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    #1

    Attack of the RoHS

    http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...d_display.html
    ...Serenity Caldwell of Macworld has also reported issues with the MacBook Air display, noting that the Air's display has turned a variety of colors: gray, tan, gray-black, and blue. Caldwell consulted an Apple Genius, who suspected "the Air's logic board might possibly be at fault."
    Why the heck are manufacturers still using RoHS compliant solder (lead-free) for their boards?

    Look at this:
    Here a company finally deviates from the reference design and they decide to still use the lead-free solder. Why?

    How many more years of high failure rates of Radeon 3xxx 4xxx and 5xxx will it take for people to wake up and demand better? Also RoHS is supposed to be a European standard, why is it being forced on Americans?
    Attached Files
    "We have offered them (the Arabs) a sensible way for so many years. But no, they wanted to fight. Fine! We gave them technology, the latest, the kind even Vietnam didn't have. They had double superiority in tanks and aircraft, triple in artillery, and in air defense and anti-tank weapons they had absolute supremacy. And what? Once again they were beaten. Once again they scrammed [sic]. Once again they screamed for us to come save them. Sadat woke me up in the middle of the night twice over the phone, 'Save me!' He demanded to send Soviet troops, and immediately! No! We are not going to fight for them."

    -Leonid Brezhnev (On the Yom Kippur War)
    Tags: None
    #2
    Re: Attack of the RoHS

    It's the almighty dollar. They'd have to have more equipment to do some boards with lead-free and others with lead solder. They save money doing them all the same.
    A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.

    Comment

      #3
      Re: Attack of the RoHS

      because it's also a chinese standard,
      and Europe + china = most of the world market.

      maybe if they used better lead-free solder with a higher copper content and reduced the running temp of the chips they'd have less problems - but they wont risk increasing production costs by a penny or 2.

      Comment

        #4
        Re: Attack of the RoHS

        because they don't wanna look like anti green assholes.

        i see the point... pick up board- touch solder, lick fingers- repeat for many years. also a trash to groundwater contamination problem.

        i also see that lead solder either overmelts or undermelts... there is no good solution right now.

        i just had an idea- i remember that the NI cRIO kits sent to FRC teals like i am on had a couple breakout boards that were coated in clear plastic. for durability reasons... the FRC robots go through hell... i wonder if you coated cards like that, leaving the surfaces of heatsinked and hot chips uncovered, also leaving the contacts uncovered... it could seal in the lead...
        sigpic

        (Insert witty quote here)

        Comment

          #5
          Re: Attack of the RoHS

          Two weeks after release AND they had to release a dodgy update on the release day?
          Wow, that's really bad.
          Find Nedry!


          Check the Vending machines!!

          <----Computer says I need more beer.

          Comment

            #6
            Re: Attack of the RoHS

            Wondering if you cool this better, to reduce the heating/cooling cycles, whether that would help.

            Comment

              #7
              Re: Attack of the RoHS

              I used to hold a length of solder in my mouth when I needed both hands.
              36 Monitors, 3 TVs, 4 Laptops, 1 motherboard, 1 Printer, 1 iMac, 2 hard drive docks and one IP Phone repaired so far....

              Comment

                #8
                Re: Attack of the RoHS

                nVidia has not learned from its past. The new GTX 580:
                Attached Files
                "We have offered them (the Arabs) a sensible way for so many years. But no, they wanted to fight. Fine! We gave them technology, the latest, the kind even Vietnam didn't have. They had double superiority in tanks and aircraft, triple in artillery, and in air defense and anti-tank weapons they had absolute supremacy. And what? Once again they were beaten. Once again they scrammed [sic]. Once again they screamed for us to come save them. Sadat woke me up in the middle of the night twice over the phone, 'Save me!' He demanded to send Soviet troops, and immediately! No! We are not going to fight for them."

                -Leonid Brezhnev (On the Yom Kippur War)

                Comment

                  #9
                  Re: Attack of the RoHS

                  Originally posted by mockingbird View Post
                  nVidia has not learned from its past. The new GTX 580:
                  Do you expect them to not follow RoHS compliancy and therefore lose all sales in Europe?

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Re: Attack of the RoHS

                    What happened to the days where America was the exclusive recipient of prime technology and Europe had to wait for our tablescraps. They were eternally grateful to have American-invented sophisticated technology available for distribution in their channels.

                    Now we have to conform to their retarded standards at our loss... What has America come to.
                    "We have offered them (the Arabs) a sensible way for so many years. But no, they wanted to fight. Fine! We gave them technology, the latest, the kind even Vietnam didn't have. They had double superiority in tanks and aircraft, triple in artillery, and in air defense and anti-tank weapons they had absolute supremacy. And what? Once again they were beaten. Once again they scrammed [sic]. Once again they screamed for us to come save them. Sadat woke me up in the middle of the night twice over the phone, 'Save me!' He demanded to send Soviet troops, and immediately! No! We are not going to fight for them."

                    -Leonid Brezhnev (On the Yom Kippur War)

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Re: Attack of the RoHS

                      These RoHS have very good reasons to do so. Research on this please.

                      Hint: it does not have to do with just electronics. Emissions of stuff during the manufacturing and disposal after end of life and failed parts is the biggest reasons. Ditto to lead, and mercury and other man-made elements.

                      example:
                      Going back to metal containers for drinks is acceptable, rustable, totally recyclable...plastics not since this is where infinite resource is, from oil.
                      Use food-safe internal coating not from oil for corrosive drinks.

                      Eventually there will be a way to do this by electrical to melt steel and generate more O2 to purify steels and other metals.

                      Ever heard of using ceramics? Can be molded and fired in complex shapes, cloth, covered, etc rubber insulation wirings, there are ways to do this without needing to use oil. Pitch is another. Remember we have gone long way since poorly made materials from 30's thru 60's.
                      Glass as well.

                      Many makers are going back to glass for bases and metal backs, and very little paint and little plastics except epoxy for circuit boards. Samsung is doing this, I have also noticed LG as well.

                      There are the ways, just have to demand this from makers.

                      Cheers, Wizard

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Re: Attack of the RoHS

                        I understand the need to reduce lead, I just don't understand the need to do it in very sensitive BGA applications where the amount of lead is minute. The only reason to do this would be if the manufacturer would want to increase its sales by predetermining a lifespan for its product a little more than its warranty. It's genius and I feel the wool is being pulled over peoples eyes.
                        "We have offered them (the Arabs) a sensible way for so many years. But no, they wanted to fight. Fine! We gave them technology, the latest, the kind even Vietnam didn't have. They had double superiority in tanks and aircraft, triple in artillery, and in air defense and anti-tank weapons they had absolute supremacy. And what? Once again they were beaten. Once again they scrammed [sic]. Once again they screamed for us to come save them. Sadat woke me up in the middle of the night twice over the phone, 'Save me!' He demanded to send Soviet troops, and immediately! No! We are not going to fight for them."

                        -Leonid Brezhnev (On the Yom Kippur War)

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Re: Attack of the RoHS

                          yeah heres the thing: i sort of understand where youre coming from, but i think that its not because of lead-free that most stuff is made like shit and wont last past warranty.

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Re: Attack of the RoHS

                            Cooling is the key.

                            OEM heatsinks for video card is poor except the high end versions.

                            And I have not seen any failing past warranty periods. For ones that does not last, I usually see these that had poor cooling design.

                            Cheers, Wizard

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Re: Attack of the RoHS

                              I've seen rampant reports of video card failures that are subjected to sharp hot/cold cycles, but are cooled quite well. These cards, such as the Radeon 3xxx, 4xxx and 5xxx series have temperature-based fan control. They have monstrously dense copper heatsink blocks and very powerful turbine fans. They do not fail because of poor cooling, only because the GPU temperature can suddenly fluctuate between 80 degrees celsius to 40.

                              It's not just when you're playing games. Imagine this. You go on Youtube and watch a 1080P video, the fan starts to spin because Flash is now hardware accelerated. You switch between the video and an Excel spreadsheet. You can see where this fluctuation of temperature is bound to cause a problem.
                              "We have offered them (the Arabs) a sensible way for so many years. But no, they wanted to fight. Fine! We gave them technology, the latest, the kind even Vietnam didn't have. They had double superiority in tanks and aircraft, triple in artillery, and in air defense and anti-tank weapons they had absolute supremacy. And what? Once again they were beaten. Once again they scrammed [sic]. Once again they screamed for us to come save them. Sadat woke me up in the middle of the night twice over the phone, 'Save me!' He demanded to send Soviet troops, and immediately! No! We are not going to fight for them."

                              -Leonid Brezhnev (On the Yom Kippur War)

                              Comment

                                #16
                                Re: Attack of the RoHS

                                Originally posted by mockingbird View Post
                                I've seen rampant reports of video card failures that are subjected to sharp hot/cold cycles, but are cooled quite well. These cards, such as the Radeon 3xxx, 4xxx and 5xxx series have temperature-based fan control. They have monstrously dense copper heatsink blocks and very powerful turbine fans. They do not fail because of poor cooling, only because the GPU temperature can suddenly fluctuate between 80 degrees celsius to 40.

                                It's not just when you're playing games. Imagine this. You go on Youtube and watch a 1080P video, the fan starts to spin because Flash is now hardware accelerated. You switch between the video and an Excel spreadsheet. You can see where this fluctuation of temperature is bound to cause a problem.
                                The Radeon 3870 BIOS was very lazy and would pretty much keep the fan at 10% speed until it hit about 90C. Stupid thing.

                                Comment

                                  #17
                                  Re: Attack of the RoHS

                                  Interesting. Can this be changed? I have a 2900XT which I intend to use in the future.
                                  "We have offered them (the Arabs) a sensible way for so many years. But no, they wanted to fight. Fine! We gave them technology, the latest, the kind even Vietnam didn't have. They had double superiority in tanks and aircraft, triple in artillery, and in air defense and anti-tank weapons they had absolute supremacy. And what? Once again they were beaten. Once again they scrammed [sic]. Once again they screamed for us to come save them. Sadat woke me up in the middle of the night twice over the phone, 'Save me!' He demanded to send Soviet troops, and immediately! No! We are not going to fight for them."

                                  -Leonid Brezhnev (On the Yom Kippur War)

                                  Comment

                                    #18
                                    Re: Attack of the RoHS

                                    Try evga precision. Its a good littel program!

                                    Comment

                                      #19
                                      Re: Attack of the RoHS

                                      I remember there was a way to hack the bios and change the default settings and then reflash. I will have to check that out. I did it for nVidia cards, but I don't know about ATI.
                                      "We have offered them (the Arabs) a sensible way for so many years. But no, they wanted to fight. Fine! We gave them technology, the latest, the kind even Vietnam didn't have. They had double superiority in tanks and aircraft, triple in artillery, and in air defense and anti-tank weapons they had absolute supremacy. And what? Once again they were beaten. Once again they scrammed [sic]. Once again they screamed for us to come save them. Sadat woke me up in the middle of the night twice over the phone, 'Save me!' He demanded to send Soviet troops, and immediately! No! We are not going to fight for them."

                                      -Leonid Brezhnev (On the Yom Kippur War)

                                      Comment

                                        #20
                                        Re: Attack of the RoHS

                                        why not just hard-power the fans?

                                        that's what i do on xboxes.

                                        Comment

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