A Look at Caps for Indonesia Market

[PCBONEZ]

Re: A Look at Caps for Indonesia Market

Sanyo with an X vent is fake.
I sent samples of some like that to Sanyo for testing and one of the things they said was they always use the K vent.
No "K" -> not Sanyo.

The dark gold paint is not legit Sanyo.
Legit Sanyo's gold color is light/washed out looking.

If the "V" (for volts) is not the same height as the numbers next to it -> Not Sanyo.
[On the fakes I had the V was shorter than the numbers.]

Legit Sanyo may or may not have a space between the numbers and the "V" so that's not an indicator.

Sanyo WX series (legit) don't always have the series marked on them.
If it's Green/Gold with no series shown then it's either legit WX or a fake.

Sanyo ?? 1500uf 6.3v = .03
For WX in that size ESR should be .023 by data sheet.
Meter tolerance or fake cap? - Too close. - I'm not taking bets.

~~

Date code on suspected fake ZL begins with an "S".
The others all begin with a "T".
... Different factory?

How the hell did I end up in this old thread??????????

.

.

[larrymoencurly]

Re: A Look at Caps for Indonesia Market

Sanyo with an X vent is fake.
I sent samples of some like that to Sanyo for testing and one of the things they said was they always use the K vent.
No "K" -> not Sanyo.

Does that mean I recently received some fakes?

left to right: CX series, 4700uF, 6.3V, CA series, 3300uF, 16V, WX series, 2200uF, 10V



The rubber plugs on the bottom of the caps on the left and right have a slot running between the leads, but the plugs for the 3300uF caps do not.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: A Look at Caps for Indonesia Market

Yes those are fake.
Sanyo said the K stamp was their trademark.
No K then it's not Sanyo.
-
Note: Sanyo's K is not the same shape as Rubycon's K.
The \ line hits the / line in a different place.

[Wizard]

Re: A Look at Caps for Indonesia Market

From the caps I have seen MOST caps with flat bung tend to be fake or junk except the small caps around 5mm or so is hard to tell.

Cheers, Wizard

[Krankshaft]

Re: A Look at Caps for Indonesia Market

As Wizard said cheap caps seem to like to use either a flat plain bung or the concentric circled bullseye bung. Probably because they're simpler to mold.

The real cap manufacturers use more complex designs.

[370forlife]

Re: A Look at Caps for Indonesia Market

Does that mean I recently received some fakes?

left to right: CX series, 4700uF, 6.3V, CA series, 3300uF, 16V, WX series, 2200uF, 10V



The rubber plugs on the bottom of the caps on the left and right have a slot running between the leads, but the plugs for the 3300uF caps do not.

These are not necessarily fake, as sanyo uses this undersized X type vent on their larger caps.

(at least according to capacitor web : http://capacitor.web.fc2.com/s.html#sanyo)

[Per Hansson]

Re: A Look at Caps for Indonesia Market

I also think Sanyo caps with X vent are not counterfeit
Before I started buying caps from Big Pope I bought them at a very reputable Swedish store called Elfa

The bigger value ones had X vents and the smaller values had the characteristic K vent...

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showth...ighlight=Sanyo

[PCBONEZ]

Re: A Look at Caps for Indonesia Market

You can live in denial all you want and put what ever makes you happy in your gear.

Capacitor.web at fc2 is a great reference but it's not a definitive authority. The author is a just another solder-jockey [just like most of us] that made a list from the web, his contacts, and his trash can. If you translate enough of the site you'll see a lot of what he says is unconfirmed speculation - and he admits it right up front.
- He is not above being duped by counterfeits.

I told you what -> SANYO <- said after they [Sanyo USA] sent my samples their Lab in Japan to be validated.
- That's just a bit more authoritative than Capacitor.web at fc2.

There are a SHIT TON of counterfeit Sanyos on the market right now.
I've even seen Sanyo counterfeits WITH the K-vent now.

How do I know?
Sanyo flat told me they never made the WG series in a 2200uF 16v [even for a custom order]. That's what I sent in to be tested.

Now look here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=120482099756
Really nice counterfeits aren't they?
[I bought some to prove it.]
Not only a size Sanyo never made but if you look close the "WG" is in the wrong font.
The 'V' for voltage is not the same height as the numbers. [It is on real Sanyo.]
Bung is the cheap flat one all the way across.
[That's not what Sanyo uses. That was also addressed in their report.]
Interestingly, the date code is exactly the same as the fakes I got a year and a half ago that had the wrong vent and the wrong color markings in addition to all of the above.
.

So, put what ever makes you happy in your gear.
.

[370forlife]

Re: A Look at Caps for Indonesia Market

Uhh, why suddenly such a attitude? I didn't say that pcbonez is retarded and not to listen to him, I said that they

==========may==========

not be counterfeit, as capacitor web show those two vents as being used on their caps, now he may have that vent on there because those were on counterfeits and he not know better, who knows.

Someone has a bit of attitude of "i'm right you're wrong, this is not a forum where other people can express ideas and knowledge, only me" on here lately...

[PCBONEZ]

Re: A Look at Caps for Indonesia Market

My attitude isn't sudden. - I've always had it.

And what's wrong with: "Put what ever makes you happy in your gear."?
- That says: -> You have a right to your opinion, and I have a right to mine.

I told you where my opinion came from and why I don't buy your source as valid.
- That's NORMAL in technical fields.
If it's too much for your delicate sensitivities perhaps you should join a kiddie forum.
.

[370forlife]

Re: A Look at Caps for Indonesia Market

>>And what's wrong with: "Put what ever makes you happy in your gear."?
- That says: -> You have a right to your opinion, and I have a right to mine.<<

No, it's suggesting that I use counterfeit caps. I don't. I never will.

>>If it's too much for your delicate sensitivities perhaps you should join a kiddie forum.<<

To that, I say:

[PCBONEZ]

Re: A Look at Caps for Indonesia Market

Well let us review:

I said: "The manufacturer's Laboratory says this. .... "

You said: "That can't be right. At least according to Billy Joe Jim Bob."

~~

I then I told you your source isn't all that credible.
- Which it isn't.

Apparently then YOU were offended because you're afraid you are using counterfeit caps.
Your solution:
"Let's deny they are counterfeit. That'll make them legit and I'll feel better".

Hey kid,
Everyone get's screwed with counterfeits now and then.
That's just how it goes.
.

[Per Hansson]

Re: A Look at Caps for Indonesia Market

PCBONEZ; Interesting
Could you take a look at the ones I posted in this thread?
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showth...ighlight=Sanyo

I have fired away a mail to Elfa asking them where they buy their caps...

[370forlife]

Re: A Look at Caps for Indonesia Market

Well, good thing I don't buy sanyo's. Or any caps on ebay that is.

>>I said: "The manufacturer's Laboratory says this. .... "

You said: "That can't be right. At least according to Billy Joe Jim Bob."<<

Again, putting words in my mouth. I didn't say "can't" I said may MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY MAY

And no, not the month which I think you will suddenly say something about me actually somehow talking about the month of may when I said that.

Big fucking difference between may and can't.

>>I then I told you your source isn't all that credible.<<

Ok, but it is a source, it has been used many times before with luck. Just so happens it isn't so good at identifying fakes.

>>Apparently then YOU were offended because you're afraid you are using counterfeit caps.
Your solution:
"Let's deny they are counterfeit. That'll make them legit and I'll feel better".<<

Nope, again, I never said I was using counterfeit caps. I have never bought sanyo's. I only buy nichicon and ucc from digikey. Again, I never denied them being counterfeit, I just said that capacitor web also has that vent listed under sanyo. Could it be that these are such good fakes that he put that up there thinking they are real? Possibly.

[370forlife]

Re: A Look at Caps for Indonesia Market

PCBONEZ; Interesting
Could you take a look at the ones I posted in this thread?
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showth...ighlight=Sanyo

I have fired away a mail to Elfa asking them where they buy their caps...

i have seen those x vents on larger sanyo but not the 10mm.

Isn't that what I said originally? But weren't the caps you put in that psu 12.5mm, why the 10mm rubycons were needed.

These are not necessarily fake, as sanyo uses this undersized X type vent on their larger caps.

Why, yes I did.

I have sanyo with that vent on a dell poweredge board from about 1997.

I would think dell would buy straight from manufacturer.

They may be counterfeit. There is evidence on both sides, PCBONEZ has information from sanyo saying that they don't make anything without the K vent, while other people have seen these used by large OEM's and gotten these from major sellers. I would just stay away from them until they can be verified as being fake or not.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: A Look at Caps for Indonesia Market

370forlife
You aren't very good at being a hot-head yet, but I see potential.

Some points.
-
If you aren't the original owner of a board, or whatever part, as in bought it brand new, then you dunno -for sure- if the caps you find on it are original or not.
- Even if you talk to the original owner you can't be 100% sure. What's to say some shop they took it to umpteen years ago [and forgot about] didn't replace a few caps and not tell the owner exactly what they did to fix it?
- So, what you find on a used part isn't necessarily a good reference as to what legit looks like. Now, if you see the same thing multiple times from multiple manufacturers the level of confidence goes up.

-
There most certainly CAN BE counterfeits [of ANY brand] that are so good visually the only way to tell -for sure- is to test the electrolyte and metals in a lab.
-
[Related: The Sanyo doc said the shape of the roll inside the can was wrong which judging by the photo provided they found out with some kind of radiography. They didn't say what the shape of a legit one is, just that the samples I sent were wrong.]

Sorry but ...
[QUOTE=370forlife]No, it's suggesting that I use counterfeit caps. I don't. I never will.[QUOTE]
... That says paranoia, and fact is you wouldn't know for sure.
If you [as you say] only buy from Digikey then you never replace Vcore caps with appropriate grades, do ya...
-
If you aren't running a spectrum analyzer in the back room to test the constituents of the aluminum and electrolyte [and don't have reference data for legit caps] then you won't know -for sure- if you did get fakes.
Not using Sanyo and not buying on eBay doesn't magically plug all the holes counterfeits can leak in through.
Fakes come in Rubycon, Nichicon, Chemicon, and Panasonic too and eBay is far from being the primary means of their distribution. The volume sold through eBay wouldn't justify a production run.

~~
I'm just saying:
No one knows FOR SURE if any cap they buy is legit unless they buy direct from the manufacturer or have a Lab to do QC testing.
-
Even 'authorized distributors' occationally cheat and source from outside their authorized channels to save a buck. I spent some of the last couple days trolling Chinese electronics wholesale ads [personal study/interest] and even semi-large caps like 3300uF/2200uF 16v go for like 3 cents a pop in quantities around 100k. For those distributors saving 10-20 cents 100k times is a nice bonus that they don't have to [correctly] document and that is probably a small order for them.

Basically:
There are ways to spot some counterfeits but there is no way to catch all of them.
- That sux but it is.
.

[370forlife]

... That says paranoia, and fact is you wouldn't know for sure.
If you [as you say] only buy from Digikey then you never replace Vcore caps with appropriate grades, do ya...

He he, nope I have never done a motherboard personally. A couple of video cards, and numerous power supplies, The only motherboard I had recapped is a abit vp6 that I sent to topcat a long time back. The other is this ecs with a soldered on 1600+. The OST's were replaced with Rubycon MBZ by my friend who I got it from, who got them from topcat.

So basically you are saying we should never do a recap because no matter who you are buying from you might be getting a fake...ok then.

[370forlife]

what have I become

He he

Didn't even notice that I did that.

He he...

He he...

He he...

<wink>



ugh, i4004

[PCBONEZ]

Re: A Look at Caps for Indonesia Market

PCBONEZ; Interesting
Could you take a look at the ones I posted in this thread?
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showth...ighlight=Sanyo

I have fired away a mail to Elfa asking them where they buy their caps...

I did look at that thread. I'm not sure about those.

What Sanyo sent me was specifically about the WG series which according to them doesn't use anything other than a 'K' vent ever.
They didn't elaborate on other Series' vents.

Note that WG series doesn't have any caps larger than 10mm so the idea that caps over 10mm sometimes use the barbed wire vent might have merit.
I dunno. I didn't ask them that. They only told me about what I sent in.

The samples I sent were WG 2200uF 16v [fake] and WG 1000uF 6.3v [legit] that came from the same source. [BTW: It's not the one I mentioned a few posts ago.]

They sent the letter for me to send to eBay, Paypal, and IC3 in a PDF file via attachement to an email.
They scanned the letter to make the PDF so in the end it's a photo of a letter with photos in it. I dunno how to edit an image in a PDF so I can't remove my or my contact's info. My contact was an Engineer for Sanyo-USA and I don't think he want's his email or address floating around the web anymore than I do.
I tried screen shots and black-out bloches once but the screen shots being effectively snap-shots of a snap-shot of snap-shots it came out too cruddy to see anthing.
.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: A Look at Caps for Indonesia Market

So basically you are saying we should never do a recap because no matter who you are buying from you might be getting a fake...ok then.

You need work on your sarcasm too.
Keep trying, you'll get it eventually.