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**PM650** · 01-02-2009, 03:00 AM

Re: LP NF2 Ultra B CAP PICS

Teapo are usually OK in a psu (low frequency ripple), but they will eventually vent if they're on a mobo. I just did an Abit KR7A a month ago, full of teapo, several were venting, but not horribly (board in use since ~2001).

Those gold/black caps look like Ost on the mobo, I just replaced all of the Ost's on my Asus A7N8X Deluxe (same age NF2 mobo as the DFI) and it cured some stability problems, even though they weren't used for the VRM and none were vented.

The light-brown caps in the first few pics with the 'Y' vent are Nippon Chemi-Con KZG series, a very good brand. However, they have issues with heat and can sometimes go bad. These are probably OK if they're on the input side of the VRM (16v rated). Looks like there are also some light-brown Teapo in there too.

The bent cap may be an issue, try and see if one of the leads has been pulled out of the cap or if its just a sloppy solder job.

The evercons are potentially the worst of the offenders you have (brandwise).

What does PAP mean?

**gustie** · 01-02-2009, 04:30 AM

Re: LP NF2 Ultra B CAP PICS

Originally posted by PM650

Teapo are usually OK in a psu (low frequency ripple), but they will eventually vent if they're on a mobo. I just did an Abit KR7A a month ago, full of teapo, several were venting, but not horribly (board in use since ~2001).

Those gold/black caps look like Ost on the mobo, I just replaced all of the Ost's on my Asus A7N8X Deluxe (same age NF2 mobo as the DFI) and it cured some stability problems, even though they weren't used for the VRM and none were vented.

The light-brown caps in the first few pics with the 'Y' vent are Nippon Chemi-Con KZG series, a very good brand. However, they have issues with heat and can sometimes go bad. These are probably OK if they're on the input side of the VRM (16v rated). Looks like there are also some light-brown Teapo in there too.

The bent cap may be an issue, try and see if one of the leads has been pulled out of the cap or if its just a sloppy solder job.

The evercons are potentially the worst of the offenders you have (brandwise).

What does PAP mean?

PAP means SHIT lol

so... a mixed branding of caps on ONE board??

TEAPO
OST
NIPPON CHEMI-CON KZG

i didnt expect that....

i guess if i was to re-cap i would be best in using ONE brand across the whole board???

**PM650** · 01-02-2009, 04:55 AM

Re: LP NF2 Ultra B CAP PICS

Yes mixed branding is quite frequent. My Asus A8N-SLI premium has rubycon, chemi-con and panasonic scattered over it. An MSI radeon 9800pro I have also has rubycon, chemi-con, panasonic and fujitsu on it...

Replacements are up to you, they don't have to be the same brand, but I just use all rubycon since its easiest/cheaper for me. It is a good idea to use the same brand/series in a group of capacitors, like the VRM for vid card or mobo.

**PCBONEZ** · 01-02-2009, 05:08 AM

Re: LP NF2 Ultra B CAP PICS

Evercon = Sacon = GSC
Same company, keeps changing name because of bad reputation.

**gustie** · 01-02-2009, 05:31 AM

Re: LP NF2 Ultra B CAP PICS

evercon on my graphics not too good then!

i have a prolink card..

**PCBONEZ** · 01-02-2009, 07:06 AM

Re: LP NF2 Ultra B CAP PICS

There are many different grades of caps even within the range called low ESR.
The minimum grade you need depends on what the caps are doing and the class of motherboard. (For instance P3 doesn't usually NEED as high a grade as P4 in the VRM and Vcore.)

Vcore caps are highest grade on the board.
Caps out by PCI slots (regardless of the class of board) are usually a lower grade of low ESR than used in VRMs.

-
Often manufacturers will upgrade caps with lesser requirements beyond the minimum because sometimes that's less expensive than buying and stocking two grades.
- Also 2 lower grade caps may = one better grade cap, so using better grades can mean using less caps. [I'll call that "fail up".]

The following is a generalization. There will always be exceptions.
~~~~~~~

VRM (CPU voltage regulator) has high side and low side.

VRM low side is called Vcore because they are on the Core voltage to the CPU.
These will be the lower voltage caps right near CPU.
[Highest Grade here.]
P4 and [comparable AMD] usually have very high grades here.
P3 with few caps may have higher grade here.
P3 with many caps may have lower grade here.
AMD of P3 age (Like Original Athlon) tend to have loads of middle grade caps.
Athlon had the lowest Core voltage at the time and PSU's weren't quite so good yet.
[In Rubycon terms Vcore would be MCZ or MBZ. Maybe down to ZL on a P3 class with many caps. Less than ZL was common on P2 and earlier boards.]

High side of VRM is between VRM and power supply electrically.
[Can be lesser grade than Vcore but these are OFTEN failed up to better.]
On P3, early AMD can be 16v but usually less. (10v or 6.3v)
P4 [and similar AMD] are always 16v here because CPU power went to 12 volts.
In Rubycon these will be at least ZL and maybe (often) failed up to MBZ equivelent.

Caps for RAM, AGP/Video, and Chipset regulators may be the same grade as VRM 'high side' but usually a bit less. These are often ~MBZ with single caps or ~ZL with 2 or 3 caps.

General (8 or 10 mm) caps scattered around the board can be a little less that ZL grade but often are ZL grade. Not unusual to see these 'failed up' to MBZ on higher end motherboards or boards with few caps used.

The small (under 330uF) and smaller size (usually 5 or 6 mm) caps with unusually high voltages (16v to 35v) are used on things like USB, sound, PS/2 to keep RF Noise [EMI] from entering the board via external wires. These can be the lowest grade of caps that can still be called low ESR. Some boards even use GP (General Purpose) caps here.

ESR changes with can size not uF or volts.
These specs are based on 8x20mm and 10x20mm caps for comparison.
Make/Series - Ripple/ESR(8x20) - Ripple/ESR(8x20)
Rubycon/MCZ - 2350/.012 - 2770/.011
Panasonic FJ - 1870/.016 - 2550/.013
Rubycon/MBZ - 1870/.019 - 2550/.013 (Sanyo WG is the same)
*Chemicon KZG - 1870/.021 - 2550/.013
Rubycon/ZLG - 1600/.020 - 2180/.014
Panasonic FM - 1560/.030 - 2180/.019
Rubycon/ZLH - 1500/.029 - 1960/.020
Rubycon/ZL - 1250/.041 - 1820/.023
[ZL is the same as: Chemicon KZE, Nichicon HD, Sanyo WX, Samxon GK]
Nichicon PA - 1220/.044 - 1490/.035
Chemicon KY, Nichicon HE, Rubycon YXG/YXH - 1050/.069 - 1400/.046
Panasonic FC, Nichicon PW - 995/.065 - 1220/.052
Chemicon LXZ - 810/.080 - 1220/.052

Your KZG are mentioned above.
Evercon RE series is rated around Panasonic FC (or a little less).
[Evercon RE is actually the old [and very BAD] GSC RE Series brought back to life.]
I can't see any other Series markings in the photos and you haven't said.

.
GCS-Evercon-Sacon is behind the biggest current problem with video cards.
For 3 or 4 ?? years they've been making this new FZ Series that absolutely SUX.
To make matters worse the FZ's look like Solid Polymer but they aren't.
Gives customer that don't look close a warm fuzzy, and then the caps (literally) blow their guts out the top of the can.

.

**gustie** · 01-03-2009, 10:41 AM

Re: LP NF2 Ultra B CAP PICS

ok cheers

i think ill wait till i see bulgers

seems a bit complicated for my mind at the mo lol

**PCBONEZ** · 01-03-2009, 04:42 PM

Re: LP NF2 Ultra B CAP PICS

It gets easier after you've done a few.

**gustie** · 01-03-2009, 05:30 PM

Re: LP NF2 Ultra B CAP PICS

im scared of putting the wrong cap on or worse melting the board with the soldering iron!

i guess i could try on some old PCI cards i got lying about first...

**PCBONEZ** · 01-03-2009, 05:47 PM

Re: LP NF2 Ultra B CAP PICS

Tip:
BEFORE removing caps make a map of the project and put all the caps you will remove on the map. In addition to the series/uF/volts (of the old caps) make SURE you mark each one on the map as to which side is negative.
Negative is the side with the 'stripe' down it.

**PCBONEZ** · 01-03-2009, 05:48 PM

Re: LP NF2 Ultra B CAP PICS

~~ And remove the CMOS battery while you are working on it.

**Computergeek1200** · 02-01-2009, 12:55 AM

Re: LP NF2 Ultra B CAP PICS

the kzg caps on your board are fake. Replace them!

**gustie** · 02-01-2009, 10:29 AM

Re: LP NF2 Ultra B CAP PICS

REALLY?!?

how can you tell? i have not a clue!

cheers

if they are is it worth emailing DFI?

**KeriJane** · 02-01-2009, 06:15 PM

Re: LP NF2 Ultra B CAP PICS

Wow!

Thank you to PCBONES for that post on motherboards and caps.

I'll try to put it to good use.

Have Fun,
Keri

**kc8adu** · 02-02-2009, 03:09 AM

Re: LP NF2 Ultra B CAP PICS

Originally posted by Computergeek1200

the kzg caps on your board are fake. Replace them!

i doubt the kzg's are fake.
they dont last in hot area's and can die o/c without bulging though.

**gustie** · 02-02-2009, 03:56 AM

Re: LP NF2 Ultra B CAP PICS

hmm...

one of those KZG's... just found white residue on the top - dried up stuff... no bulging so it could have leaked without venting? would the leakage leave white residue? all the other badcaps ive seen have left brown residue

**PCBONEZ** · 02-02-2009, 04:14 AM

Re: LP NF2 Ultra B CAP PICS

Yes the seam of the vent can split and let stuff out without the metal distorting.
Not real common but it happens.

**PCBONEZ** · 02-02-2009, 04:15 AM

Re: LP NF2 Ultra B CAP PICS

Have seen a recent post with fake KZG but the ones in your pic here look legit.

.

**gustie** · 02-02-2009, 05:34 AM

Re: LP NF2 Ultra B CAP PICS

KZG... are they decent caps then?

the one i checked with the white residue shows no sign of venting, but can the electrolyte leak from around the edge of the round vent part on the top of the cap?

thanks

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