APC UPS units - troubleshooting

[axlmastr]

Anyone dealt with repairing these units? I have models 300-1400VA and would like to know if some of the models have inherent problems that show up after a few years. As you know APC is in the business to sell units not assist owners/customers in troubleshooting their units except to send it in for repair or refurb. Thought I might post to see if any of the veterans knew enough about these to offer some troubleshooting advice. These seem pretty straight forward in design, just not sure where to look for the faults. Might be a good section to add to the forum since it is a large part of a system these days. Some of these aren't that disposable for the $$. Thought since we got into PSUs so heavily why not take a look at the next step in the supply chain. How 'bout it Willa? Not sure what section to post this so move if necessary. Thanks

[willawake]

its ok better to keep the thread here.

here's some troubleshooting info
http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1611

i havent had any APC units fail though, whats the issue with your units?

[Per Hansson]

Right today I've been fixing up an APC UPS, it will get it's own thread started because it was allot of work...

Anyway, the issue was simple; it had shorted batteries and was trying to power on in a loop, not very good design security wise because it was shutting AC on and off to the connected equipment...

Anyway this I think is the most common failure of a UPS... Elfa carries all the battery models that you need for a UPS, at more than half the price that APC wants for em...

One thing to remember; the UPS microprocessor will "learn" that the batteries are poor, so when you swap new ones in it might not work, what you do is give the UPS a load of atleast 30% and then create a brownout by cutting AC power (the UPS should still be grounded though!) it will run till the batteries are totally discharged and thereby will learn how good or bad they are... To clarify; the UPS management software should be disabled, a good way to do it is to have your computer idle in the BIOS or something...

[Galvanized]

Originally Posted by Per Hansson

One thing to remember; the UPS microprocessor will "learn" that the batteries are poor, so when you swap new ones in it might not work, what you do is give the UPS a load of atleast 30% and then create a brownout by cutting AC power (the UPS should still be grounded though!) it will run till the batteries are totally discharged and thereby will learn how good or bad they are... To clarify; the UPS management software should be disabled, a good way to do it is to have your computer idle in the BIOS or something...

Interesting. On a lark and to contribute to a thread, I tested a new 1500 Belkin after it charged for 24hours by loading it with a 500W halogen lamp. It supported it for 5.5 minuets. Some further testing was done with lower wattage bulbs to answer questions about flickering. I know that Belkin is a lower end unit but for home it seems to be OK.

The 1200 Belkin that got new batteries was tested the same way and went 4.25 minuets. Both units were shut down via the circuit breaker, not unplugged, so the ground circuit was maintained. Very good point to remember.

[Per Hansson]

This battery issue is the same with any device with "intelligent" batteries, like Laptops for example... Some have a calibration tool in the BIOS that does exactly what I described above...

[willawake]

uuuuh.....crap
troubleshoot this then........first set of batteries CSB brand (made in guangzhou) with APC stickers. About 3 years of 24/7 service. The battery drawer is at the front of the unit and the batteries cannot exit because they have all expanded. OK but there is no provision for this situation, the battery compartment is folded steel and riveted.

Only way i see is to bend those folded edges up

[willawake]

yeah this is where computing meets engineering

[willawake]

and we hope it fits in the rack again.....

[Maxxarcade]

Daaaaaammmmnnnn, those batteries are toasted I had a Panasonic battery for a Smart-UPS 600 that looked bad , but not that bad!

How good are the Powersonic batteries? I have a stack of UPS units to rebuild. The only ones I really bother with anymore are APC, unless I find a really big one >2500VA.

Originally Posted by willawake

uuuuh.....crap
troubleshoot this then........first set of batteries CSI brand with APC stickers. About 3 years of 24/7 service. The battery drawer is at the front of the unit and the batteries cannot exit because they have all expanded. OK but there is no provision for this situation, the battery compartment is folded steel and riveted.

Only way i see is to bend those folded edges up

[Per Hansson]

Wow Willa, that's some bad failure!

I don't ever think I made a thread about that APC I was talking about above but one of it's batteries where also in pretty bad shape, not like that tho...

Intelligent UPS my ass

[willawake]

How good are the Powersonic batteries?

they do similar failures but there is not much choice here. I have come to the conclusion that everything is crap nowadays anyway.

Intelligent UPS my ass

mine too. yesterday there was a smell in the server room which i could not locate (i think we know what that was now) and only today the battery alarm was sounding.......the casing was very hot. how about a case temperature sensor APC?????

[Maxxarcade]

But as stupid as it is to not have some safety features, I think I'd still take an APC over another type of UPS. Usually the batteries are all that I ever need to replace in them.

[willawake]

I had a Panasonic battery for a Smart-UPS 600 that looked bad

some powersonic i replaced in another smart-ups
http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2752

[Maxxarcade]

I think Yausa is pretty good also, but didn't they get bought out?

[willawake]

i saw some new batteries in the shop (smaller ones) which looked like the fujistu logo but said fuji(something) cant seem to locate it on the internet on the fujitsu site. i wouldnt be surprised if they were fujitsu cos they have some fujitsu flashlights in the shop, perfect for the ships. I would like to try some fujitsu batteries.

[Rainbow]

Batteries shouldn't fail like this.
I have an APC SmartUPS v/s 650 where the battery failed three times this way. Now it's on the shelf as I suspect that it overcharges the battery.
I changed dead batteries in old (maybe 1994) BackUPS 600 (non-user-replaceable batteries - I had to completely disassemble it) at work. The batteries (two 6V in series) had no bulging at all, just increased internal resistance - I think this is the way they should fail because of age.

[willawake]

have an APC SmartUPS v/s 650 where the battery failed three times this way

now its getting interesting. who else has a smartups where the batteries failed this way.

personally i have only seen bulging in smartups.

in other ups have seen failed batteries which were hot but with no bulging and one time i saw one powersonic leaking from a terminal. but otherwise just batteries not holding a charge and no other signs.

[Per Hansson]

willa; in the thread you linked above

One of the batteries had cracked open, nothing bad though. The UPS was still running fine, just 0 seconds runtime of course...

This was the Italan Riello 6kW UPS...

[willawake]

willa; in the thread you linked above

One of the batteries had cracked open, nothing bad though. The UPS was still running fine, just 0 seconds runtime of course...

This was the Italan Riello 6kW UPS...

lower down in the thread i posted a cracked battery from a smart-ups.

I checked the other UPS today, same model and the batteries are showing some bulging, not as bad as the first though. i will replace those tomorrow as well.

heres a pic of the batts before i dispose of them in a (cough) environmental way.

[willawake]

here is one of the emergency power rooms on a cruise ship. (ships have UPS also) They also had a brand new emergency generator which at 2000 rpm was fucking loud.