865GBF Bios keeps forgeting itself.....

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  • grss1982
    Badcaps Veteran
    • Mar 2007
    • 225
    • Philippines
    #1

    865GBF Bios keeps forgeting itself.....

    Before anyone says it, YES I replaced the CMOS battery with a new one, since the old one was just giving out 0.97v & the new battery gives a solid 3V.

    Anyways this occurs everytime I plug in the system to the wall socket.

    When I plug in the system, its turn on all on its own (I ddid'nt even press the power button yet) and belches out a "cmos/gpnv error" message.

    I googled that and it turns out you only replace the battery for it to go away. However my problem did'nt actually go away.

    I also want to add that this board (a freebie from a friend) has been recapped before, since it had popped some of its caps due to some crap PSU being used, and NO I was not the idiot who used a crappy PSU on this.

    So my question: Is this Mobo about to give up? Is it a PSU isssue? Any remedies? Sugestions? Violent Reactions?

    BTW, Specs:
    P4 2.6 "C" w/ HT
    865GBF Mobo
    1GB RAM (2x512)
    64MB Radeon 9000 Pro
    20GB & 80GB HDDs
    350W Enermax Dual Fan PSU (forgot the model, but this baby has been rock solid for me)

    Thanks in advnce for any help.
    CPU: Sempron 2500+ / P4 2.8E / P4 2.6C / A64 x2 4000+ / E6420 / E8500 / i5-3470 / i7-3770
    GPU: TNT2 M64 / Radeon 9000 / MX 440-SE / 7300GT / Radeon 4670 / GTS 250 / Radeon 7950 / 660 Ti / GTS 450

    Main Driver: Intel i7 3770 | Asus P8H61-MX | MSI GTS 450 | 8GB of NO NAME DDR3 RAM (2x4GB) | 1TB SATA HDD (W.D. Blue) | ASUS DVD-RW | 22" HP Compaq LE2202x (1920x1080) | Seasonic S12II-620 PSU | Antec 300 | Windows 7 Ultimate with SP1
    Tags: None
    • starfury1
      Badcaps Legend
      • May 2006
      • 1256
      #2
      Re: 865GBF Bios keeps forgeting itself.....

      well no idea really
      but is the 3 V actually appearing on the chip
      Again no idea what maybe leaving a reset jumper in place will have (if it has one)
      but dumber things have happened
      May be if you got another psu change it and see if it behaves the same.

      I take it you did reset it then do what setting you want and saved it

      maybe try setting to defaults and see if it keeps them

      anyway some (probably, useless) suggestions for you.

      Cheers
      You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you may be swept off to." Bilbo Baggins ...

        Comment

        • grss1982
          Badcaps Veteran
          • Mar 2007
          • 225
          • Philippines
          #3
          Re: 865GBF Bios keeps forgeting itself.....

          @starfury1: Thanks for the reply. I have'nt tried that one.
          CPU: Sempron 2500+ / P4 2.8E / P4 2.6C / A64 x2 4000+ / E6420 / E8500 / i5-3470 / i7-3770
          GPU: TNT2 M64 / Radeon 9000 / MX 440-SE / 7300GT / Radeon 4670 / GTS 250 / Radeon 7950 / 660 Ti / GTS 450

          Main Driver: Intel i7 3770 | Asus P8H61-MX | MSI GTS 450 | 8GB of NO NAME DDR3 RAM (2x4GB) | 1TB SATA HDD (W.D. Blue) | ASUS DVD-RW | 22" HP Compaq LE2202x (1920x1080) | Seasonic S12II-620 PSU | Antec 300 | Windows 7 Ultimate with SP1

            Comment

            • gdement
              Badcaps Veteran
              • Jan 2007
              • 690
              #4
              Re: 865GBF Bios keeps forgeting itself.....

              Not sure if this will lead to a solution. But the typical design has 2 diodes presumably near the southbridge - 1 prevents the battery from trying to power the whole board (limits it to CMOS ram), and the other prevents the board from trying to charge the battery. If a diode fails, it can cause the board to eat batteries. And if the battery is leaking into the whole board, it has no hope of maintaining CMOS even when new.

              That said, I have a board where I found low resistance across a diode, but it wasn't coming from the diode. It was the same even with it removed, so I gave up.

              Does it remember settings as long as you haven't powered it off yet?

              If you're satisfied with a workaround, keeping it on standby power might make it happy. Some boards have a jumper near the keyboard port which enables standby mode. This way it should have power even when turned "off", assuming you only use the normal power switch. This is the mode which makes it possible to turn on the computer using your keyboard. I think they usually label the jumper as "keyboard power-on" or something similar.

                Comment

                • PCBONEZ
                  Grumpy Old Fart
                  • Aug 2005
                  • 10661
                  • USA
                  #5
                  Re: 865GBF Bios keeps forgeting itself.....

                  I suspect that your replacement battery was bad.
                  LI batteries are only good for 2-3 years even if they never get used.

                  New out of a package-
                  -- Doesn't mean it's new out of the factory.
                  -- Doesn't mean it's good.

                  Check the voltage and date code on the new batt.

                  .
                  Mann-Made Global Warming.
                  - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
                  -
                  Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
                  - Dr Seuss
                  -
                  You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                  -

                    Comment

                    • grss1982
                      Badcaps Veteran
                      • Mar 2007
                      • 225
                      • Philippines
                      #6
                      Re: 865GBF Bios keeps forgeting itself.....

                      @gdement & PCBONEZ: Thanks for the ideas, will try them out. :-)

                      Originally posted by gdement
                      Does it remember settings as long as you haven't powered it off yet?
                      It remembers settings as long as its not unplugged to the wall socket.
                      CPU: Sempron 2500+ / P4 2.8E / P4 2.6C / A64 x2 4000+ / E6420 / E8500 / i5-3470 / i7-3770
                      GPU: TNT2 M64 / Radeon 9000 / MX 440-SE / 7300GT / Radeon 4670 / GTS 250 / Radeon 7950 / 660 Ti / GTS 450

                      Main Driver: Intel i7 3770 | Asus P8H61-MX | MSI GTS 450 | 8GB of NO NAME DDR3 RAM (2x4GB) | 1TB SATA HDD (W.D. Blue) | ASUS DVD-RW | 22" HP Compaq LE2202x (1920x1080) | Seasonic S12II-620 PSU | Antec 300 | Windows 7 Ultimate with SP1

                        Comment

                        • grss1982
                          Badcaps Veteran
                          • Mar 2007
                          • 225
                          • Philippines
                          #7
                          Re: 865GBF Bios keeps forgeting itself.....

                          Strange, but starfury1's suggestion of changing the PSU actually helped.

                          What could be wrong with the original PSU?
                          CPU: Sempron 2500+ / P4 2.8E / P4 2.6C / A64 x2 4000+ / E6420 / E8500 / i5-3470 / i7-3770
                          GPU: TNT2 M64 / Radeon 9000 / MX 440-SE / 7300GT / Radeon 4670 / GTS 250 / Radeon 7950 / 660 Ti / GTS 450

                          Main Driver: Intel i7 3770 | Asus P8H61-MX | MSI GTS 450 | 8GB of NO NAME DDR3 RAM (2x4GB) | 1TB SATA HDD (W.D. Blue) | ASUS DVD-RW | 22" HP Compaq LE2202x (1920x1080) | Seasonic S12II-620 PSU | Antec 300 | Windows 7 Ultimate with SP1

                            Comment

                            • PCBONEZ
                              Grumpy Old Fart
                              • Aug 2005
                              • 10661
                              • USA
                              #8
                              Re: 865GBF Bios keeps forgeting itself.....

                              The CMOS battery is only used for the data storage in ROM.
                              The rest of the BIOS chip is powered by the PSU.
                              [3.3v or maybe 5vsb ,,, ?? ... I don't remember.]
                              If you have dirty (noisy) or out of spec voltage the BIOS chip (and for that matter your chipset and all the other chips) aren't going to work right.

                              .
                              Mann-Made Global Warming.
                              - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
                              -
                              Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
                              - Dr Seuss
                              -
                              You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                              -

                                Comment

                                • Harvey
                                  Badcaps Veteran
                                  • Apr 2007
                                  • 264
                                  #9
                                  Re: 865GBF Bios keeps forgeting itself.....

                                  Check the obvious - make sure the battery contacts of the socket are clean and actually in contact with the battery. I'd had the same before now and all it took was a bit of a tweak to the metal prong that hold the battery down.. it was a bit lose and not making good contact.

                                    Comment

                                    • acstech
                                      GrumpyModerator
                                      • Jul 2007
                                      • 1432
                                      • USA
                                      #10
                                      Re: 865GBF Bios keeps forgeting itself.....

                                      It probably goes without saying, but check that the CMOS reset jumper is present and in the correct position.
                                      A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.

                                        Comment

                                        • PCBONEZ
                                          Grumpy Old Fart
                                          • Aug 2005
                                          • 10661
                                          • USA
                                          #11
                                          Re: 865GBF Bios keeps forgeting itself.....

                                          He guys,,,
                                          The problem was corrected by replacing the PSU.
                                          .
                                          The current question was how could that be.
                                          Mann-Made Global Warming.
                                          - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
                                          -
                                          Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
                                          - Dr Seuss
                                          -
                                          You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                                          -

                                            Comment

                                            • Harvey
                                              Badcaps Veteran
                                              • Apr 2007
                                              • 264
                                              #12
                                              Re: 865GBF Bios keeps forgeting itself.....

                                              It could just of been a bad connection. Flexing the board while removing and refitting the PSU plugs has fixed it.

                                              As I said above - I've seen similar... and I have myself performed 'miraculous' repairs on electronic items just by knowing what to wiggle

                                                Comment

                                                • grss1982
                                                  Badcaps Veteran
                                                  • Mar 2007
                                                  • 225
                                                  • Philippines
                                                  #13
                                                  Re: 865GBF Bios keeps forgeting itself.....

                                                  @Harvey:
                                                  LOLZ!!!!

                                                  That's quite possible, since actually had to use a minute amount of force to plug in the ATX connector of the replacement PSU.

                                                  @acstech: CMOS jumper was always in th ryt position. I never messed with it throughout this crisis with my 865bgf mobo. ;-)

                                                  Thanks for everyone's help and comments, BTW. :-)
                                                  CPU: Sempron 2500+ / P4 2.8E / P4 2.6C / A64 x2 4000+ / E6420 / E8500 / i5-3470 / i7-3770
                                                  GPU: TNT2 M64 / Radeon 9000 / MX 440-SE / 7300GT / Radeon 4670 / GTS 250 / Radeon 7950 / 660 Ti / GTS 450

                                                  Main Driver: Intel i7 3770 | Asus P8H61-MX | MSI GTS 450 | 8GB of NO NAME DDR3 RAM (2x4GB) | 1TB SATA HDD (W.D. Blue) | ASUS DVD-RW | 22" HP Compaq LE2202x (1920x1080) | Seasonic S12II-620 PSU | Antec 300 | Windows 7 Ultimate with SP1

                                                    Comment

                                                    • gdement
                                                      Badcaps Veteran
                                                      • Jan 2007
                                                      • 690
                                                      #14
                                                      Re: 865GBF Bios keeps forgeting itself.....

                                                      Originally posted by PCBONEZ
                                                      The CMOS battery is only used for the data storage in ROM.
                                                      The rest of the BIOS chip is powered by the PSU.
                                                      [3.3v or maybe 5vsb ,,, ?? ... I don't remember.]
                                                      If you have dirty (noisy) or out of spec voltage the BIOS chip (and for that matter your chipset and all the other chips) aren't going to work right.

                                                      .
                                                      I think the battery-backed RAM is probably held in the southbridge. Anyway, it's definitely not in the BIOS chip - that's just a normal flash ROM. Some of them are 5V parts, and some are 3.3V, I think 3.3V is more common with newer PLCC boards though.

                                                        Comment

                                                        • PCBONEZ
                                                          Grumpy Old Fart
                                                          • Aug 2005
                                                          • 10661
                                                          • USA
                                                          #15
                                                          Re: 865GBF Bios keeps forgeting itself.....

                                                          I think 5v is only old stuff like P3 and older but not sure.
                                                          .
                                                          If I understand the other part correctly. (Not sure I do.)
                                                          Here is the block diagram for SST49LF002A-SST49LF008A which are current 2Mbit through 8Mb BIOS chips.
                                                          As you can see the flash memory is right in the chip.
                                                          Is that what you meant by RAM?
                                                          -
                                                          Attached Files
                                                          Mann-Made Global Warming.
                                                          - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
                                                          -
                                                          Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
                                                          - Dr Seuss
                                                          -
                                                          You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                                                          -

                                                            Comment

                                                            • gdement
                                                              Badcaps Veteran
                                                              • Jan 2007
                                                              • 690
                                                              #16
                                                              Re: 865GBF Bios keeps forgeting itself.....

                                                              No, I mean the battery backed RAM. The flash BIOS chip wouldn't need a battery to retain anything - you could pop the flash chip out of the socket and you wouldn't lose your settings. This is what I was reacting to, but maybe I misinterpreted what you meant:
                                                              The CMOS battery is only used for the data storage in ROM.
                                                              The rest of the BIOS chip is powered by the PSU.
                                                              ==
                                                              I looked up that SST49LF datasheet, and it's new to me. All the BIOS chips I've seen before have been off-the-shelf general purpose Flash ROMS.
                                                              Interesting that this one specifically refers to "Intel 82802 Firmware Hub device for PC-BIOS application." So maybe this one is specialized and does have battery-backed RAM in it, but I can't find anything that really says that. It still appears to just be a Flash ROM, so the battery should be irrelevant to it.

                                                              Some boards do save settings into the flash ROM, but they can't put everything in there. The clock, at minimum, can't be held in Flash because it's too slow and would wear out. My best guess is that they put the battery-backed RAM in the southbridge, but maybe it's in the hardware monitor chip or elsewhere. It *could* be in the BIOS chip on some boards, but I've not yet seen a BIOS chip that has RAM in it. Putting it in the southbridge makes the most sense to me, since that's already where they put the RTC unless I'm mistaken.

                                                                Comment

                                                                • PCBONEZ
                                                                  Grumpy Old Fart
                                                                  • Aug 2005
                                                                  • 10661
                                                                  • USA
                                                                  #17
                                                                  Re: 865GBF Bios keeps forgeting itself.....

                                                                  The concept of battery-backed RAM in the south bridge is new to me.
                                                                  I've never heard of such a thing.
                                                                  I'll have to look into it when I have more time.
                                                                  I wonder if there is a difference there between Intel, nVidia, VIA, ect... chipsets in how they do this.

                                                                  My understanding is that the settings (battery-backed RAM) are held in the BIOS chip itself and if you remove power they are lost.

                                                                  SST49LF is a pretty standard typical BIOS chip probably from P3 up.
                                                                  I just picked it at random.
                                                                  Took numbers off BIOS chip on a P4 800FSB board I happened to have handy.
                                                                  So, not like it's an 'old' chip or anything.

                                                                  .
                                                                  Mann-Made Global Warming.
                                                                  - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
                                                                  -
                                                                  Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
                                                                  - Dr Seuss
                                                                  -
                                                                  You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                                                                  -

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • Harvey
                                                                      Badcaps Veteran
                                                                      • Apr 2007
                                                                      • 264
                                                                      #18
                                                                      Re: 865GBF Bios keeps forgeting itself.....

                                                                      http://www.duxcw.com/faq/cmos/cmos.htm

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