read my reviews in english?

Hey Mockingbird, you wrote: "hard evidence that RoHS solder was the primary cause for the 100% failure rate of early Xbox 360s" What hard evidence. You write but without any back up.

So, it was for sure 100% and now it has become primary so there most probably is a secondary and still no proof it is 100% RMA in the first place. You really like to change things up when your gig is up.

And you wrote: "All this thanks to the German initiative, which sought to extort billions from manufacturers for access to the European market."

Seriously? How do the Germans extort billions? You are just way out in the left field. Conspiracy theory perhaps? So, the EU says you want to import then you must be RoHS compliant. So the Taiwanese/Chinese make RoHS compliant products and sells it to the Europeans, so, now how did the Germans extort billions?

You know, mental illness is a difficult thing because you are 100% sure you don't have a problem but everyone around is sure you do. You should not believe what that little voice inside your head is telling you.

[mockingbird]

Re: Would you read my reviews in english?

Hey Mockingbird, you wrote: "hard evidence that RoHS solder was the primary cause for the 100% failure rate of early Xbox 360s" What hard evidence. You write but without any back up.

There is plenty of evidence that converges at a single point that easily proves without a doubt that RoHS solder was the primary cause of RROD. All your doing is picking and choosing one single fact, casting doubt upon it, and then claiming that the whole truth is negated by that. Hardly so.

And you wrote: "All this thanks to the German initiative, which sought to extort billions from manufacturers for access to the European market."

The original point was to discuss your claim that Behemot is dishonest in his reviews. I've proven that he is in fact quite honest, even so to a fault, to the point where he would rather tell the truth rather than sit back and receive 'freebies' like all the other websites for smoothing over the flaws of the product in its review. We are TIRED of those kinds of reviews. We've had sell-out "review" websites for the past 15 years. Enough!

Seriously? How do the Germans extort billions? You are just way out in the left field. Conspiracy theory perhaps? So, the EU says you want to import then you must be RoHS compliant. So the Taiwanese/Chinese make RoHS compliant products and sells it to the Europeans, so, now how did the Germans extort billions?

It's no secret that Europe is tired of Germany's EU regulations. We will not get into a political debate, I am not allowed to. Why you're allowed to go on trolling, but at the same time I'm given warning that answering your trolling will cause the thread to be locked is beyond me.

That said, if you want to discuss Behemot or HWI on a personal basis, then post a topic in the Off Topic sub-forum. Trying to get an old, mature thread locked in order to damage the viewership of someone's website is cowardly.

You know, mental illness is a difficult thing because you are 100% sure you don't have a problem but everyone around is sure you do. You should not believe what that little voice inside your head is telling you.

Discrediting your opponent in debate by delcaring them not of sound mind won't fly here. FACTS will. So far, all your complaint still amounts to is that Behemot's reviews affect your sales. That's how business works. If you can't deal with it, then find another venue.

[Pavel?]

Re: Would you read my reviews in english?

Mockingbird, your inability to stay on point, twist things around and write senseless rants pretty much defines you as a TROLL and clearly shows your lack of intelligence.

I claim Behemot's reviews are dishonest? I said his tests and grading are flowed, that is not the same as dishonest. Affect my sales? CEO's with thousands of apartments? Germany making billions of dollars off of RoHS? Xbox360 with 100% RMA? Where do you come up with these things? Seriously, are you bi-polar or a schizo? Seek help!

I am glad this thread is kept because you do a great job of showing what kind of loon you are which means all your other posts & advises should be read with a huge grain of salt.

[BigTroll]

Re: Would you read my reviews in english?

You're attempting to pick out one single statement from Microsoft to disprove an entire compilation of anecdote, observation, reports, speculation, and most importantly, hard evidence that RoHS solder was the primary cause for the 100% failure rate of early Xbox 360s.

Yes 100%. Not 54%.

And RoHS messed with the videocard in the 360.


Failed Xbox360 console at XBox 360 Launch Event, 2005. RoHS would take effect a year later, but it was already becoming apparent to Chinese manufacturers that they would have to convert their lines to lead-free soldering, if they wanted to sell their products in Europe. All this thanks to the German initiative, which sought to extort billions from manufacturers for access to the European market.

Furthermore:

...
[b]
Ah, so suddenly Microsoft and Bill Gates are not the devil incarnate anymore? Of course not. Now you like Microsoft, since they also denied that the 100% failure rate wasn't caused by lead-free solder.

Couldn't agree more! I always use lead solder in all of my repairs, its a simple way of making sure the problem doesn't come back.

[Behemot]

Re: Would you read my reviews in english?

Silverstone PS14 – Suitable For The Office?

[cpt.charlie]

Re: Would you read my reviews in english?

AFAIK the problem with PS3 and XBOX360 is related to the usage of wrong materials in the chip and not the BGA solder itself, consider this, we have seen many AMD and NVIDIA GPUS and chipsets to fail, if you make a reballing (leaded or lead free doesn't matter) or a reflow it will likely fail in a short period of time, however i have seen very few intel chipsets of the same era failing.

If the problems were related to the soldering process, we would expect similar percentage of failures amont all manufacturers but i'ts not the case, the problem is limited to AMD and NVIDIA.

[Stefan Payne]

Re: Would you read my reviews in english?

Again, the Problem is new stuff without sufficient testing and lack of experience with the new materials...

It's said that the cylinder head gasket of the Toyota Supra MK3 (MA70) failed due to the change to non asbestos types (and lack of torque)...

As for lead free solder:
There are many many different types and those behave differently.
If I remember correctly, modern lead free solder has a higher amoint of silver in it than the older ones...

They just used the wrong materials because they didn't know better. And if you take a look at modern components they don't fail as much because the people know better. Still solder containing lead may still be better in some cases...

[Pavel?]

Re: Would you read my reviews in english?

As I recall, I don't remember and currently no time to look it up, there is a RoHS 5/6 and 6/6 where in certain applications, lead solder can still be used like in the military or something...
But all in all, I would think RoHS related failures are far lower than component or design failures considering most, if not all electronics in Europe are RoHS compliant and that would be an incredible amount of product failures if RoHS was this evil. I would think most, if not all, electronic components shipping to US are also RoHS compliant...

[Stefan Payne]

Re: Would you read my reviews in english?

Oh dear...
You are right. The usage of Lead in solder is permitted, it seems...

The term “RoHS 5/6” refers to products that are compliant with the limits for five RoHS
regulated substances – Cd, Hg, Cr+6, PBB and PBDE – but not Pb. To be able to use the RoHS
5/6 compliance reference, the lead (Pb) usage in excess of RoHS permitted concentrations (i.e.,
>1000 ppm) can only be in solder, component finishes and/or the resulting joint formed in the soldering process. Any other usage of lead (Pb) in excess of RoHS permitted concentrations disqualifies the part from RoHS 5/6 compliance

So it seems RoHS solder isn't lead free but rather contains very little lead....

http://www.rohsguide.com/

[Pavel?]

Re: Would you read my reviews in english?

cpt.charlie, sounds pretty damn logical!