Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

[mockingbird]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

That is not what he 'said' and based on a previous discussion that isn't what he meant either.
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If he's surprised to see a non Jap cap on an Asus board for an Intel CPU that would be even worse.
OST ain't Japanese and Asus LOVES OST.
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That's precisely what I said, that ASUS Intel ICH10/GMA4xxx motherboards had off-brand capacitors. You'll have to show me where I claimed that Intel was using off-brand caps.

And I am surprised because these Intel boards aint cheap. Asus is charging about the same as equivalent AMD offerings, and the AMD boards are full polys, so yes I'm very surprised to see off-brand caps on $100 Asus (in bold, lest you should become confused) Intel boards. And these were really off-brand. I mean like a brand no one here has probably ever heard of. I've since sold it, but if you want to investigate, the model I believe was P5G43T-M Pro:


I've circled the capacitor brand in question (Lest you have a difficult time locating it). The model that Newegg used was generous with the KZE or KZG, the one I bought had the same polys and a few panasonic electrolytics but was littered with the same off-brand garbage circled in red.

And older Asus Athlon motherboards had buggy Bios but had a very good build quality. Bumblebees, Oscons, and Rubycons. At least this was the case for the A7V.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

My mistake.

Circling the cap was a useless evolution.
I specified on an Intel board.
That's an Asus board.

Asus has always mixed in crap caps.
Not unusual at all.
In fact there is a cluster of OST below right of the circle in your photo.
Asus LOVES OST.
.

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[kc8adu]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

a moron indeed recapped it.nothing junfu makes is suitable for mobo use.hell they are not good for much of anything!

Ps I found jun fu caps on an intel brandwd mobo. Pcbonez opinion is that some moron recapped it (i got it used). But cmon they may have probs to!

[mockingbird]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

In fact there is a cluster of OST below right of the circle in your photo.
Asus LOVES OST.

The OST didn't concern me on this board. They're all very low value. And Asus isn't as guilty of using OST as much as Gigabyte is for their older boards. I've never seen an Asus board that used high value OSTs in parallel like I've seen with Gigabyte (And sometimes even for the VRM), yet even Asrock motherboards at least have KZG for the VRM.

I'd much sooner trust Asus than I would Gigabyte, but my personal preference is MSI because I've always liked their Bios'.

[yyonline]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

I've circled the capacitor brand in question

The "TK" capacitor is Toshin Kogyo. From what I can gather, OST markets their products, but the company itself is Japanese.

http://www.toshinkk.co.jp/

I haven't seen any of them fail, and they were in a lot of abit boards I used right after abit was bought out by universal. Of course, it's still a pretty limited sample set. I haven't heard much about them good or bad, as they seem to be used sparingly by motherboard manufacturers.

[shovenose]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

Well that explains why he board tok 30 secs to get through bios and otherwise worked erratically. Until my thermaltake 430w blew up and launched a few cpas loose. And frying the board.
Ps: there were nichicon hm with a 0463 date code iirc

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

The "TK" capacitor is Toshin Kogyo. From what I can gather, OST markets their products, but the company itself is Japanese.

http://www.toshinkk.co.jp/

Good eyes.. I could not read that cap..

I think you have it backwards.
TK is the distributer.
OST is the manufacturer.

Same deal with Q.I caps.
Q.I distributed and branded but OST manufactured.
Not sure Q.I still sells lytics though.

TK and Q.I are an odd kind of company.
They are distribution subsidiaries with multiple manufacturer parent company owners.
It's like if a caps mfr, an IC mfr, a transformer mfr, a resistor mfr and an LCD mfr all got together and opened a shared electronics store.
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[ratdude747]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

you mean I.Q.?

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

I've never seen an Asus board that used high value OSTs in parallel ~~~~

Not unusual at all.

Asus P5AD2 Premium - Bulging OSTs in VRM
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...05&postcount=1

And Asus has gone so low as to use Elite in VRM. - P4P800 Deluxe
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...82&postcount=3

Plenty more examples of both if you search the site.

~
There are loads of complaints about buggy erratic Asus boards on the web at large in addition to 'it just doesn't work' type complaints.

I personally suspect the reason is Asus' liberal use of OST for the small caps. VERY few people check the small caps even when a caps type issue is clearly indicated.
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I believe the small OST are crap and go bad with regularity and, as they don't get checked, the problem is never found or fixed.
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[PCBONEZ]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

you mean I.Q.?

Yes, I meant I.Q
Thank you.

[mockingbird]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

Not unusual at all.

<snip>
I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes.

I have lower end P4P variants (matx) with all Panasonic and UCC. Why they would use OST on their flagship ATT is a mystery. And P5A denotes the old ATI Xpress ICP, doesn't it? I have that motherboard in a server somewhere, next time I go there I'll crack it open and see what they use.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

I'd much sooner trust Asus than I would Gigabyte, but my personal preference is MSI because I've always liked their Bios'.

I'd put MSI a few notches below Asus and Gigabyte.

So far as caps, Asus and Gigabyte are about the same IMO. [Hit and miss.]

What turned -me- off to Asus was their customer service response to caps issues when the stolen electrolyte and bad Nichicon HM/HN shit[s] both hit the fans at the same time.
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LOTS of Asus boards had one problem or the other or both.
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A customer would have a board with WELL KNOWN caps issues and Asus would have customers [at a minimum] change the PSU, CPU, and RAM and often they directed a reinstall of the OS before they would authorize an RMA.
Some customers TOLD THEM "the caps are bloated" and STILL got run through the gauntlet before an RMA number got issued.
It was obviously deliberate and designed to tire out as many customers as possible [get them to just give up] in order to honor as few warranties as possible.
[Asus has cleaned most of these complaints out of their own forum but I'm sure they still exist in other places on the web.]
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Asus - TO THIS DAY - has yet to admit there ever was any kind of caps issue with anything.

Gigabyte, while slow to realize the problem and overwhelmed with too many RMA's [as was/were every other mobo mfr at the time] did admit the problem and at least -tried- to make things right.
Same same with Abit.
Intel proactively sent out notices to customers with problem boards [if they knew who they were.]
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With a huge problem like that there is a point where a company has to choose between continuing to make old mistakes right and going out of business.
Going out of business doesn't make things right for the customers having problems.
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Gigabyte helping as many as they could without going out of business shows they give'a shit about their end users.
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Asus pretending the problem doesn't exist at all clearly shows they don't give'a shit about end users.

MSI behaved like Asus until they got sued, THEN, with a court watching, they tried to make things right.

Abit jumped on trying to make things right and ended up getting sued anyway.
- AND they switched to all Jap caps. Unfortunately the problem with HM/HN wasn't identified yet and a Abit used a bunch.

Asus should have been sued too [more so than most others] but the company is so big no one had the balls to try.
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[PCBONEZ]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

Along that line....
- I think a lot of the early problems with XP were actually caps issues.
.

[mockingbird]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

I'd put MSI a few notches below Asus and Gigabyte.
It was obviously deliberate and designed to tire out as many customers as possible [get them to just give up] in order to honor as few warranties as possible.

Asus is Taiwanese/Chinese owned and operated. The only peaceful relationship they value is with their wholesalers, not the end consumer.

[Asus has cleaned most of these complaints out of their own forum but I'm sure they still exist in other places on the web.]

Dell does the same thing, and they're an American company. CMedia closed down their forums entirely, and I have no idea where to get their beta drivers anymore... The point... I used to get upset about these things 'till I came to realize is that Asus and all the other multinational corporations are not what you grew up with. If you don't buy their stuff, someone else will. It's socialism. There's no competition.
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Asus - TO THIS DAY - has yet to admit there ever was any kind of caps issue with anything.

When you get nVidia to admit that 4 generations of their products were defective and had a 90% failure rate (Yes I am aware of the recent class-action settlement, but honestly, it's waaaaay too late), Asus will admit to their follies. The facts are that while Abit was taking a huge chunk of their market share with well designed but poorly furnished motherboards, people were snatching them like hotcakes while ignoring Asus' well-built yet less featured products.

Did Asus become lazy or adapt to a miserly consumer base? BOTH. You can't blame everything on them, at least their older motherboards used quality components. People simply did not want to pay the $50 for Asus built boards, and why should they? My Abit BX6 2.0 with Teapo caps lasted for years.

Now OTOH how long did it take for Asus to catch up to Abit in terms of features? Way too long.

Gigabyte, while slow to realize the problem and overwelmed with too many RMA's [as was/were every other mobo mfr at the time] did admit the problem and at least -tried- to make things right.

Gigabyte boards plain out had design problems regardless of which caps were used. A recent example is Gigabytes P35 offerings, which while are adorned with all polymer capacitors, have an unexplained defect which cause them to malfunction.

Same same with Abit.

Abit could have survived had their CEOs not looted and dissolved the company. I would have paid the premium for an Abit board and recapped it myself their features were so good.

Intel proactively sent out notices to customers [if they knew who they were.]

No one wants Intel boards because Intel are too square. For example, I have an old 815 board that will not accept P3-S chips because they are not "supported". The computer will actually post and tell you to turn it off and take out the CPU because it's not supported. The microcode is there, they just don't want you to use server-class P3s in their consumer board. The Bios have some weird proprietary format I can't make heads or tails of. And G-d forbid they should release a P45 board with TWO PCIE slots!!! Sacrilege!!! Intel boards such because they offer no innovation, and people who think they are clever because they are 'safe' by buying them are bufoons.
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With a huge problem like that there is a point where a company has to choose between continuing to make old mistakes right and going out of business.

As long as Asus is a multinational corporation, they will remain well in business no matter what garbage they spew out.
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Gigabyte helping as many as they could without going out of business shows they give'a shit about their end users.

Gigabyte is risky like I said. I usually just return motherboards to the wholesaler, and I pitty the fool who attempts coherent conversation with their CSRs. The Chinese have never been known for their customer service ("Hello sir, we understand your kidneys have been removed while you were sedated in a Shanghai back alley, please stay on the line, while you are transfered to customer service"). The Chinese are opportunistic beasts and will not stop for a moment to offer some human courtesy.

Asus should have been sued too [more so than most others] but the company is so big no one had the balls to try.
.

This is delusional thinking. There will be no suing anywhere. These companies are backed by totalitarian governments in a multinational world. As long as their bottom line is reached - which is GROSS sales - the moon could be falling and they wouldn't care. Never expect a narcissist to recognize GOOD business from LOTS OF business.

[shovenose]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

Wierdly enough the intel board said d955xbx (i remember) but apparenty that disnt exist. Only an xbk exists. Maybe it was a fake board?

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

Wierdly enough the intel board said d955xbx (i remember) but apparenty that disnt exist. Only an xbk exists. Maybe it was a fake board?

Intel makes a few boards that are only for distribution in Asia.
Still only use Jap caps but they are a bugger to find any information on.
.

[shovenose]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

Would intel use the defective 2004 nchicon hm?
So it said intel d955xbx. Which is asian. Them it had jun fu caps is many of yhe small caps. It took 10 secs to even display then30secs to clear bios. And the onboard sound disnt work. Could this have been counterfiet?

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

Asus is Taiwanese/Chinese owned and operated. The only peaceful relationship they value is with their wholesalers, not the end consumer.

BINGO!!!

Dell does the same thing, and they're an American company. CMedia closed down their forums entirely, and I have no idea where to get their beta drivers anymore... The point... I used to get upset about these things 'till I came to realize is that Asus and all the other multinational corporations are not what you grew up with. If you don't buy their stuff, someone else will. It's socialism. There's no competition.

Two wrongs makes it right???

When you get nVidia to admit that 4 generations of their products were defective and had a 90% failure rate (Yes I am aware of the recent class-action settlement, but honestly, it's waaaaay too late),

I don't like nVidia either.

Asus will admit to their follies.

Has never happened.

Did Asus become lazy or adapt to a miserly consumer base? BOTH. You can't blame everything on them, at least their older motherboards used quality components.

True. Back in the 90's they consistently used good parts.

People simply did not want to pay the $50 for Asus built boards, and why should they? My Abit BX6 2.0 with Teapo caps lasted for years.

Teapos lasting doesn't surprise me.
The problem with Teapo they aren't consistent and you never know.
Your 'luck' with Teapo stems from how good the alumium they bought that week was.

Now OTOH how long did it take for Asus to catch up to Abit in terms of features? Way too long.

I'll agree with that.
I don't remember the model now but I had a socket 5 [or maybe non-super socket 7] Abit Baby-AT board that was jumper-less.

Gigabyte boards plain out had design problems regardless of which caps were used. A recent example is Gigabytes P35 offerings, which while are adorned with all polymer capacitors, have an unexplained defect which cause them to malfunction.

When Asus went all polymer there was a HUGE flood of brand new Asus boards showing up on EE with unexplained stability and non-working funtction problems. Most of which where not correctable.
- I'd say Gigabyte = Asus on that one to.

Abit could have survived had their CEOs not looted and dissolved the company.

""CEOs not looted"" That was in 2003 & 2004 and is not why they closed in 2009.
Abit did not bankrupt, parent company just wanted out of the motherboard business.
- Probably because too few people are willing [or smart enough] to pay for quality.

No one wants Intel boards because Intel are too square. For example, I have an old 815 board that will not accept P3-S chips because they are not "supported".

Hate to tell you but every mobo brand that used the earlier i815 chips had boards like that.
Only the very late revision of i815 [called the B-step] supports Tualatin.
This is really REALLY well know. A few seconds on google will show you...
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Now, if you want to slam Intel for limiting the i815 to 512Mb RAM then I'll chear you on!

And along that line..
There were a number of Asus boards that should [based on the chipset] support more RAM or higher density RAM that would not because Asus did not supply the necessary wiring and/or BIOS code to accomidate other situations. [Please refer to numerous RAM ads that say: "Except Asus".]

As long as Asus is a multinational corporation, they will remain well in business no matter what garbage they spew out.

The "too big to fail" myth was recently disproved in the Banking industry.

Gigabyte is risky like I said.

So is Asus.
Any company that doesn't give'a shit about end users is risky.

The Chinese have never been known for their customer service ("Hello sir, we understand your kidneys have been removed while you were sedated in a Shanghai back alley, please stay on the line, while you are transfered to customer service"). The Chinese are opportunistic beasts and will not stop for a moment to offer some human courtesy.

- - - And as you pointed out earlier::

Asus is Taiwanese/Chinese owned and operated.

This is delusional thinking. There will be no suing anywhere. These companies are backed by totalitarian governments in a multinational world.

Wrong guess. - Already happened more than once.
Abit sued - TW
MSI sued - CH & TW
Probably others I can't remember.

.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

Would intel use the defective 2004 nchicon hm?
So it said intel d955xbx. Which is asian. Them it had jun fu caps is many of yhe small caps. It took 10 secs to even display then30secs to clear bios. And the onboard sound disnt work. Could this have been counterfiet?

~~ CLUE ~~
The HM & HN weren't -known- to be defective until -after- they were used by the millions.

A good Jap brand with a bum series caught nearly every manufacturer by surprise.
That one even caught Apple/MAC.
The only companies that -I think- avoided that issue.
- Jetway - Because they don't buy caps that good in the first place.
- Supermicro - Because they don't seem to ever use Nichicon.
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[PCBONEZ]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

Could this have been counterfiet?

Missed that..
More likely some moron re-capped it.
It -might- have had bad HM they were replacing.