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Old 09-23-2010, 08:29 AM   #1
shovenose
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Default Ordering caps to recap power supplies.

So i need to use low esr, right?
If i buy ost caps, (mostly replacing the fuhjyyu caps in antecs), will they last longer than generic no-nqme caps? If i buy like "Sanyo" caps bu theyre very cheap ($5) will they be fakes?
Basically, im wondering whether its worth buying more medium-cheap caps vs rubycons or samxons or whatever topcat sells here. And im wondering about how long before the cheapo caps start dying? Im hoping to make these othwise decent antec (cwt) spartpower and truepowers, along with two other generics with badcaps last a few years into the future?
Also: how much peeformance difference(when new) between cheap and good caps?
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Old 09-23-2010, 04:55 PM   #2
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Default Re: Ordering caps to recap power supplies.

Yes, low ESR. But not motherboard grade. As for buying OST's, I would be weary of OST's. Teapo I wouldn't be as worried about, but I have seen new OST's fail in 6 months. I have also seen them last years. Too inconsistent, like fuhjyuu.

Now, I would just buy samxons from topcat. Replace them and you don't have to worry about them later on down the road.

http://www.badcaps.net/store/product...products_id=56

Perfect for 12v rails. 10mm size, ESR is very good for power supplies, higher capacitance, etc...

http://www.badcaps.net/store/product...products_id=57

Same story, but for the 5v and 3.3v rail.

http://www.badcaps.net/store/product...products_id=69

Those work good for 5vsb rails.

http://www.badcaps.net/store/product...products_id=31

PX is good for power supplies.
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Old 09-23-2010, 04:59 PM   #3
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Default Re: Ordering caps to recap power supplies.

ok. but i thought antec uses ost in their newer psus?
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Old 09-23-2010, 05:10 PM   #4
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Default Re: Ordering caps to recap power supplies.

Their lower end seasonic builds do. The corsair CX400 uses them too. Key word is "lower end"

Antec seems to slowly be switching over their lineups to delta. Their higher end delta units use anywhere from all japanese to a mix of japanese and taiwanese (Taicon, Ltec, Aishi,) and the lower end delta units use some japanese to no japanese with the above listed brands taiwanese caps.

Last edited by 370forlife; 09-23-2010 at 05:12 PM..
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Old 09-23-2010, 07:51 PM   #5
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Default Re: Ordering caps to recap power supplies.

If I see any PSU with any thing but what is listed below, including OST or cheapo teapo, it get's re-capped, failed or not. I simply don't trust any caps but these:

Rubycon
Panasonic
Sanyo
Nippon Chemi-Con (except KZG and KZJ - both of those series are almost as bad as Fuhjyyu and sacon)
Nichicon (except HM and HN manufactured befor 2006)
Samxon GD, GC, and RS (The others can be problematic)

Btw, If you want sanyo caps, there is one, and only one reliable ebay seller I know of: http://stores.ebay.com.au/PC-MotherB...34Q2ec0Q2em322
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Old 09-23-2010, 08:30 PM   #6
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Default Re: Ordering caps to recap power supplies.

so i would start wih these. ok?
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Old 09-23-2010, 10:40 PM   #7
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Default Re: Ordering caps to recap power supplies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shovenose View Post
ok. but i thought antec uses ost in their newer psus?
They do, and OST are crap.
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Old 09-24-2010, 05:29 AM   #8
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Default Re: Ordering caps to recap power supplies.

Why did you use 3 6.3v GD series and 3 10v RS series. GD aren't suitable for PSUs, the ESR is too low (the same as ruby MBZ). Just use 6 10v RS series. You can use higher voltage caps than the originals.
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Old 09-24-2010, 07:27 AM   #9
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Default Re: Ordering caps to recap power supplies.

Oh damn im confused. So theres such thing s TOO LOW ESR?
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Old 09-24-2010, 08:17 AM   #10
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Default Re: Ordering caps to recap power supplies.

Do you know what a PI filter is?

For Ripple the value of the Inductor and the value of ESR are chosen so the cap passes the most Ripple to ground.

If you change one without changing the other you can 'detune' the filter and less Ripple will be removed.

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Old 09-24-2010, 08:24 AM   #11
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Default Re: Ordering caps to recap power supplies.

Um...pi filter: it filters 3.14% of ripple? I dont know.
Another question: what if i do a partisl recap? Will the new caps not last as long?
And is it ok to elevate the caps slightly if they wwont fit otherwise? Becuz many fuckyou caps are tall and skinny (unusual)???

Jeez. I thought i could just buy low esr caps of the right capacity but no this is way complicated. Let me get back to you guys tomorrow maybe when ill actually have the psu and be able to make an extensive list o all bloated or fuckyou caps...
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Old 09-24-2010, 08:29 AM   #12
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Default Re: Ordering caps to recap power supplies.

http://www.calculatoredge.com/electr...low%20pass.htm
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Old 09-24-2010, 04:17 PM   #13
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Default Re: Ordering caps to recap power supplies.

You can go too low ESR in PSUs, but on motherboards, you can go as low as you like. If you can't find a suitable cap that fits and you have to replace a 10mm cap with a 12.5mm, you can elevate it off the PCB. I've done that lots of times when replacing Fuhjyyu caps. Partial re-caps may or may not shorten the life of the new caps depending on whether there are now mixed new and old caps in the same circuit.
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Old 09-24-2010, 04:26 PM   #14
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Default Re: Ordering caps to recap power supplies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shovenose View Post
ok. but i thought antec uses ost in their newer psus?
Yes, they did, they fail after 2 or 3 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 370forlife View Post
Their lower end seasonic builds do. The corsair CX400 uses them too. Key word is "lower end"

Antec seems to slowly be switching over their lineups to delta. Their higher end delta units use anywhere from all japanese to a mix of japanese and taiwanese (Taicon, Ltec, Aishi,) and the lower end delta units use some japanese to no japanese with the above listed brands taiwanese caps.
I wasn't happy when I first saw these newer PSUs. How do you reckon they'll hold up?
I've not seen a failed Taicon yet, but I have seen Ltec fail in Viewsonic monitors.
I've removed Aishi from other Delta PSUs - thinking it was probably rubbish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by c_hegge View Post
You can go too low ESR in PSUs
I suppose the Panasonic FM I have in my Antec EA-380 PSUs is not a good idea then.

Is there a general range for ESR in a PSU?
I know I could compare with the datasheets of the old caps, but what's to say they old caps are actually up to spec anyway?

I've just re-capped a Delta DPS-300GB with a mix of Panasonic FM, Panasonic FK, Panasonic FR, Nichion HZ, Nichion HM. I'll quite happily take these all out on suggestion of better candidates, just please not Samxon because they're not easy to get here.

Last edited by seanc; 09-24-2010 at 04:31 PM..
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Old 09-24-2010, 05:00 PM   #15
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Default Re: Ordering caps to recap power supplies.

I have some small experience in replacing psu caps..

Usually for the 3.3V, 5V and 12V lines, esr 0.01 to 0.04 is allowed.

I have used Panasonic FM (~0.01 esr @ 2200uF and 3300uF) and Panasonic FK (~0.03 esr @ 2200uF, 2700uF and 3300uF) as replacement caps with success.

The 5Vsb, -12V and -5V caps vary. Some manufacturers use low esr caps (~0.05) but you can also find caps with 0.17 esr as well. So you must find the original cap ratings and try not to go far from them.

I have replaced 2x470uF 0.14 esr caps with 2x1000uF Panasonic FM ~0.02 esr in a psu's 5vsb pi filter once. The psu made a high pitched noise all the time, probably because the 5vsb transformer was working in very low frequency (audible frequency). That was fixed by replacing the FMs with 2x1000uF Rubycon YXF 0.08 esr.

I hope you find the above useful.
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Old 09-24-2010, 05:01 PM   #16
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Default Re: Ordering caps to recap power supplies.

Nichicon HM are too low ESR and HZ are WWAAAAYYY too low. I usually use Panasonic FC and Nichicon HE. They may be somewhat bigger than the oroginal caps, but as I said to shovenose, I oftem mount them slightly off the PCB.
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Old 09-24-2010, 06:08 PM   #17
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Default Re: Ordering caps to recap power supplies.

Right, time to see what Panasonic FC I have in the trays then, perhaps I can stop my 22" Viewsonic whining!

Will save all of these über low ESR caps for something else then I guess.

Someday I'll win, started with caps that were not good enough in my early re-caps, now they're too good!
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Old 09-24-2010, 07:10 PM   #18
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Default Re: Ordering caps to recap power supplies.

Sometimes the really good caps are cheaper than the mediocre ones.

These always work in one way or another

FC, FM

HE, PM, PW

LXY, KZE, KY

Last edited by Quasar; 09-24-2010 at 07:16 PM..
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Old 09-24-2010, 07:12 PM   #19
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Default Re: Ordering caps to recap power supplies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seanc View Post
I wasn't happy when I first saw these newer PSUs. How do you reckon they'll hold up?
I've not seen a failed Taicon yet, but I have seen Ltec fail in Viewsonic monitors.
I've removed Aishi from other Delta PSUs - thinking it was probably rubbish.
Taicon and Ltec are I would say on par with teapo. For me they are not recap on site, but only if they are visually failed or suspected to be failed.

Delta has a very good QC system that keeps their failure rate under 1%. They also seem to always have a solid design. I would say the delta built antec's are higher quality than the seasonic built units.
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Old 09-24-2010, 08:49 PM   #20
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Default Re: Ordering caps to recap power supplies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shovenose View Post
Um...pi filter: it filters 3.14% of ripple? I dont know.
Another question: what if i do a partisl recap? Will the new caps not last as long?
And is it ok to elevate the caps slightly if they wwont fit otherwise? Becuz many fuckyou caps are tall and skinny (unusual)???

Jeez. I thought i could just buy low esr caps of the right capacity but no this is way complicated. Let me get back to you guys tomorrow maybe when ill actually have the psu and be able to make an extensive list o all bloated or fuckyou caps...
The correct way to do it is to look up the data sheet on the old caps and match the ESR & Ripple specs or go slightly better without getting into over-kill. The ESR requirement isn't super tight but I try to keep ESR between +0.00 and -0.01 ohms of the original cap's spec unless there is just no way to do it.

When it comes to the final output filters, usually 2200uF to 4700uF caps, FC often aren't good enough and sometimes FM are over-kill.
~BUT~and~Because~
There are A LOT of different PSU designs and A LOT of different filter designs.
.

.
.
.
The more caps there are the higher the ESR can be on an individual cap.

For the most common [baring gutless wonders] two cap PI filters *I* usually see ESR [-loosely-] between .030 and .035 Ohms for each cap. [That's for the 2200-4700uF final OP caps...]
Usually they are way better than FC and not as good as FM but it varies A LOT.

The three cap type filter might have three of that grade cap -or- it might have one of those on the 1-cap side and two lesser grade [comparable to FC or PW] on the 2-cap side -or- all three caps might be comparable to FC & PW.
- It varies a lot.

There isn't a good answer to 'what should I use' when you haven't looked up the specs for the old caps.
- It simply isn't that consistant from PSU to PSU.

If I can't find data sheets for the 2200uF-4700uF I go for caps with ESR right around .030 based on the assumption the originals are crap and it's doubtful they were any better than that.

.
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