Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

[mockingbird]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

Hate to tell you but every mobo brand that used the earlier i815 chips had boards like that.
Only the very late revision of i815 [called the B-step] supports Tualatin.
This is really REALLY well know. A few seconds on google will show you...

No. Intel supported Tualatins on non B-stepping boards with BIOS upgrades. In fact, the bios for the B-stepping d815xxx (I don't remember the exact model) and the non B stepping were the same. I used a lin-lin adapter. The problem was PIII-S tualatins where Intel didn't want them being used on non-server boards.

The "too big to fail" myth was recently disproved in the Banking industry.

I think I made my point perfectly. These companies did NOT fail (read: were not allowed to fail), and socialism/government stepped in to keep them alive. This was the case for the auto industry. The banks are a different story because private banks should be illegal and are de facto illegitimate.[/quote]

Abit sued - TW
MSI sued - CH & TW
Probably others I can't remember.
.

These lawsuits are for the public eye only. Judges who are heavily vested with derivatives and whatnot in these companies can't be expected to act fairly - much less even comprehend the technicalities involved. Technological litigation is a farce and a joke. Intel just had to pay billions and billions of dollars in the E.U. as a price for being more innovative and unwilling to share or license their proprietary technology with AMD. (Not that I support Intel, I despise Intel).

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

No. Intel supported Tualatins on non B-stepping boards with BIOS upgrades. In fact, the bios for the B-stepping d815xxx (I don't remember the exact model) and the non B stepping were the same. I used a lin-lin adapter. The problem was PIII-S tualatins where Intel didn't want them being used on non-server boards.

Nope
What you might find is after some board rev [which included and upgrade to the B-step chip] a model that didn't support Tualatin before now did...
But only the revisions with B-step chips -and- the new BIOS would.

I think I made my point perfectly. These companies did NOT fail (read: were not allowed to fail), and socialism/government stepped in to keep them alive. This was the case for the auto industry. The banks are a different story because private banks should be illegal and are de facto illegitimate.

The auto industry that got bailed was not in China.
[As you said, under a Totalitarian Gov't. - Although given some activities of the current administration that might make be debatable.]
At least one mobo maker in the US did go *poof*. - Soyo.
Doubtful Asus staying in business is even a 'big deal' to the Chinese gov't.

These lawsuits are for the public eye only.

I might agree in the case of a business to business Corporate lawsuits.
But not in the case of Class Action Suits brought by on the Public.
[Which is what ultimately killed Soyo..]

.

[mockingbird]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

Nope
What you might find is after some board rev [which included and upgrade to the B-step chip] a model that didn't support Tualatin before now did...
But only the revisions with B-step chips -and- the new BIOS would.

Here is the BIOS for the board I have. My board is a D815EFV/D815EPFV. Bios P21 All the boards this BIOS were for did not originally support Tualatins, but this update gives them the microcode update for BOTH the later revisions of this board which supported Tualatins and the earlier versions. My board certainly does not have a b-stepping chip, and I still have my lin-lin safely tucked away with it under a heatsink on it.

Again you were missing my point. I know about 815 and Tualatin, my point was that even B-stepping boards or A-stepping boards with adapters were not allowed to run P-III 'S' chips.

The auto industry that got bailed was not in China.
[As you said, under a Totalitarian Gov't. - Although given some activities of the current administration that might make be debatable.]

China has a much freer market than the US. Unfortunately the Chinese government has made themselves slaves to the U.S. dollar which is insane. So any move they make with their industries is approved of or disapproved of by U.S. figures. This will change in the future when China realizes they can enforce the value of their own currency with the might of their military.

At least one mobo maker in the US did go *poof*. - Soyo.
Doubtful Asus staying in business is even a 'big deal' to the Chinese gov't.

Don't be too sure about Soyo. I think Soyo is still branding cheap LCDs.

I might agree in the case of a business to business Corporate lawsuits.
But not in the case of Class Action Suits brought by on the Public.
[Which is what ultimately killed Soyo..].

Class actions lawsuits are a joke. At most they lead to recalls or extended warranties, but most of the time the company can shrug it off by harvesting the power of criminal derivatives with their bottom line gross sales. By the time people realize what has happened, the previous generation of owners have been marginalized, and a new generation of owners reap the benefits of the new hardware revisions.

This is the way it's always been in the PC market. Ruthlessness.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

Here is the BIOS for the board I have. My board is a D815EFV/D815EPFV.

Tualatin requires at least VRM spec 8.5.
D815EFV/D815EPFV have a spec 8.4 VRM.
You can't change VRM chips with a BIOS flash.

Don't be too sure about Soyo. I think Soyo is still branding cheap LCDs.

Soyo completed Chapter 7 bankruptcy in 2009.
Hsing Tech bought the name but the company itself went *poof*.
Hsing Tech = PcChips = ECS[now too]
[I think we did that already...]

.

[mockingbird]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

Tualatin requires at least VRM spec 8.5.
D815EFV/D815EPFV have a spec 8.4 VRM.
You can't change VRM chips with a BIOS flash.

It's just a spec. The bus is still the same. The lin-lin adapters allow you to run Tualatins in non-tualatin motherboards. And like I said, INTEL THEMSELVES released microcode updates for this supposedly non-tualatin board. I can boot with one in and show you if you like.

Soyo completed Chapter 7 bankruptcy in 2009.
Hsing Tech bought the name but the company itself went *poof*.
Hsing Tech = PcChips = ECS[now too]
[I think we did that already...].

Yea I remember these guys. There also used to be DTK, and a myriad of other fly-by-night vendors. Who cares? Were their products good? You can still go to China and get great off-brand motherboards and just recap them yourself and come off ahead price wise. The only thing Soyo I owned was the 6BA+ IV. Excellent motherboard, features wise. I was shocked to hear you write that they went bankrupt in '09, I thought much earlier, since I haven't seen motherboards from them in years.

I am however disgusted when certain disreputable vendors which I will not mention are advertised by hardware sites as legitimate, when it is also obvious that they too are shady. A certain power supply and video card vendor comes to mind. They tend not to honor their rebates and warranties after they go bust, but they always seem to reincarnate themselves under a different name, while cleverly disassociating themselves from their previous obligations. The gimmicky and gadget sample addict websites *cough*HardOCP*cough* are only too happy to prostitute themselves to advertise to the masses.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

It's just a spec. The bus is still the same.

Nope.
VRM 8.4 has 4 VID lines and can't hit the proper voltage.
VRM 8.5 has 5 VID lines and can.
Lin Lin cheats with a voltage divider.
No way Intel was going to approve a CPU for use on a mobo that can't do the right voltage.
They are kind'a anal that way... LOL

The only thing Soyo I owned was the 6BA+ IV. Excellent motherboard, features wise.

Soyo boards were decent designs but their use of crap caps made them go unstable after about a year.

I was shocked to hear you write that they went bankrupt in '09, I thought much earlier, since I haven't seen motherboards from them in years.

They quit selling motherboards -in the US- at socket 478 [I think].
They were still selling boards overseas for years after that though.
http://www.soyo.com.cn/topic.php?act...&productID=330
http://www.soyo.com.cn/topic.php?act...&productID=331
http://www.soyo.com.cn/topic.php?act...&productID=326
http://www.soyo.com.cn/topic.php?act...&productID=327
http://www.soyo.com.cn/topic.php?act...&productID=328

I am however disgusted when certain disreputable vendors which I will not mention are advertised by hardware sites as legitimate, when it is also obvious that they too are shady. A certain power supply and video card vendor comes to mind. They tend not to honor their rebates and warranties after they go bust, but they always seem to reincarnate themselves under a different name, while cleverly disassociating themselves from their previous obligations. The gimmicky and gadget sample addict websites *cough*HardOCP*cough* are only too happy to prostitute themselves to advertise to the masses.

I'm with ya on that one.
Also love PSU reviews that only mention the brand of the big primary cap[s] and act like it's a big deal because its a big cap. - Or better yet, show a photo of the inside where you can't see the caps and they don't mention cap brands at all. - Of course they'll write like a paragraph about how pretty the box was...
.

[Quasar]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

I am so lost with all this back and forth. Are we talking at all about current boards, or is this all older, no longer available boards?

So, again, what/who manuf are available in todays market that would be a good choice for upgrading?

I'm good with the Asrock "multi-board" if that might only require a recap on delivery. I realize the 2gb RAM limit, but I have a system with 4 gigs in it that really is no better or worse than the 2 gig system.

If I understand correctly, even choosing a E4xxx or E5xxx would easily triple my current setup in speed, smoothness, yes? If I chose the C2D CPU, do I have to change to the DDR2 RAM at that time, or is that also a "when I'm ready" possibility?

I also discovered, and no one said anything (odd) that there is a USB to Parallel cable to let me use the current printer with any board. Is this correct? Does it work, or are their tradeoffs? Going from 25 connections down to 4 it seems like something would be lost...?

Thanks again for all the (overwhelming ) input!

Q

[BigTroll]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

you would not need to upgrade to ddr2 to use a core 2 duo on the asrock board.

[mockingbird]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

Nope.
VRM 8.4 has 4 VID lines and can't hit the proper voltage.
VRM 8.5 has 5 VID lines and can.
Lin Lin cheats with a voltage divider.
No way Intel was going to approve a CPU for use on a mobo that can't do the right voltage.
They are kind'a anal that way... LOL

But they did. Here are the release notes for the BIOS' for that board: P21-0039.PDF. In there you see:

They were still selling boards overseas for years after that though.
<snip>

Wow! I had no idea. Foolish of them not to sell in the US if you ask me. They look like good products.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

I am so lost with all this back and forth. Are we talking at all about current boards, or is this all older, no longer available boards?

Both
Hashing the attributes of manufacturers.

So, again, what/who manuf are available in todays market that would be a good choice for upgrading?

Different opinions on that was reason for all the hashing and thrashing. Kinda natural for mobo-nutz.

I'm good with the Asrock "multi-board" if that might only require a recap on delivery. I realize the 2gb RAM limit, but I have a system with 4 gigs in it that really is no better or worse than the 2 gig system.

Problem is you might go through 2 or 3 before you get one that works right and if you are preemptively recapping you are voiding the warranties as you go.
You might get lucky on the first one, but you might end up spending a lot more money [and time] than just getting a better board in the first place.

If I understand correctly, even choosing a E4xxx or E5xxx would easily triple my current setup in speed, smoothness, yes?

YES!

If I chose the C2D CPU, do I have to change to the DDR2 RAM at that time, or is that also a "when I'm ready" possibility?

Kind of RAM depends on the specific mobo.

I also discovered, and no one said anything (odd) that there is a USB to Parallel cable to let me use the current printer with any board.

I discovered the hard way that these simply don't work with a lot of HP printers.
For some reason Windows and/or the HP drivers can't 'see' the printer through whatever chip they use in the adapter.
Not sure if other brands of printers have the same problem.

Are you looking for ATX or uATX?

I personally would probably look on eBay for a used Supermicro C2SBxxx series or an i945Gxx chipset based board that has the features you want.
They use polymer and Sanyo caps.
[The C2S series has one 'bug' being they don't work with KVM's, but that doesn't matter to most people.]
REALLY check the features closely. Some have the printer ports and some don't. Some have IDE ports and some don't.
-
http://www.supermicro.com/products/m...oard/Core2Duo/
-
http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trk...cro+C2S*+-chip
-

I check eBay once or twice a week for good deals on boards on my 'hunting list' and by being patient I've picked up several C2SBA+II for around $50.

This one might be an awesome deal for you and I know the vendor is okay.
It's full ATX [which I'm not sure works for you] and it comes with CPU+cooler and has the printer port you want.
- Take a look.
-
http://cgi.ebay.com/SuperMicro-Mothe...item564018f639
-
http://www.supermicro.com/products/m...3/C2SBA_II.cfm
-

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

But they did. Here are the release notes for the BIOS' for that board: P21-0039.PDF. In there you see:

The 1133 MHz version *happens* to have a core voltage compatible with VRM 8.4.
That's why Intel approved it on the board...
That's also why it was [unofficially] dubbed the "Coppermine-T".
.

[mockingbird]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

The 1133 MHz version *happens* to have a core voltage compatible with VRM 8.4.
That's why Intel approved it on the board...
That's also why it was [unofficially] dubbed the "Coppermine-T".
.

Interesting. I did, in fact, use this processor when this motherboard was in my machine.

Are you also saying that the Celeron Tualatins were VRM 8.4? If not, you will have to concede that Intel supported Tualatins. From the same Bios PDF:


Two more things. There are two versions of the 1133 chip. The 256KB Cache and the PIII-S 512KB Cache which I assume the board would reject for not being a "server-class" board.

Also, you state that the VRM spec was 8.4. Why did I need the lin-lin adapter then?

[Quasar]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

Thanks for the tip on eBay PCBONEZ. I put him in my fav. sellers, so I'll get emails occasionally.

I went to that auction and saw that there was no BIN option. Seeing what these are going for separately, doesn't hold much promise of staying within budget and leaving any bucks for RAM.

The search continues...

Q

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

Interesting. I did, in fact, use this processor when this motherboard was in my machine.

Are you also saying that the Celeron Tualatins were VRM 8.4? If not, you will have to concede that Intel supported Tualatins. From the same Bios PDF:


Two more things. There are two versions of the 1133 chip. The 256KB Cache and the PIII-S 512KB Cache which I assume the board would reject for not being a "server-class" board.

Also, you state that the VRM spec was 8.4. Why did I need the lin-lin adapter then?

.
Wifey want to do movie night tonight so here:


.

[mockingbird]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

.
Wifey want to do movie night tonight so here:


.

This still doesn't answer the fact that Intel claims support of Tualatin Celerons on a 815 A motherboard with a bios update.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

This still doesn't answer the fact that Intel claims support of Tualatin Celerons on a 815 A motherboard with a bios update.

I think it does.
I'm not going to copy past it line by line for you.
.

[mockingbird]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

I think it does.
I'm not going to copy past it line by line for you.
.

Sir, all I see are specifications for a DC-DC conversion module for the VRM 8.4 and 8.5 spec. Where have you proven that Intel did not ever in fact provide tualatin support on non-spec'd boards?

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

Sir, all I see are specifications for a DC-DC conversion module for the VRM 8.4 and 8.5 spec. Where have you proven that Intel did not ever in fact provide tualatin support on non-spec'd boards?

Your lack of comprehension is indeed amazing.

Intel does the spec'd-ing on their own boards.
If Intel supports it then it's spec'd-ed.
.

[Quasar]

New Beastie Arrives!

The "new" beastie came today -

SuperMicro Motherboard C2SBA+II 775 w/ Core 2 Duo E6850

Wow!! ALL Sanyo caps and SEPC's on CPU VRM. I'll never have to touch this board.

I have 2 gigs of Crucial PC2-5300 from another build.

Now just waiting on the HSF (pic) I ordered.

Thanks PCBONEZ for the heads up on the board combo!

Q

[mockingbird]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

The ROHS compliance bothers me. What I/O do you have on the back BTW? I wish manufacturers would still make boards with full blown PS/2 and com/LPT ports and no integrated audio.