USB problems

[pentium]

I never really noticed it until now but it seems I am having trouble with four USB ports.
there are four sockets next to the ports (they work fine) and two plugs for an additional four on the board close to the bios (these don't). I am using one standard run-of-the-mill usb brackets with their metal plate removed and the MSI D-Bracket.

and when I plug even just one port in I get momentary power and then suddenly I lose all power. It sounds like the poly fuse is kicking in but I don't see why.
Here is the pinout for both plugs:

1-Vcc
2-Vcc
3-usb0-
4-usb1-
5-usb0+
6-usb0+
7-gnd
8-gnd
9-No pin
10-usb0c

I looked over several sites and the pinout checks out fine. Witout this I can't use my front card reader or usb port let alone my rear connections. What's going on?
Who was it again that said they had an MSI K7N2 Delta2 mobo? Would you be able to confirm the pinouts?

[pentium]

Re: USB problems

Not even a clue?

[stretch0069]

Re: USB problems

Did you check those cables for possible shorts???

Seems odd that everything is fine until you plug those cables in....

[Topcat]

Re: USB problems

I had a similar issue with an Iwill DVD266u-RN.... I plugged in one of those headers, powered the system up, and puffs of smoke came from the southbridge, and that was that. board was toast. Nothing was plugged into the header, so I couldn't blame any devices. Since then, I've never used one on any of my personal systems......you know, once bitten twice shy..

[pentium]

Re: USB problems

I'll try checking for a ground short tomorrow. I had no puffs of smoke on my system. Voltage checks found no undervoltage problems either.

[pentium]

Re: USB problems

I have tried several different combinations and none of them work.
It looks like I will need to stuff a self-powered hub into the case and go off that.
Now I need a 4-port hub.

[pentium]

Re: USB problems

What do we have here?
I has plugging a usb cable in the back of my system when U suddenly saw a glow and started to smell smoke. I shut the system down and proceeded to find out what had happened.
It seems the 5V line had somehow managed to short to ground and the light and smoke was from the trace burning up and not the fuse. If my case is live, this might explain why the poly fuse keeps tripping.

[pentium]

Re: USB problems

You know, the frame just might be live. Another thing I am having a problem with is that the system will instantly come back on if I shut the system down. (you hear the drives spin down and the front led's go off but then everything comes back on like the power button is being pressed). If you also have a USB bracket installed and plugged in and then you shut the system down (by pulling and reconnecting the main plug because it will come back on) and then power on with the front switch, the PSU will kick out and will only allow the system to come back on once you disconnect the usb bracket.

I'm only pulling the system out if it's dead necessary. Do we suspect something came loose?

[pentium]

Re: USB problems

I am now 100% positive mt case is live.
I was crawling over the case to adjust a cable when I felt my arm tingle. It wasn'y a high voltage shock but it was something.
What does that narrow down to?

[Neo2_000]

Re: USB problems

Have you checked the pinouts on your mobo USB headers. These are NOT always the standard RWGB.

You can cause serious to your mobo if you take that foregranted as a friend of mine recently found out the hard way.

[pentium]

Re: USB problems

I'm positive that the headers are fine.
The ports used to work fine.

[Tom41]

Re: USB problems

I am now 100% positive mt case is live.
I was crawling over the case to adjust a cable when I felt my arm tingle. It wasn'y a high voltage shock but it was something.

That sounds like ground leakage, or faulty earth/ground connectors. I don't know the exact details of what happens, but when you touch a 'leaky' appliance while touching something else that is grounded, you get a small shock.

I have several devices that tend to do that, most of which have no earth connection (supposed to be double insulated). If I am touching something that is grounded, like a pipe (or even the floor), and a small part of my body makes contact with the leaky appliance, I feel a sharp 'prick' - as if I touched a sharp sewing pin.

[Harvey]

Re: USB problems

USB is supposed to be short circuit/mis-wired proof. I guess not all manufacturers follow the standard.

[pentium]

Re: USB problems

That sounds like ground leakage, or faulty earth/ground connectors.

Hmm. The strange thing was I was on carpet so my arm must have been touching both the problematic area and an area where there was a good ground.

USB is supposed to be short circuit/mis-wired proof. I guess not all manufacturers follow the standard.

They do follow a standard now. The trace burning out and the poly fuses constantly kicking out are signs of that. There is also a missing pin on the USB headers so the plug is installed only one way.

Well, since I don't have anything to do with the system yet (I need to buy more ram), I guess it won't hurt to strip the system down and find the problematic device.

[pentium]

Re: USB problems

I know you are going to hate me for making a multi-paragraph report from my testing but you can sent all complaints to MSI. They made the board.

I completely stripped the system down and laid the board and psu on a piece of cardboard to be positive there were no shorts caused by the standoff's , the card slots or the rear ports.
This system apparently feeds 5v out of the USB headers even while the system is off (for waking and starting the system via USB keyboard and the system needs to have been on at least once before it does this)
I first removed one of my screwups (I had one usb connector on each of the headers reversed so it was shorting itself) and then checked for voltage. I got 5 volts and I then proceeded to plug one usb socket into the header. I then plugged my card reader into that and I got the front LED on it to light up.

knowing that power was going to the device, I then used a screwdriver to short the pins for the power switch. The led on the card reader went out instantly and the voltage dropped from 5V to 1.45V. I then unplugged the bracket from the header and the voltage went up to 5V. I then removed the card reader from the usb bracket and installed a light that only feeds from the grounf and 5V line and ignores the rest of the leads to the usb port.

With the system still on I plugged the adapter back into the header and the lamp lit up. I then left the lamp plugged in and the proceeded to turn the system off by once again shorting the pins for the power switch. As soon as the system shut off, the lamp got brighter than it was when the system was on. The voltage however only increased by .1 volts.

I switch the green and white leads, the data leads, on the on the bracket plug (see the photo I posted earlier) and then plugged the card reader in again.
The LED was on when the system was off but once again, when the system was turned on the led went out.

I can't make no sense of this.

[gg1978]

Re: USB problems

Exactly what motherboard do you have in there?? It sounds like your USB devices are being powered by +5VSB, and not regular +5V.. A lot of boards have an option to jumper a given pair of USB ports to either power off +5 or +5 VSB.. Given that most PSU's are current limited to 2.0 amps or so on +5VSB, i'll usually jumper the USB ports to power off +5V.. This way the ports aren't "hot" while the PC is turned off, and it preserves current on the +5VSB rail for stuff that really needs it, like your motherboard or PCI cards that need to be able to wake the PC up.. If i do leave a set of USB ports set for +5VSB, its usually one pair on the ATX back panel, where i would plug in a keyboard or mouse, as some keyboards do have a key on them to turn the computer on.. A keyboard doesn't take much power..


It appears your extra ports are wired correctly, as the red wires are +5, the whites are D-, the greens are D+, and the black are groundd, and the one extra black on pin 9 is the shield for the USB cable, which is definately recommeded for USB 2.0..



edit: on a side note, it almost sounds like your card reader is tripping the overcurrent protection of the ATX power supply, on the +5VSB.. It almost sounds like the MSI board swtiches the USB ports between the +5VSB when the board is "off", and +5V when the board is "on".. There may be a BIOS option for the USB power thing too.. Might be worth a look..

[pentium]

Re: USB problems

I thought that the card reader was tripping the system out but if
I connected it to one of my PCI USB cards the thing would work fine.
I have an MSI K7N2 Delta2 motherboard with an athlon 3000 (+?) installed. I didn't really check for jumpers.

EDIT: If I were to cut the current power trace for the USB headers and then wire a 5V lead from one of my unused drive plugs to before the fuse on the USB ports, would this fix things?

[pentium]

Re: USB problems

Here's one of the problems.
I was looking at the wrong manual. I was looking at the platinum series
This board is the one I have and right now I am going to check over it's manual.

[pentium]

Re: USB problems

well, whatever I did while I had the case stripped has eliminated the leaky ground.
I still can't figure out what's causing this problem yet though and I still need someone to ok my fix before I whip out the soldering iron.