I'm obsolete!!!, I can no longer build PC's.

[Fizzycapola]

This same thing happened last year building another PC, I despise all these multitude of connectors these days, it used to be connect the ATX and the molex and switch on all is happy, it seems much more complicated to me I fear this shall be the last PC I ever build.

My system is all brand new MSI Neo-F MB (brand new MBZ capacitors & solid caps), Core2Duo6700, 2GB Dominator RAM, All SATA2 Devices (Seagate NL35), GF8800GTS, FSP 300W VGA PSU (only 1 connector used/1 tucked away), Tagan 480w PSU

Power is connected as follows:
ATX 20+4 connector slotted into 24pin atx power
There are 5 connectors that appear to fit in the small CPU power connector, I have the one marked P4 connected, theres another one
market P4+, another one and 2 pcix connectors spare not used.
FSP PCIX connector 1 of 2 connected into GF8800

When power switched on at socket no keyboard or mouse power lights appear. When power switched on at front PC fans connected direct PSU flash for a split second, repeated pressing power and reset button no longer has any effect at all. No Floppy or IDE's are connected, only connections are power switch and reset button, front usb connector, the rest tucked away.

Maybe I've just smoked too much and am too stupid to build PC's anymore. ... zzz stressful spent half my savings on this new PC ...

This exact same thing happened last year also building an Athlon X2 machine, throughout these builds the same Tagan 480W PSU has been used, it appears ok on inspection and continues to power old ATX 20pin boards without glitches.

[willawake]

Re: I'm obsolete!!!, I can no longer build PC's.

please disconnect the usb header and check you didnt put it wrong.
disconnect also the FSP and try to get it working with only the tagan for the moment.

sounds like the tagan has marginal probs though?

[Fizzycapola]

Re: I'm obsolete!!!, I can no longer build PC's.

Ok now it's really bare testing, I spent hours yesterday getting it all so neat inside, I really should test if it works first lol. Thanks again for another fast reply btw

Ok USB headers disconnected and using only Tagan. Nothing.

All non-crucial connectors disconnected. Only Power Switch connector still connected (even reset disconnected). Nothing.

All case fans disconnected (these were all set on low btw). Nothing.

Next up... ?

1. replace (150w peak)GF8800 with (~10w?) MatroxG200 graphic card

2. put (3 pin!) CPU fan into a spare molex and put in the Intel original 4! pin fan just incase strangely the board won't boot unless it has a rubbish Intel 4 pin fan.

3. try a different psu (options 350w antec, 400w mercury, buy a new one for testing)

Pictures incase theres something obvious that my eyes don't see:






Pic 1 (overview)
Pic 2 (mb connections)
Pic 3 (mb connections atx pwr)
Pic 4 (DDR/CPU)

[willawake]

Re: I'm obsolete!!!, I can no longer build PC's.

i would take the board out of the case because maybe you are shorting the board behind.

its a pity your tagan is suspect it does not make troubleshooting easy.

[Fizzycapola]

Re: I'm obsolete!!!, I can no longer build PC's.

Ok I'll try that. I can't think how it could be shorting, theres a good gap all the spacers are in the right places securing the board. I'd like to test further using very minimal components and connections, removing all ram is ok?, what I'm looking to achieve is that red glow on the mouse when PSU is switched on.

If PSU is faulty, I wonder why it powers 20pin atx computers and not 24pin?, in the past I seem to remember certain combinations of fans on molex headers labeled S1 & S2 could produce this same effect of no MB power but molex devices a quick brief spin.

BTW system I build last year, when returned was found to be DOA and refunded me, I wonder if somehow I destroyed it or it really was DOA. Maybe this ones the same also.

[willawake]

Re: I'm obsolete!!!, I can no longer build PC's.

well there seems to be a problem with the loading of the 12v rails. if no joy in the end then head over to http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/ and get them to recommend a new psu.

[WNG]

Re: I'm obsolete!!!, I can no longer build PC's.

just for sh!ts and giggles, did you try resetting the BIOS?

Curious, how is the FSP VGA psu switched on? Signal from card?

[Fizzycapola]

Re: I'm obsolete!!!, I can no longer build PC's.

yep bios reset several times no joy

The 300w (400w peak) dedicated vga psu switches on from detecting voltage from main psu molex connector plugged into it. I read as it's just a dedicated 12v PSU (2 x 150 (200w per pcix connector peak) rails / only 1 rail will ever be used for my setup) it can modified (according to xbitlabs) to provide more power to other 12v devices also, as by default it only supplies supplementary 12v to vga after drawing max power from boards pcix16 slot, - 75watts from pcix.

[Fizzycapola]

Re: I'm obsolete!!!, I can no longer build PC's.

2 more tests done

1. replace (150w peak)GF8800 with (~10w?) MatroxG200 graphic card . NOTHING.

2. put (3 pin!) CPU fan into a spare molex and put in the Intel original 4! pin fan just incase strangely the board won't boot unless it has a rubbish Intel 4 pin fan. NOTHING.

only changing psu left ... yawn ... so tired, I could have gone on a very long holiday with as many hot babes I could shake a stick at, instead of buying all this crap that doesn't work, now I need a holiday for it not working!!! *groan* =/

so... my last test before I check myself into therapy, that Corsair 620W I've had my eye on will order monday.

[Tom41]

Re: I'm obsolete!!!, I can no longer build PC's.

The most complex PC I've ever built (perhaps the only PC I've built from scratch) was the one at my workplace. We ordered it to replace one on which the PSU and motherboard caps had vented, and the HDD was rendered useless by the 'dirty' power and sporadic signals from the board.

Installed the board in the case, put the CPU in, connected the PSU. At that point I decided to power up the board there and then - even with no additional memory/peripherals installed, provided the board and its built-in graphics card are working, it should at least go through POST and then do a boot failure message.

Turned it on, board seemed dead. Checked all connections, power-cycled at the mains, still dead. Then I finally realized I hadn't connected the extra 4-pin power plug coming from the ATX PSU to the separate 4-pin socket on the board!

Connecting that up, then powering on, I was able to get a picture on the screen and access the BIOS setup. But that little escapade does make you realize... if you can get stumped by not plugging in one aux power connector, the multitude of PSU and board connections today really mark the end of successful 'home build' PCs

[willawake]

Re: I'm obsolete!!!, I can no longer build PC's.

in this case i put my money on psu or board. if its psu then its another wonder of the modern world...splitting up the 12v rails and giving poor amperage on each otherwise the board is doa.

but yeah sometimes the connections give a surprise. especially after recapping and results in a "shit i fucked the board"....no this power connector is wrong heh....

[starfury1]

Re: I'm obsolete!!!, I can no longer build PC's.

Hi All
Ok complete wet finger in the air, long short and I am probably totally wrong since this is a complete new system and I would guess all parts are of spec for todays system

As I cant remember any detail of it and haven't look
at any details of what fizzycapola specs are.

but didn't we have a case where some MB need a -5V and the PSU dont have it
(due to changes in spec)

As I said probably totally wrong but these are sometimes the things you miss

2 c you having these probs with what should be a great box mate

[gonzo0815]

Re: I'm obsolete!!!, I can no longer build PC's.

I would suggest to check the darn, damn skt 775 with a magnifing glass. If your not that carfully, this skt. will easily develop bend and broken pins.
You can see this with if you direct a flashlight from a certain angles on the socekt, the dammaged pinns will refleckt the light differently.

And yes, unless you already replaced the shitty Fujjihy caps in the tagan, it may suffer from them.

And i would certainly put the board on my desk, this is always recomended b4 puting it in the case. Just sit it down either on a sheet of paper of some antistatic foil / foam and power it up.
The systems should come up even without vga, but memory should be supplied.

[Fizzycapola]

Re: I'm obsolete!!!, I can no longer build PC's.

Ok thanks I'll try those suggestions.

Theres a line in the manual (nowhere else it seems, and unique to MSI boards) which states to use a PSU with -5v yes, but if that were totally necessary (which I believe it isn't because I read people using the board with not only not have -5v but other requirements missing also) I don't think the board would be very popular, it's an obsolete standard not included in latest PSUs.
I will try one of these PSU though if anyone knows one that exists and is Conroe/Geforce8800 suitable.

So my updated tests will be:

Board out it's case, removing cmos battery for an hour (hit power button to drain power maybe), Power and Reset buttons connected. Low power PCI graphics card
with monitor connected.

1. Test different PSU Corsair 620w, Delta/Globalwin PSU -5volt feature
2. Try ram in all combinations of slots, try different brand/performance RAM modules
3. Disconnect all cables and reconnect in all possible combinations (except stupid combinations)
4. Look around board for any defects.

x. Check all power supplies are delivering the correct voltage with multimeter.
x. Take a multimeter to the board to see whats going on? (not intended, not sure where to start)
x. Boot without P4 power connected (not intending to, but I read this can work?)

[gonzo0815]

Re: I'm obsolete!!!, I can no longer build PC's.

-5v is usually not necesary, only some boards need this for the onboard AC97 sound codec.
The board should without doubth boot up without -5v.
If this board don`t to do the smallest beep, i am shure, either it was an DOA or one of the skt. 775 pins have been dammaged during instalation.
I am afraid, but now it is time to chek the soket. There is no sense in trying any further troubleshooting before you are shure that CPu and skt is fine.

[starfury1]

Re: I'm obsolete!!!, I can no longer build PC's.

Thanks Gonzo like I said long shot in the dark I just remembered something about -5V and I sure it was MSI MB but don't know what one

[gonzo0815]

Re: I'm obsolete!!!, I can no longer build PC's.

Some Asus board (skt. 939) still needed the -5v, despite theyr desinged fpr 24 pins ATX 2.0 PSU`s.
May be there are some other vendors, wich used the -5v rail.
But from my knowledge, this was always not criticall for boot up.

[Galvanized]

Re: I'm obsolete!!!, I can no longer build PC's.

I have read that a number of the newer MSI MBs need the -5V for onboard sound.
If one uses a sound card this would be a non-issue.

[Fizzycapola]

Re: I'm obsolete!!!, I can no longer build PC's.

More pictures:

Bad allignment:
Picture 1

Some tracks damaged on the back of board and I don't know if this is normal but some kind of sticky slime *all* over the back of board that you can smudge around with your finger:
Picture 2

CPU Socket
Picture 3

CPU
Picture 4

[gonzo0815]

Re: I'm obsolete!!!, I can no longer build PC's.

If those rteaces are truely cut, i would say it is dammaged. But from your pic i can`t see that beyond doubth.
Skt. sems to be ok.