Faulty formula theory must be wrong?

[timjand]

I know the yarn about the faulty stolen formula. However I've just had an Epox EPEA+ fail with bad caps - it was purchased in March this year. The bad caps are GSC; they are not the largest on the board, but all seem to be 1000 uf and 6.3v. Surely if this problem is still occuring 3 years after the main problem in 2002, it must be more than one faulty formula.

Disappointed with Epox because of this; won't buy again. It should know enough about this problem by now.

Tim

[cods69]

Re: Faulty formula theory must be wrong?

At a guess, there would be huge inventories of these bad caps in various warehouses, which would appear for sale at a bargain price, from time to time.

[Rainbow]

Re: Faulty formula theory must be wrong?

GSC is crap company that was found when these crappy caps appeared. Motherboard manufacturers are stupid enough to buy the same crap again and again - e.g. Epox still uses GSC which fail on all boards.

[Per Hansson]

Re: Faulty formula theory must be wrong?

Yes, cods69 is probably correct, check the date of the caps... They might very well be a couple years old even if the board is new... Btw, can you please recheck the model name? EPEA+ does not seem to exist?

And can you also please post some pictures?

Lastly, GSC is 100% crap, even if they have been created this year they will fail if run in harsh environments (like on a hot mainboard for example)

[MD Willington]

Re: Faulty formula theory must be wrong?

At a guess, there would be huge inventories of these bad caps in various warehouses, which would appear for sale at a bargain price, from time to time.

More than a guess, they produce them by the millions... As an engineer said to me, "They are like Jelly beans"... ie billions produced to this date...

Just because the year changes, doesn't mean they can't use product from last year..

MD

[AK0R]

Re: Faulty formula theory must be wrong?

In this post, he calls it a 4PEA (which gets several hits in search): https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1215

[timjand]

Re: Faulty formula theory must be wrong?

Btw, can you please recheck the model name? EPEA+ does not seem to exist?

Apologies, it is 4PEA+ (+ means onboard RAID).

And can you also please post some pictures?

Done - see post in Epox secion.

[timjand]

Re: Faulty formula theory must be wrong?

At a guess, there would be huge inventories of these bad caps in various warehouses, which would appear for sale at a bargain price, from time to time.

This still doesn't let Epox off the hook IMO. It must have known about the fault two years on; surely a company with any sort of quality control would ensure that the faulty components were no longer used.

Tim

[timjand]

Re: Faulty formula theory must be wrong?

check the date of the caps

Not sure how to check the date. Aside from the ratings, they are marked T20K or T20F and have the letters RE in a small box. They are also marked with a temperature: 105 C.

Tim

[cods69]

Re: Faulty formula theory must be wrong?

This still doesn't let Epox off the hook IMO.

Agreed.

It must have known about the fault two years on; surely a company with any sort of quality control would ensure that the faulty components were no longer used.

This is where the definition of "faulty" comes into play.
By definition of time (for arguments sake, say 1,000 years), all components will probably be faulty. Some will die within 6 months, some within 3 years, some around 5 years etc.
Within a specific manufacturers specs for the Warranty, they would measure component lifetime (relative to warranty) and reliability, versus costs of say large batches of easy to get components or perhaps small batches of rare expensive components.

Every manufacturer would have a cost/reliability/quality balance they would adhere to. I guess we now know where Epox sits on the scale.

[AK0R]

Re: Faulty formula theory must be wrong?

Not sure how to check the date.

Manufacturers of PC motherboards and component boards have the same trouble. Do you really expect them to dump several thousand dollars worth of inventory that *may* (or may not) be bad, and bring their production lines to a halt, until new product can be received? Lead times are often measured in weeks, and even a day's lost production means several thousand dollars of lost revenue.

Within a specific manufacturers specs for the Warranty, they would measure component lifetime (relative to warranty) and reliability, versus costs of say large batches of easy to get components or perhaps small batches of rare expensive components.

And provided the parts that are in inventory last as long as the warranty after installation, the manufacturer has met his commitment to the customer. They don't care that failure means, at best, lost productivity and at worst, failed motherboard, CPU, memory, expansion cards, and/or power supply. We have two choices, and they both involve our pocketbooks. Pay higher prices for high-quality parts up-front, or pay for high-quality replacement parts and repairs when the original cheap crap fails (and hope that there is little or no collateral damage).