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Old 11-07-2009, 01:26 PM   #1
Bishop
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Default Swap a 1000uf 10V for a 1500uf 16V

I have a 19 LCD HDTV / PC monitor with at last one bad cap.

On the bad cap it says..

Capxon, 1000uf, 10V, Lz, P727, Vent

It's a large Cap.

I have several Panasonic 1000uf 16V and several Sanyo 1500uf 16V.

Can I use either or should I wait till next week to find a 1000uf 10V.

What does LZ, vent and p727 mean? anyway


Thanks
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Old 11-07-2009, 01:42 PM   #2
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Default Re: Swap a 1000uf 10V for a 1500uf 16V

Either the Panasonic or the Sanyo will probably be ok. Post back here with the series of each one, and wait for somebody to confirm.

About the CapXon - LZ is the series. Different series have different ESR properties, ESL properties, temperature ratings and characteristics, endurances, etc. The Vent simply means that it has a vent stamped into the top (the 'X' pattern). The p727 is a date code. I'm not sure what the p means (somebody else might know), but the rest means that the cap was manufactured in week 27 of 2007.

If you seen any other capxons, you should replace them too, chances are they'll fail shortly. Good luck!
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Old 11-07-2009, 01:48 PM   #3
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Default Re: Swap a 1000uf 10V for a 1500uf 16V

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
I have a 19 LCD HDTV / PC monitor with at last one bad cap.

On the bad cap it says..

Capxon, 1000uf, 10V, Lz, P727, Vent

It's a large Cap.

I have several Panasonic 1000uf 16V and several Sanyo 1500uf 16V.

Can I use either or should I wait till next week to find a 1000uf 10V.

What does LZ, vent and p727 mean? anyway


Thanks
CapXon is the manufacturer; 1000F 10V are obviously the capacitance and voltage ratings. LZ is the series - it's an ultra low impedance 105C capacitor. Vent refers to the pressure relief mechanism - the X or K or ??? pattern on the top of the cap. P727 is a production code - probably manufacturing plant, week, and year it was made.

The Panasonic MIGHT work; what are the numbers on it? Panasonic FC or FM series would be best for this application; I'd use either of those provided the size wasn't a problem. If the Panasonic is some other series, it may work for a short time.

PlainBill
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Old 11-07-2009, 02:56 PM   #4
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Default Re: Swap a 1000uf 10V for a 1500uf 16V

The panasonic is 1000uf 16v +105c FM also says 6NIEL

The Sanyo is 1500uf 16v 105c, N.E.79, WG

THe bad cap is 1000uf 10v capxon 105c

Which should I use on the main board of the HDTV/PC LCD? Panasonic?

I only see 1 bad cap.

Thanks so much
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Old 11-07-2009, 03:53 PM   #5
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Default Re: Swap a 1000uf 10V for a 1500uf 16V

ESR / Ripple

1000uf 10v Capxon LZ Series 8x16mm : 0.029 / 1450
1000uf 10v Capxon LZ Series 10x12.5mm : 0.027 / 1500

And the winner is -> 1000uf 16v Panasonic FM 10x16mm : 0.026 / 1790
-
Slightly better ESR and better ripple without changing the uF.
.
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Old 11-07-2009, 03:55 PM   #6
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Default Re: Swap a 1000uf 10V for a 1500uf 16V

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
The panasonic is 1000uf 16v +105c FM also says 6NIEL

The Sanyo is 1500uf 16v 105c, N.E.79, WG

THe bad cap is 1000uf 10v capxon 105c

Which should I use on the main board of the HDTV/PC LCD? Panasonic?

I only see 1 bad cap.

Thanks so much
If there is room for it, I'd use the Panasonic. The higher voltage rating isn't going to cause problems. However, while I had it open, I'd write down the capacity, voltage, and size of every other cap in the power supply. Then I'd order replacements all of them. With CapXon caps it's not a question of IF they will fail, it's 'How soon will they fail?'

PlainBill
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Old 11-07-2009, 04:01 PM   #7
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Default Re: Swap a 1000uf 10V for a 1500uf 16V

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
Which should I use on the main board of the HDTV/PC LCD? Panasonic?

I only see 1 bad cap.

Thanks so much
You need to look up the old ones to know what to use.
For replacements:
- ESR should be the same or lower.
- Ripple should be the same or higher.
- Voltage should be the same or higher. [Without getting ridiculous.]
- Don't wanna change uF unless you have to.
- Also make sure it will physically fit both diameter and height.
.
Replace all of the same brand as the bad one.
If it's on it's last leg the others aren't far behind.
.
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Old 11-07-2009, 04:03 PM   #8
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Default Re: Swap a 1000uf 10V for a 1500uf 16V

http://www.capxongroup.com/en/index.aspx
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Old 11-07-2009, 08:09 PM   #9
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Default Re: Swap a 1000uf 10V for a 1500uf 16V

I can't change a 470uf cap with a 680uf?

I have a TV with a 200v 470uf and I have a 200v 680uf nichicon to replace it with.
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Old 11-07-2009, 08:29 PM   #10
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Default Re: Swap a 1000uf 10V for a 1500uf 16V

Quote:
Originally Posted by mockingbird
I can't change a 470uf cap with a 680uf?

I have a TV with a 200v 470uf and I have a 200v 680uf nichicon to replace it with.
Maybe, maybe not. It's not impossible that when a circuit was designed the engineer just took whatever value of components they had on hand and used them. But it is far more likely they actually calculated what values would be most effective for the particular application.

Any number of problems are possible: For example, a 680 F capacitor would have a much higher start-up current. If several supplies are coming up at the same time the increased capacitance will upset the timing. If the capacitor is part of a pi filter the filter characteristics will be changed.

A general rule of thumb - don't change capacitor values unless you know exactly what you are doing.

PlainBill
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Old 11-07-2009, 08:52 PM   #11
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Default Re: Swap a 1000uf 10V for a 1500uf 16V

I agree.
It's maybe or maybe not. - Depends on what the circuit does.
-
If you don't want to draw out the circuit and do the math then it's best to leave uF alone.
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Old 11-07-2009, 08:57 PM   #12
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Default Re: Swap a 1000uf 10V for a 1500uf 16V

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCBONEZ
I agree.
It's maybe or maybe not. - Depends on what the circuit does.
-
If you don't want to draw out the circuit and do the math then it's best to leave uF alone.
And remember an old saying I just made up - 'A well stocked parts bin is a technician's best friend.'

PlainBill
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Old 11-07-2009, 09:10 PM   #13
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Default Re: Swap a 1000uf 10V for a 1500uf 16V

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlainBill
Maybe, maybe not. It's not impossible that when a circuit was designed the engineer just took whatever value of components they had on hand and used them. But it is far more likely they actually calculated what values would be most effective for the particular application.

Any number of problems are possible: For example, a 680 F capacitor would have a much higher start-up current. If several supplies are coming up at the same time the increased capacitance will upset the timing. If the capacitor is part of a pi filter the filter characteristics will be changed.

A general rule of thumb - don't change capacitor values unless you know exactly what you are doing.

PlainBill
Thanks guys. What's funny is that the white circle on the PCB is the size of the 680uF cap and not the old 470uF cap so initially I was afraid that the much fatter 680uF cap would not fit but it fits perfectly which leads me to believe that the PCB was designed for the 680uF cap but the MFG skimped.

Only time will tell. I'll be sure to order another 470uF cap in case it doesn't work.
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Old 11-07-2009, 10:25 PM   #14
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Default Re: Swap a 1000uf 10V for a 1500uf 16V

The size of the silk screen doesn't mean anything.
Caps come in more than one physical size for the given uF.
For example in my normal assortment I have 470uF in 6.3mm, 8mm, and 10mm.
In other voltages they go all the way up to 25mm. [That I know of.]
~
Over sized silk screens is not unusual.
Gives them more options when it comes to assembling the PCB.
There are even PCB's that are double drilled to accept either of two different lead spacings.
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Old 04-21-2011, 09:08 PM   #15
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Default Re: Swap a 1000uf 10V for a 1500uf 16V

Bishop,

Lemme guess: Your HDTV is a Philips/Magnavox 19MF337B/27.

Somebody just gave me one that was broken. I opened it and found three bulged capXon caps that are exactly as the one you describe.

Waiting for replacements from Digi-Key:
Panasonic EEU-FR1C102
CAP ELECT 1000UF 16V FR RADIAL
P14398-ND

See also:

http://www.fixya.com/support/t336563...cd_tv_problems

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l2...37B_27Caps.jpg
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Old 04-22-2011, 01:51 AM   #16
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Default Re: Swap a 1000uf 10V for a 1500uf 16V

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCBONEZ View Post
You need to look up the old ones to know what to use.
For replacements:
- ESR should be the same or lower.
- Ripple should be the same or higher.
- Voltage should be the same or higher. [Without getting ridiculous.]
- Don't wanna change uF unless you have to.
- Also make sure it will physically fit both diameter and height.
.
Replace all of the same brand as the bad one.
If it's on it's last leg the others aren't far behind.
.
The aluminum caps I see in the Digi-Key catalog do not show any ESR rating.

Ripple should be the same or higher?

Please recheck your post.
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Old 04-22-2011, 03:35 AM   #17
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Default Re: Swap a 1000uf 10V for a 1500uf 16V

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkrepair View Post
The aluminum caps I see in the Digi-Key catalog do not show any ESR rating.
You have to read the data sheets.
See pics. That should explain it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkrepair View Post
Ripple should be the same or higher?
Yes, Correct.
Ripple is a -Max Limit-.
Nothing wrong with a higher limit in a replacement part.
Using a part with a lower limit than original could be REAL bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkrepair View Post
Please recheck your post.
It is correct.

And before you ask...
At 100kHz the ESR = Impedance
[Or at least it's so close we just say it does.]
.
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Old 04-22-2011, 07:43 PM   #18
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Default Re: Swap a 1000uf 10V for a 1500uf 16V

If the 470uf or 680uf are used as the main filter cap ( the one that is referenced to hot ground) they can be interchanged, The higher value cap will give you slightly less raw b+
A lot of the oem filter caps had a 20% tolerance.
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Old 04-22-2011, 08:01 PM   #19
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Default Re: Swap a 1000uf 10V for a 1500uf 16V

Thanks for your reply, PCBONEZ.

>Yes, Correct.
>Ripple is a -Max Limit-.
>Nothing wrong with a higher limit in a replacement part.
>Using a part with a lower limit than original could be REAL bad.

So it seems to be the max that the device can tolerate before probable failure. Maybe taken together with the impedance, it is roughly equivalent to how much power the device can dissipate?

>And before you ask...
>At 100kHz the ESR = Impedance
>[Or at least it's so close we just say it does.]

Okay, since my previous post I guessed that that might be so.

BTW, I installed the new Panasonic caps, and the 19MF337B HDTV is working! Using it as a PC monitor as I write this.

Please remark on my choice of replacements, detailed elsewhere on this thread, if you would.

Thanks again.

Kurt
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Old 04-22-2011, 08:29 PM   #20
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Default Re: Swap a 1000uf 10V for a 1500uf 16V

The Ripple rating is basically how much Ripple Current the cap can handle without overheating.
If it were a resistor it would be a watt rating.
If a wire it would be the amps rating.
-
All are the same basic idea.
.
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