Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

[Quasar]

I'm looking to upgrade a P4 775 system to Core 2. I am lost when it comes to all the newer choices like Dual Core/Core 2 Duo/Core 2 Quad/ i3/i5...???

I would enjoy any suggestions or recommendations.

I want to keep the cost down but don't mind a few bucks more if it really gets me something. Something around $200 would be fine.

I'd like to stay with XP Pro but should I consider the 64 bit version?

Would any parts from the old P4 be transferable to the new? Things such as:
- PSU
- RAM (2 gig, DDR400)
- heat sink-fan
- video card PCI-e 7300 series

Currently looking at this: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...405&CatId=1599

HELP!

[Wrog]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

It really depends on what you're looking to do with the new box. Are you going to play some games, do general web surfing/message boarding, or encode video? What is your current motherboard (make/model)? Some LGA775 boards can support at least a few of the older Core 2 Duo processors, so it may be as simple as a drop-in replacement. If you're not going to install any additional memory (e.g. staying with 2GB) then don't go to WinXP x64. All of your core components would transfer if your motherboard supports a LGA775 Core 2 Duo natively. Otherwise, you're looking at a motherboard and RAM to go along with the processor. There are also some entry level CPUs (dual core, not a "full" Core 2 duo but based on the same architecture) that offer great price/performance ratio, such as the E5200. Pick up an inexpensive motherboard to pair it with along with a set of value RAM and you'll still stay within your $200 budget.

For now, post your current hardware and that'll help determine your options!

[Quasar]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

Thanks Wrog for the reply.

Motherboard is Intel D915GAV
Do I need a new case and PSU? This one is an ATX with a 450w PSU.

It's primary use is home office with Internet and heavy use of MS Office. I do some video work, but only home vids, not pro. No gaming, but I would like to get a TV card in here for PIP type of use.

The numbers such as E5200 leave me with this blank stare. I have no idea if that is better or worse than the E7500 I'm looking at. An "inexpensive motherboard" again leaves me wondering. The one in the link is $70. Is that too cheap, or not what I need?

I've not kept current with all the new equipment, and Intel lists the Core 2 as "Previous Generation"...?

i7 !?! I just now saw that....

[yyonline]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

Intel 915 does not support Core 2.

450 watt power supply is probably adequate, unless you plan on putting a power hungry video card in there. Your existing video card, while not cutting edge by any means, would work fine in a new system.

I've found anandtech bench very useful for comparing CPUs: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/CPU/2 you pick 2 cpus from the list on the right, and it loads a page with benchmarks for comparison. It tells you "lower is better" or "higher is better" for each benchmark. If your exact CPU isn't in the list, picking one in the same family and doing a bit of extrapolation should give you an idea. The wikipedia list of intel CPUs is handy for determining what CPUs are related by core, stepping, etc.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

"Dual Core" = 2 processors in one CPU package.
"Quad Core" = 4 processors in one CPU package.
"Core" depending on how it is used either means a processor in a package [applies to all kinds/brands of CPU] -or- as a marketing name for Intel's processor architecture.
"Core 2" is the newer marketing name for the same Intel processor architecture.

I don't see a reason to go with x64 XP unless:
- You want more than 4GB RAM.
- You have software that won't run on x32.
Few people that have 4GB actually use it all and even fewer with x64 actually need it,,, but the pretty paint on the bandwagon sucks 'em right in anyway.
[That said, it is a GREAT idea to build a system capable of x64 - but hold of the transition until you start seeing software you want that won't run on x32. By then XP-x64 should be cheaper.]

If have intentions of using your old RAM then make sure you check what RAM the mobo uses. The one you linked to only takes DDR3.

.

[shovenose]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

your mobo cannot support a real dual core cpu. yes pentium d (800mhz fsb) would work but they suck run hot suck a shitload of power, and perform similar to a p4ht so hteyre useless shit really get a core i3, a nice mobo, and some ram

[Wrog]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

It's primary use is home office with Internet and heavy use of MS Office. I do some video work, but only home vids, not pro. No gaming, but I would like to get a TV card in here for PIP type of use.

Unless you plan to do more heavy duty video processing, probably best to stick with a dual core processor. The E7500 is definitely capable, and that's not a bad price for the motherboard/CPU combo. There's another combo deal on the same site that seems to be more enticing for the tasks you are planning on using it for: E6500 combo for $129.99. You can put the extra $45 towards maxing out your DDR3 memory that you'll need to buy.

The numbers such as E5200 leave me with this blank stare. I have no idea if that is better or worse than the E7500 I'm looking at. An "inexpensive motherboard" again leaves me wondering. The one in the link is $70. Is that too cheap, or not what I need?

The E5200 could be described as a baby brother to the E7500 (or E6500). Same architecture but has less internal cache. $70 isn't expensive but you can go cheaper. I'll see if I can find any Core 2 LGA775 motherboards that support DDR. I believe that Asrock made some of these type boards early on.

I've not kept current with all the new equipment, and Intel lists the Core 2 as "Previous Generation"...?

i7 !?! I just now saw that....

The newest architecture is the i3, i5 and i7 lines... generally more processing power than the previous Core 2 lines, but more expensive. Would have difficulty upgrading even to the i3 without going over your budget.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

The numbers such as E5200 leave me with this blank stare.

.
The differences are the die size/density [aka 'process'] - the cache - and FSB

E2xxx - 65nm - 1Mb - 800 FSB
E4xxx - 65nm - 2Mb - 800 FSB
E5xxx - 45nm - 2Mb - 800 FSB
E6xxx - 45nm - 2Mb - 1066 FSB
E7xxx - 45nm - 3Mb - 1066 FSB
E8xxx - 45nm - 6Mb - 1333 FSB

The "xxx" primarily defines the CPU's clock speed within the series.
Higher implies faster but the numbers aren't consistent from one series to another like a standardized code and there are a few 'ringers' with additional [or lacking] certain features.
You just have to look it up.

The Qxxxx have two banks of cache in the CPU package instead of one and use higher FSB but I'm not going to list all of those. They still cost way more than they are worth.

E2xxx is called "Pentium Dual Core" but that's just the marketing name.
In reality they are an entry level C2D, which is also just a marketing name.
The Xeon socket 771 CPU's actually the same cores mounted in different packages with different features enabled and disabled.
[The primary difference being support for another CPU in another CPU socket.]

If your old CPU is netburst architecture then even just an E2180 would be a significant upgrade.
A "Pentium D" with dual cores has two Netburst architecture cores.
Netburst architecture is both a power hog and slower than the newer Core architecture.

I don't know what the 'numbers' are but the 'feel' going from a 3Ghz P4 Prescott to an E2180 is like 4x or 5x faster.

.

I can't see anyone NEEDING the i-whatever architecture for another 4 or 5 years plus I've heard of compatibility issues with popular software. [If I remember the complaints I read correctly, some versions of photoshop 'don't like' some i-whatever configurations. I don't care about i-whatever yet anyway so I didn't hit 'record' button under my left ear when I read it,,, sorry.]
I would leave i-whatever for the next new system after this one.
By then it will be standard, not so pricey, and someone else will have had the privilege of working out all the compatibility bugs.
.
.

[BigTroll]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.as...4coredual-vsta

this is a good motherboard you can find it on newegg for 69 i think, takes DDR so you can use your old ram and upgrade later however its stuck at 2gigs.

the COmputer iam on right now has a 915 chipset it rocks
intel D915GAG
3.4Ghz Pentium 4HT PRESCOTT SUPERIOR 90 NANOMETER TECH
4x512 DDR 400 so 2gigs
400GIG Seagate ENTERPRISE CLASS HD
Lite ON COMBO DRIVE.
GMA 900 FULL QUARTZ EXTREME AND CORE IMAGE ACCELERATION.
I shoved all this in a slim HT case and RUN OSX 10.5.2 on it its all powered by a small HEC 200 watt power supply with TEAPO primaries so i know iam good..

[weirdlookinguy]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

You said you're looking at an E7500? I have one of those in my main rig and it rocks. Upgraded from a 775 P4 last year and it made a world of difference. The P4 got the job done but it was slow and stuttery. This Core 2 Duo E7500 glides like a hot knife through butter.

My E7500 is paired with a Gigabyte motherboard, a 400w Delta PSU, an ATI 4850 card, and 6GB of DDR2. It sits inside an Antec Solo case (cool running case, breathes well). That system ROCKS, it has been incredibly stable and has more than enough power for anything I've yet to throw at it.

[weirdlookinguy]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.as...4coredual-vsta

this is a good motherboard you can find it on newegg for 69 i think, takes DDR so you can use your old ram and upgrade later however its stuck at 2gigs.

the COmputer iam on right now has a 915 chipset it rocks
intel D915GAG
3.4Ghz Pentium 4HT PRESCOTT SUPERIOR 90 NANOMETER TECH
4x512 DDR 400 so 2gigs
400GIG Seagate ENTERPRISE CLASS HD
Lite ON COMBO DRIVE.
GMA 900 FULL QUARTZ EXTREME AND CORE IMAGE ACCELERATION.
I shoved all this in a slim HT case and RUN OSX 10.5.2 on it its all powered by a small HEC 200 watt power supply with TEAPO primaries so i know iam good..

Asrock = Asus = No.

DDR? Hell to the no. It would be stupid to invest in a DDR motherboard, it would bottleneck a Core 2 Duo. DDR2 would be a much wiser investment.

[Quasar]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

Thank you all. Your responses have un-muddied the waters a bit.

In reviewing the Intel board again, I find no parallel port. That I need.

(yyonline) The anandtech site link was interesting, to say the least. I got the ability to see a close approximation of the old CPU (P4 640, they have a 660 listed) versus the newer CPU's. wow!

(Wrog, BigTroll) The suggestions about Asrock from seem to be excellent and I'm now considering the 4CoreDual-SATA2 R2.0 as it allows me to use the old RAM and even the old processor and delay the step up C2D until cash permits. Plus, it has a parallel port. It also indicates compliance up to Windows 7, so if and when I get dragged kicking and screaming into that "upgrade", at least the board should be acceptable.

(PCBONEZ) Finally, an easy to understand comparison of the CPU's. Thank you! It does start to make sense. I did see the "and there are a few 'ringers' with additional [or lacking] certain features" when browsing Intel... "This number series all have 4mb L2 cache except for this one and that one." From what you said, I'll stick with the 32 bit XP version.

(shovenose) Less cussing, more info, please.

(weirdlookingguy) Why no to Asus? I've enjoyed their units over the years. Never had the Asrock flavor though. The 4CoreDual supports DDR & DDR2 and when I do move up to the C2D chip, I can upgrade the RAM.

Which Gigabyte board are you using? Again, if I can put it together for around $200, I'd be happy.

Thanks again everyone who has taken the time to respond, and in advance to anyone else's suggestions and recommendations!

Q

[BigTroll]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

Asrock = Asus = No.

DDR? Hell to the no. It would be stupid to invest in a DDR motherboard, it would bottleneck a Core 2 Duo. DDR2 would be a much wiser investment.

Yes But did you look at the board it has both DDR and DDR2 slots, not to mention agp and pcie so its a great board if you got lots of older components lying around and want to put in a later core 2 chip. i never heard nothing but good things about asrock, i never owned one but they are a subsiderary of asus so the quality should be okay. that said my main rig uses a Gigabyte EP45-UD3P which is a great overclocking board with my Q9450. too bad its not for sale anymore.

[weirdlookinguy]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

Ah I see, I didn't know you could also put DDR2 in there I assumed it was DDR only. My bad, you know what they say about assuming... .

Asus doesn't get a whole lot of love around badcaps.net. We've seen crappy engineering in their video cards, EEE netbooks that have fallen apart, and lots of dead asus motherboards that appear to be fine but refuse to boot. That being said, a lot of people do love their asus and quality is a crapshoot no matter who you pick anyway. If that Asrock mobo fits your needs, personally I'd say go for it.

EDIT: forgot to mention, the Gigabyte board I am using is the EP45-UD3P. BigTroll, I see we have the same motherboard. It's a good one, huh? I agree, it's a shame they stopped making it. Quasar, it's not in the price range you're looking for, mine was $130 I believe.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

Most people in here [certainly not all] with significant experience and old enough to grow a presentable beard don't like Asus for one reason or another.

ASRock come from an agreement between Hsing Tech and Asus.
Hsing Tech does the actual building for Asus.
Hsing Tech is the long time parent company of PcChips.
[From what I understand, they also now own [or absorbed] ECS and Soyo.]
So basically: ASRock are low end low quality boards.
.

[BigTroll]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

yeah, i did some work for my friend and we doing trade deals and stuff so i traded my old p35 DS3L for the EP45 UD3P. My q9450 is stock 2.66ghz on the p35 i had to have the northbridge volted up a ton and my cpu vcore at like 1.38 just to get it to boot at 3.2ghz and it ran hot, after getting the UD3P I can ran 3.2ghz no problem not even that the VCore is undervolted to 1.15 and it passes all OCCT and Linpak tests. i even have speed step on just for kicks :P iam extremly happy with this board.

[mockingbird]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

I think the 915 can handle Core2 as long as they're not the newer half-multiplier models.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

Asus plays this little marketing game...
-
They build a few very fancy good quality high end gamer boards and push them on the gamer community.
On the web the gamer community is very LOUD.
Those FEW way over priced boards are very good for gaming so the gamers [on the gamers sites] start jumping up and down on the virtual sofa screaming "Asus is great! Asus is Great!" like a band of mindless morons.
Other people [lots of them] hear all the screaming [because it's so loud] and decide Asus must be good, so they run out and buy an Asus.
Problem is -most- Asus boards aren't so great [and some are crap] compared to other brands so those people that brought them based on 'noise intensity' end up bringing them to people like those that frequent here to fix all the problems.
.
No offense to knowledgeable techs that game too.
You aren't who I'm talking about.
.

[mockingbird]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

I don't understand the loathing for Asus. I just worked with an Asus M4A88TD-M motherboard. All ferrite core chokes, ALL polymer capacitors from UCC I think. Not one single electrolytic, even the tiniest ones were polymer. And this is not a high end model, it goes for around $90.

Their Intel boards are overpriced though and are not all poly. I had a couple of ICH10/G45 motherboards and I was shocked to see some second-rate Chinese capacitors. Luckily, they were not in important places.

[Quasar]

Re: Upgrade system to Core 2 - Recommendations?

GA-EP45-UD3P
Newegg - deactivated
Amazon - currently unavailable
Ebay - 2 used about $100; 1 new one the idiots have walked up to $365

It doesn't have parallel anyway, so I pass.

Didn't know Asus had fallen. It looked like it was going to be a "nice fit" board... What a shame. Has anyone seen any info on problems with this board? I've been Googling but haven't seen any "this board sucks/died" kind of posts. Anadtech forums actually goes on to something around 2200 posts on this series of boards.

Any board brand/model that I should consider? Abit?

Q