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    #21
    Re: Xbox 360 caps keep failing

    “Polymodding” means replacing electrolytics with polymers. There may be one additional 2200uF 6.3V capacitor that’s on the +5V output of a buck regulator (for the USB controllers and fronts ports), away from the GPU and CPU switching regulator - for that, this might be a better replacement:

    https://www.badcaps.net/store/produc...roducts_id=138

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      #22
      Re: Xbox 360 caps keep failing

      What would be the best option if I didn’t polymod the motherboard and I wanted to stick to electrolytic? ( I feel that polymodding may over complicate things)
      Last edited by MaxRocker247; 02-13-2018, 02:26 PM.

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        #23
        Re: Xbox 360 caps keep failing

        Well, most of the ultra-low impedance electrolytics have been discontinued and are very difficult if not impossible to source. eBay mostly sells fakes so sadly that's not much of an option either. Unless you can find suitable replacements (verified with an ESR and capacitance meter that can test for leakage current too) taken from disposable motherboards, polymers may be your only option unless you want to leave your caps as they are. At this point, it's highly advisable to open the power brick and see if anything needs replacing inside it.

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          #24
          Re: Xbox 360 caps keep failing

          Originally posted by MaxRocker247 View Post
          What would be the best option if I didn’t polymod the motherboard and I wanted to stick to electrolytic? ( I feel that polymodding may over complicate things)
          Panasonic FM.

          They are (in most cases) a good replacement for Nippin KZG and similar caps.
          BUT: They are one size larger.
          Means where the KZG was 8mm diametre, the Pana FM will be 10mm.

          And it doesn't really make sense because the polymer replacement is in some cases cheaper than the Pana FM...
          Last edited by Stefan Payne; 02-13-2018, 03:42 PM.

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            #25
            Re: Xbox 360 caps keep failing

            On second glance, the motherboard appears to have 4 polymer capacitors on the board from the factory. They are silver and blue and say A 58f 820 4v. Two of them appear to be on the gpu v rail

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              #26
              Re: Xbox 360 caps keep failing

              So if I were to polymod the cpu and gpu VRM low on
              C6C2
              C6C3
              C7C1
              C7C2
              And
              C8C1
              C8D1
              C8D4
              C8E3
              C8E8
              C8F1
              C8F2
              C8F3
              Which polymer capacitor would be best suited? The originals were nichicon HZ 2200uf 6.3v. Thanks

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                #27
                Re: Xbox 360 caps keep failing

                The suggested caps in my previous post should work fine.

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                  #28
                  Re: Xbox 360 caps keep failing

                  The 2.5v 820uf?

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                    #29
                    Re: Xbox 360 caps keep failing

                    For the caps you listed, those should work without issue.

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                      #30
                      Re: Xbox 360 caps keep failing

                      Ok I will order some. And the power supply appeared to be fine after inspecting it. I'm hoping that changing these caps will resolve the issue

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                        #31
                        Re: Xbox 360 caps keep failing

                        It's possible. Who did you buy them from, on eBay? If they were fake, it's entirely possible they have marginally too high ESR values, and after heating up a bit, their ESR drops enough that the power supply circuits are stable, then the console works normally. In that case, genuine, new capacitors would solve the problem.

                        Bear in mind that the power supply could still have bad capacitors, drying out without visible signs of failure is possible. You say the console is 10 years old and never used, if it was stored in an attic\garage etc, it could have been subject to temperature extremes and temperature cycling. This may have damaged the capacitors while sitting unused, or perhaps they needed reforming and did not get it. That could account for the quick failures you saw.
                        "Tantalum for the brave, Solid Aluminium for the wise, Wet Electrolytic for the adventurous"
                        -David VanHorn

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                          #32
                          Re: Xbox 360 caps keep failing

                          Seems logical. I am unaware of the previous storage conditions. And yes I bought the “Panasonic FJ series” off eBay. Im hoping that is the source of the problem and I can change those out with the polymers I ordered. I saw someone else on youtube with almost the exact same issues I had. https://youtu.be/45g9NmhrMbE

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                            #33
                            Originally posted by Wester547 View Post
                            For the caps you listed, those should work without issue.
                            Just curious how you determines these spacific replacements as I'm trying to learn more on polymer replacements. Does it matter that the voltage and the uf rating is lower? Thanks

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                              #34
                              Re: Xbox 360 caps keep failing

                              The reason for using higher capacitance and higher voltage capacitors with larger case sizes on the output of a CPU or GPU buck regulator is to achieve an overall lower impedance rating and greater ripple ability. Due to the fact that the conductivity of the water-base electrolyte used in electrolytic capacitors is much lower than that of the conductive functional polymer used in solid capacitors, polymers with lower capacitance ratings, voltage ratings, and much smaller case sizes can generally be used successfully on the CPU and GPU VRM output (they have much better ratings), especially at the switching frequencies polymers are rated for (100KHz-300KHz+). The bulk capacitance does help with transients, but isn’t always necessary, especially in buck regulators with more phases. The 2.5V rated 820uF polymers in the URL should be fine at the Vcore voltage of the Xbox 360 CPU and GPU (IIRC, it’s 1.25V and 1.1V respectively).
                              Last edited by Wester547; 02-14-2018, 06:44 PM.

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                                #35
                                Re: Xbox 360 caps keep failing

                                Wow I am learning quite a lot in this venture. I'm glad there are forums like this with people like you that are willing to share their knowledge and make life easier for people. Thank you very much

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                                  #36
                                  Re: Xbox 360 caps keep failing

                                  Yeah, Ripple Current an especially ESR are more important values than Voltage rating and Capacitance

                                  For Voltage you need something that's higher than the applied voltage. Other than that, doesn't matter that much. BUT: a 2200uF Cap can have 1300mA Ripple Current and 48Ohms ESR at 6,3V or 1780mA and 30OHms at 16V - both have 10mm diametre.
                                  And the 35V version in 16x36mm has 2550mA and 19Ohms.
                                  All have the same capacitance.

                                  But you can also choose a lower Impedance version (like Pana FM) you have 2470mA RIpple and 18Ohm Impedance. With that one you can even go down in capacitance in this case the 1200uF/16V has the same specs (Ripple + ESR) and the 820uF/25V one.
                                  And all have the same size (10x25mm)...

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                                    #37
                                    Originally posted by Wester547 View Post
                                    “Polymodding” means replacing electrolytics with polymers. There may be one additional 2200uF 6.3V capacitor that's on the +5V output of a buck regulator (for the USB controllers and fronts ports), away from the GPU and CPU switching regulator - for that, this might be a better replacement:

                                    https://www.badcaps.net/store/produc...roducts_id=138
                                    Is this cap on C7F1? In front of cpu heatsink?

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                                      #38
                                      Re: Xbox 360 caps keep failing

                                      I have replaced all gpu and cpu vrm low with polymer caps. I now want to Change ALL the kzj 16v 1500uf caps as well. can I use the other 16v caps you recommended? Here are the locations:
                                      3 in front of power plug
                                      C9B1
                                      C9C1
                                      C9C4
                                      2 behind GPU vrm in front of fans
                                      C6B3
                                      C7B3
                                      2 to the right of the CPU behind the cpu low vrm
                                      C9D2
                                      C9E3
                                      And 2 in front of CPU
                                      C6F3
                                      C7F2

                                      Thanks

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                                        #39
                                        Re: Xbox 360 caps keep failing

                                        Originally posted by MaxRocker247 View Post
                                        Is this cap on C7F1? In front of cpu heatsink?
                                        Sorry for the belated reply. That is the cap further down the board, (on revision 2.0 of Xenon motherboards and later), under the extended GPU heatpipe heatsink. Using the 16V rated polymers I recommended would indeed be fine to replace all the KZJ.
                                        Last edited by Wester547; 02-23-2018, 09:55 AM.

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                                          #40
                                          Re: Xbox 360 caps keep failing

                                          Excellent! I'll replace those while I have everything opened up

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