Question about 85c caps vs. 105c caps

[Wester547]

Re: Question about 85c caps vs. 105c caps

But I would imagine that the HN/HM issue would take a couple of years (of notable running time) or so to surface, and that the Taiwan aluminum problem might take a bit longer (though again, as you said, it's probably about how many power on hours and heat the system has been subjected to)?

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Question about 85c caps vs. 105c caps

Yes the P50/51 fail that quick.
That's why I said earlier that you aren't likely to see any, at least that aren't bloated.

The HN/HM issue isn't related and isn't that fast. [Just happened at about the same time..]
Sometimes you'll still see HN/HM from 2003-ish that haven't failed yet.
Those are usually in well cooled cases with low hours on the system.
Vast quantities failed in the Dell clam shell case systems at a year or two old.
Those mini systems don't cool very well.
.

[Wester547]

Re: Question about 85c caps vs. 105c caps

If P50/51 fail that quickly, do they possibly fail quicker than Nichicon's shoddy run of HN/HM capacitors in the early 2000's, or is it again all relative of usage and heat?

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Question about 85c caps vs. 105c caps

Thanks for the info.

Do you know if KZG capacitors die any quicker or slower than capacitors with P50/51 electrolyte or Chinese/Taiwan aluminum, or is all this way too dependent upon usage and heat levels to give an answer?

KZG are slower and it also seems to be heat dependent.
KZG near the chipset, a MOSFET or the CPU seem to go first.
.
A lot of brands got accused of having P50/51 when the real problem was probably low quality Aluminum.
Caps that actually had P50/51 often failed in 3 to 6 months if the system was run 24/7.
.
KZG isn't the only UCC series with that problem.
KZG, KZJ, TMV, TMZ, (and another TM_) all behave the same way and presumably use the same or a very similar electrolyte.
The TMx caps were special order and only sold direct to manufactures.
Asus used a lot of them (meaning TMx) and AOpen at least a few.
.

[Wester547]

Re: Question about 85c caps vs. 105c caps

Thanks for the info.

Do you know if KZG capacitors die any quicker or slower than capacitors with P50/51 electrolyte or Chinese/Taiwan aluminum, or is all this way too dependent upon usage and heat levels to give an answer?

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Question about 85c caps vs. 105c caps

Do you know if Hitano caps are made with Taiwan/Chinese aluminum foil (which might expound upon why some are noting that they don't last too long)?

There's no way to find out short of asking them and even then how do you know they tell the truth?
[In general] Jap companies are king at QA. . CH & TW companies are king at pinching pennies.
Very unlikely they pay the cost to import the better Al from Japan, the US or the UK.

Also, there are two Nichicon VR(M)s on the board rated at 85C, and they sit next to the RAM modules so I imagine that they could be a candidate for issue.

All VR are 85C and any of them could have the problem.
There are MOSFETs all over a board and MOSFETs get hot.
So do chipsets..
So do video cards..
So do MOSFETs on other add-in cards.
.
I'm not about to Guess which ones might be the culprit on some setup I haven't even seen.
I don't even do that for VR if it's right in front of me.
Unexplained problem + VR = Replace the VR.
Small caps are cheap. Replacing them one at a time is a huge waste of time.
.
Replacements for VR don't cost much at all so if you are going to do any then just do all of them and be done with that problem.
Guessing (Easter Egging) just sets you up to order caps twice or more.
The shipping will probably be more than the cost of -those- caps to do the whole board plus it would add a week or two to the project.
.

[Wester547]

Re: Question about 85c caps vs. 105c caps

Do you know if Hitano caps are made with Taiwan/Chinese aluminum foil (which might expound upon why some are noting that they don't last too long)? Also, there are two Nichicon VR(M)s on the board rated at 85C, and they sit next to the RAM modules so I imagine that they could be a candidate for issue.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Question about 85c caps vs. 105c caps

Hitano are mediocre.
I've personally never had trouble with them but other people have.
[For a while I mistakenly thought they were Japanese because of the name, then I saw some complaints and looked them up.]
Better to use Jap caps.

The CMOS battery has nothing to do with spontaneous start-ups from standby. (aka 'Soft-Off')
It simply won't cause that because in Standby the battery is not the CMOS's power source.


Is uncommon but bad small caps can cause spontaneous start-ups and kill a CMOS battery.
[Although I think your battery is just old and used up. - A coincidence...].
.

[Wester547]

Re: Question about 85c caps vs. 105c caps

Well, I read they were Hitano capacitors (from Taiwan?), but I suppose those would be the ones. I think they're 470uf, and may look turquoise/gray.

[mariushm]

Re: Question about 85c caps vs. 105c caps

You mean http://www.hitano.com.tw/home.html ?

[Wester547]

Re: Question about 85c caps vs. 105c caps

Well, I'm gonna try replacing the CMOS battery first, but thanks for the advice. I was also wondering... if anyone had any info about Hitano caps? I was wondering, knowing they're not too common a brand (but I haven't heard good things about them), if there's an inherent defect in their capacitors since I've heard of older Toshiba laptops going down with them and one of the laptops I have is a Toshiba M55-S3293 (I read on these forums that an M60 and M65 died with those capacitors).

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Question about 85c caps vs. 105c caps

In that case I recommend you replace the VR and see if it helps.
.

[Wester547]

Re: Question about 85c caps vs. 105c caps

I am new to a deal of it, which is why I came here. I find this place a great reservoir of knowledge. And I do already have other systems I can use, I was just curious, as stated. ^^;

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Question about 85c caps vs. 105c caps

It's pretty clear you are new to all this stuff.
.
I recommend you get a new system [maybe a refurb Dell Core2Duo but not a mini-case] for your important stuff and then use this one to learn on.
.

[Wester547]

Re: Question about 85c caps vs. 105c caps

I didn't say that, I just wanted to be sure that I don't damage anything inadvertently. Thanks for the info.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Question about 85c caps vs. 105c caps

You don't know how to solder do you....
.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Question about 85c caps vs. 105c caps

Would it be safe for the computer to automatically power on after the switch in the back is on?

Yes.
That's why it's a setting in the BIOS.

[Wester547]

Re: Question about 85c caps vs. 105c caps

Would it be safe for the computer to automatically power on after the switch in the back is on?

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Question about 85c caps vs. 105c caps

The system is always shut down before I turn the switch in the back off. Would that be safe?

Yes.
That's the proper way.

[Wester547]

Re: Question about 85c caps vs. 105c caps

The system is always shut down before I turn the switch in the back off. Would that be safe?