PCIe Graphics into Dell server.

[dg_ironman]

Re: PCIe Graphics into Dell server.

Hello there... i am planning to do the same thing in a dell power edge r 200 server...

it has an intell xeon quadcore 2.66 ghz
4gb ram

and a crap gpu (which is not realy of use since it has only 32mb ram) !!!

i want to install a KINECT system on it! and the gpu it has, does not support direct x !!!

i am planning to put an ati saphire 5450 1 gb (with no fan on it so as to fit properly in the case)...

The isues i have is:

1. i am planning to fit the gpu card with a pci express converter (x16 to x8) since it does not have a pci express x16 slot...
is it gonna work?

2. The power supply it uses, can handle 345 watts... the gpu card i chose is said that can work fine in home systems with 220 watt power supply but i am not sure about it...


any ideas???

[370forlife]

Re: PCIe Graphics into Dell server.

The power supply will be fine. It is a server grade power supply that is built to a higher standard than desktop units.

[dg_ironman]

Re: PCIe Graphics into Dell server.

And what do you think about my idea of putting the gpu on it??

specialy when you have such a system without giving a peny for it?? (it was given to me since the people they had it, no longer needed it...)

the ati saphire 5450 1 gb, hass passive cooling and it is said that she has no thermal issue plus little power consumption...

in the ATIs site, they say at least 400 watts power suply... (but works on HTPCs with 220 watt power suply)

...

Does it worth a try??

[dg_ironman]

Re: PCIe Graphics into Dell server.

And by the way... thank you for posting

[mariushm]

Re: PCIe Graphics into Dell server.

A computer uses 3 main voltages: 3.3v , 5v and 12v.

The most important voltage is the 12v, which is used by the processor, the video card and the motors from hard drives.

In the past, the processors were using the 5v to power themselves so old power supplies were designed to be able to supply a lot of power on the 5v line but very little on the 12v.
By saying you need a 400w power supply the video card makers simply make sure you're going to use more modern power supplies, that focus on supplying power on the 12v side.

The 5450 uses about 15-20 watts when watching movies and probably up to 50-60 watts when playing games. Through the pci express slot, a video card is supposed to use a maximum of 75 watts and since that video card doesn't have an extra connector, that's probably as much as it's going to use.

So you can use that video card with the power supply the server has with no issues.

[dg_ironman]

Re: PCIe Graphics into Dell server.

That's a relief for me... thanks

and what about the socket??

the mobo has 2 pci express x8 sockets ... So i am planning to use an adaptor which converts the socket to pci express x 16.... I don't thing that there will be any issues with it ...

anyone done something like that before??

[mariushm]

Re: PCIe Graphics into Dell server.

It will work - most video cards will run just fine even on x4.

Some people even use a blade or a very sharp knife to cut the end of the x8 slot and just plug the card like that into the x8 slot, leaving a part of the video card's pins in the air. It's supposed to work but it depends on the motherboard, if there aren't any components blocking the path behind the slot. Still, I wouldn't recommend it if you can get one of those extension cables.

See these for examples:

http://thebsdbox.co.uk/?p=21
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/266540-15-pcie
http://www.tkdan.com/SC420/ (though technically this is a custom x16 slot from dell - they added some plastic to block people from plugging x16 cards because it's only x8 slot electrically)

You may have some issues with the motherboard's BIOS - some motherboards will only allow video card in the second pci express x8 slot or stuff like that - can't know ahead of time if yours is like that or not.

[dg_ironman]

Re: PCIe Graphics into Dell server.

I'll try not to modify the slot.... and yes . . . it's a pain in the but to find an adapter like that...

i am thinking of using pci express x1 gpu cards... if i can find any !!!

like those:

1. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814139069
2. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814500164

Sorry if i write a lot and i really thank you for all the help :-D !!!

any ideas about those???

[mariushm]

Re: PCIe Graphics into Dell server.

They're not worth the money. Better off buying those extension cables.

I don't recommend buying x1 cards or using x1 adapter cables to plug x8 or x16 cards in them because the maximum power they can supply to cards is limited.

Originally, pci express 1.0 allowed a maximum of 10 watts for x1 slots. Later on, with pci express 1.1 and higher, the limit was raised to 25 watts for the x1 and x4/x8 connectors and the x16 slot can provide a maximum of 75 watts (60 watts through 12v and the rest through 3.3v)

I believe there are enough power pins in a x8 connector to give x16 video cards enough power but I would be reluctant to plug a x16 card in a x1 or x4 - the traces and pins in the slot may burn up due to too much power requested.

See page 3: and also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Exp....28standard.29

If you do decide on an extender for x1 slot, get one that takes power from the power supply instead of the motherboard, one like this for example:

http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-E...0174573&sr=8-1


You can then pair it with a low height video card and mount it in the normal slot.

But there are also x8 to x16 cables:

https://cablesaurus.com/index.php?ma...g1rrmvl9ojncq6

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PCIe-Express...-/160629855668 (same as above, same company but item on ebay)

https://cablesaurus.com/index.php?ma...products_id=11

http://www.ameri-rack.com/ARC1-PELX16-C7X8_m.html

[dg_ironman]

Re: PCIe Graphics into Dell server.

So you are saying that a low profile pci express x 1 gpu will cause problems when used in pci express x8 socket ???

it is a rack system, which will be used with microsoft kinnect equipment for application production - kinnect application testing...

(i need to exploit direct x )

it wont play games like crysis etc.... that's why i thing of using one graphic card x1....

(also i want something not expensive)

will there be performance loss, or temperature issues???

or you are saying about value for money???

.....

[mariushm]

Re: PCIe Graphics into Dell server.

No, what I'm saying is that x1 slots on the motherboard may not be able to provide enough power to a x16 card. It depends on the video card.

Those x1 video cards will work fine in the x1 slots but performance wise, they're slow. Pretty much like AGP video cards.... maybe even worse.

Especially that 8600 GS chip, it's very old... from around summer of 2007 and supports only DX 10 and OpenGL 3.3...

You can get now 40$ cards (20$ after mail in rebate!) that can do DirectX 11 and Open GL 4.something... here's some links:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814150581

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814125314
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102874

You can pretty much pick from the 54xx/55xx/64xx series cards from Newegg and they're great and don't use much power - 30-40 watts. A review for 5450 says when in full load it the difference was 23 watts between idle and load, so add about 5-10 watts for idle load and you're at maximum 35 watts usage: http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-5450-review/6
The 5570 should use just a bit more power and 6450 should be on par with 5450 series.

Even if they draw more than 25 watts from the x1 slot ... 30-40 watts is not enough to cause problems physically.

So couple one of these with those 12$ extension cables linked above or that adapter from amazon and you're done... you'll get much better performance for the same money.

[dg_ironman]

Re: PCIe Graphics into Dell server.

Ok !!!

so better pci x 16...


in case i wont be able find an expansion, i can modify the socket by breaking the right end of the socket so as to make her fit properly....

since the sockets are in a riser card, it can be easy....

[dg_ironman]

Re: PCIe Graphics into Dell server.

Hi there....

I thought right to inform you about what i did ...

things got complicated in the process....

the riser can be removed so i removed it...

this is the riser it has....



this is what i found underneath it..



looks like a pci express slot...

BUT... it is called riser conn1....

there is no reference on what kind of a slot that is....

anyway... i borrowed an ati hd 4550 512mb low profile, and i put her on ...

i cut 3 fins from the processor cool fins to fit properly, since there was no space....

ISSUES????

When i connect the card there is no power input. all dead. no input.. when i disconnect the card, the power supply starts to work again...

what could be wrong with that???

here is a photo of the main board with no parts on it...

[mariushm]

Re: PCIe Graphics into Dell server.

That's not a pci express slot on the board - it's a custom slot for the riser card.

The system probably doesn't start because you're shorting something when you're plugging the card. Get one of those flexible extension cables and mount the card like that.

Another idea : if there's room on the other side of the board, desolder the capacitor near the pci express on the slot above and solder it back again on the other side of the board, so that you'd be able to plug the x16 card in the x8 pci express slot that's above.

Or maybe get a new capacitor (which will come with long wires), use some tubing to isolate the wires and re-solder/mount the capacitor slightly below the pci express slot to make room for the card.
like so :

[dg_ironman]

Re: PCIe Graphics into Dell server.

Well

i did that.....



i also opened the sockets resulting in damaging the second slots last pin but, hopefully with some wire stripes and a knife i restore it...

What do you think???

Do i have any chances???

[mariushm]

Re: PCIe Graphics into Dell server.

The last two pins in a x8 slot are ground, so it *should* be no problem if one of the last two pins are broken. Fix it if you can though, just be careful not to short the previous pin with the fixed one when you plug a card.

You should solder another capacitor in that location, same uF value, just use some electrician tape or some tubing to isolate the wires of the capacitor. Ideally you'd want them as short as possible but see what's the best way to have a card mounted in the slot there and not short any of the card's pins with the wires of the capacitor.

[dg_ironman]

Re: PCIe Graphics into Dell server.

i have the same capacitor ...

its on the back side....

yes. good point.. i will use some tape to cover the capacitor ends...

thanks. i really apreciate it..

Now i want a PCI Express graphic card to test it again....

I'll brief you soon with re results ....