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Old 08-16-2010, 12:12 PM   #1
richr69
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Unhappy Instability issue with recapped SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 v1.0 Black Label

I currently own the SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 v1.0 Black Label motherboard, which has been working since 2004, until recently. The system began to power off by itself. I suspected the 400 watt PSU and purchased a new PSU i.e. ULTRA 600 watt PSU. I connected the new PSU and after a couple of power cycles I heard a pop and a burned smell in the PC case.

I looked at the motherboard and the 2200uf capacitor appeared to be bad. All the capacitors were SACON.

I replaced the following SACON with Rubycon capacitors.

7 - 2200uF 6.3v
7 - 1500uF 16v
15 - 1000uF 10v
7 - 470uF 16v

After checking my solder joints I powered up the system, with CPU, memory, video card, keyboard/mouse. After resetting the CMOS, I successfully was able to get into the BIOS.

I was monitored the PC Health Status, and the voltages appeared to be OK.

After sometime, the screen goes blank but all the fans are running. I checked the BIOS setting to make sure it was not going into “sleep” mode. So the motherboard is POSTing, but eventually shuts down with all the fans still running. I decided to remove and resolder the 2200uF and 1500uF capacitors in case I had some bad solder joints. The mother still is POSTing and I’m able to get into the BIOS, but the motherboard shuts down with all fans still running.

After spending time on this, I noticed that Q14 – NTD80N02 and Q13 – NTD60N02R (ON Semiconductor) are HOT, and U17 and U15 – HIP6602B (Intersil) are also HOT.

Is it possible that both MOSFETs are no good, resulting in the instability I am observing? Should I replace the MOSFETs? Anybody else encore a similar problem after recapping?

I appreciate any help and guidance you can provide.
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Old 08-19-2010, 03:56 PM   #2
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Default Re: Instability issue with recapped SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 v1.0 Black Label

What rubycon series did you use? If you used the wrong series caps, that could cause the problems you are describing. It doesn't sound like a mosfet problem. If the mosfets were bad, the PC usually won't even power on.
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Old 08-21-2010, 09:24 AM   #3
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Default Re: Instability issue with recapped SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 v1.0 Black Label

Quote:
Originally Posted by richr69 View Post
I currently own the SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 v1.0 Black Label motherboard, which has been working since 2004, until recently. The system began to power off by itself. I suspected the 400 watt PSU and purchased a new PSU i.e. ULTRA 600 watt PSU. I connected the new PSU and after a couple of power cycles I heard a pop and a burned smell in the PC case.

I looked at the motherboard and the 2200uf capacitor appeared to be bad. All the capacitors were SACON.

I replaced the following SACON with Rubycon capacitors.

7 - 2200uF 6.3v
7 - 1500uF 16v
15 - 1000uF 10v
7 - 470uF 16v

After checking my solder joints I powered up the system, with CPU, memory, video card, keyboard/mouse. After resetting the CMOS, I successfully was able to get into the BIOS.

I was monitored the PC Health Status, and the voltages appeared to be OK.

After sometime, the screen goes blank but all the fans are running. I checked the BIOS setting to make sure it was not going into “sleep” mode. So the motherboard is POSTing, but eventually shuts down with all the fans still running. I decided to remove and resolder the 2200uF and 1500uF capacitors in case I had some bad solder joints. The mother still is POSTing and I’m able to get into the BIOS, but the motherboard shuts down with all fans still running.

After spending time on this, I noticed that Q14 – NTD80N02 and Q13 – NTD60N02R (ON Semiconductor) are HOT, and U17 and U15 – HIP6602B (Intersil) are also HOT.

Is it possible that both MOSFETs are no good, resulting in the instability I am observing? Should I replace the MOSFETs? Anybody else encore a similar problem after recapping?

I appreciate any help and guidance you can provide.
Do you have the hard drive connected? If so does the machine boot into Windows or Linux before going black?

Also check the voltage of your BIOS battery. Should be close to 3v, if not, replace
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Old 08-24-2010, 12:06 PM   #4
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Default Re: Instability issue with recapped SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 v1.0 Black Label

bigbeark and c_hegge, thanks for your replies.

I used Rubycon MCZ caps. I had the minimum installed i.e. memory, video card, and CPU.

I checked the battery and it measured 3.17v. I replaced it with one that measured 3.31v. I decided to install a spare CPU, memory and video card I had. This time I noticed that the BIOS page remained displayed for over 6 hrs. The U17 and U15 were still hot. I found it strange that the motherboard did not act up and it was simply the battery (so I thought). So now I decided to slowly start replacing the spare parts. I installed my original video card, and the BIOS remained displayed until I turned it off to install my original memory. The BIOS remained displayed for at least 3 hours. I had to step away for awhile, and when I came back I encountered my problem again i.e. blank screen with fans running. I decided to re-install the spare memory and video card I used previously (which resulted in the BIOS page remianing displayed for 6hrs), but nothing happens. The fans spin, but the BIOS does not boot anymore. I touched U17 and it no longer it hot, but U15 is still hot. So I think somthing got fried , either MOSFET(s) or one/both U15/U17. I did replace the CPU with a known working one, and still nothing. I was thinking as a last ditch effort to replace the drivers U15/U17 and possibly the MOSFET. Anybody have an ideas where I can purchase them or how to determine if the MOSFETs got fried?

I really hate to dump the motherboard, but I don't think I have any other options (if I can not replace U15/U17 and MOSFETs). If anyone has any more suggestioins, I welcome them.
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Old 09-01-2010, 11:33 PM   #5
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Default Re: Instability issue with recapped SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 v1.0 Black Label

I came across another motherboard (Biostar) which uses the PWM Controller ISL6556B (Intersil) and a 2 channel MOSFET driver ISL6614ACB (Intersil). My motherboard uses the same PWM Controller (U16) and two (U15/U17) 2 channel MOSFET driver HIP6602BCB (Intersil). The Biostar MB worked, so I decided to swap out the PWM controller to see if its causing me problems. The Biostar MB worked fine with no issues. My motherboard still had the same problem. Looking at the spec for ISL6614ACB its pin for pin compatible with HIP6602BCB. In fact, the HIP6602BCB spec suggests to use the ISL6614A for new designs. So I decided to remove one of the HIP6602BCB from my motherboard and replace it with the ISL6614ACB from the Biostar MB. The HIP6602BCB which was removed was now on the Biostar MB. Now the Biostar MB posted but eventually locked up now, resulting in similar issues I was having with my original MB. My original MB is now posting again and was stable for a good 2 hrs before I turned it off. However, the two driver chips (U15/U17), one HIP6602BCB and the other ISL6614ACB are still getting VERY hot. Sometimes its just one of them and so are some of the coils and caps.
I decided to order two brand new HIP6602BCB from Newark and see what happens.

Any thoughts on my latest experiments?
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Old 09-02-2010, 04:14 AM   #6
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Default Re: Instability issue with recapped SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 v1.0 Black Label

Check or replace the small lytic caps near PWM controllers for those MOSFETS.
Also check around them for bad SMD resistors.
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Old 09-02-2010, 04:25 AM   #7
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Default Re: Instability issue with recapped SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 v1.0 Black Label

For that matter,,, I would at least replace all the Sacon 6mm or larger no matter what their uF is.
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Old 09-02-2010, 08:18 AM   #8
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Default Re: Instability issue with recapped SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 v1.0 Black Label

Thanks for the reply PCBONEZ.

How does one determine the value of the small lytic caps (I do not see any obvious markings)?
I'm assuming when you say check the SMD resistors and see if there bad, you mean to measure its resistance and see if they reflect the expected value - correct? Otherwise, how does one determine a dad resistor?
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Old 09-02-2010, 09:10 AM   #9
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Default Re: Instability issue with recapped SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 v1.0 Black Label

Quote:
Originally Posted by richr69 View Post
How does one determine the value of the small lytic caps (I do not see any obvious markings)?
The uF and volts should be written on them.
3x reading glasses, a dental mirror, and a small flashlight will help a lot.

QUOTE=richr69;122437]I'm assuming when you say check the SMD resistors and see if there bad, you mean to measure its resistance and see if they reflect the expected value - correct? Otherwise, how does one determine a dad resistor?[/QUOTE]
Correct

Can you post some photos of the affected areas of the board?

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Old 09-02-2010, 09:50 PM   #10
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Default Re: Instability issue with recapped SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 v1.0 Black Label

U16 - PWM Controller ISL6556BCB (28 pin chip, upper right).

U15 - MOSFET Driver, originally HIP6602BCB, now ISL6614ACB (14 pin chip below U16).

U17 - MOSFET Driver HIP6602BCB (14 pin chip far left side).

MOSFETs from Left to Right below the 4 main inductors:
Q14 - NTD80N02
Q13 - NTD60N02R
Q12 - NTD80N02
Q11 - NTD60N02R
Q10 - NTD80N02
Q9 - NTD60N02R
Q8 - NTD80N02
Q7 - NTD60N02R
The four caps below the MOSFETs are 1500uF 16v Rubycon MCZ series.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg SY-P4I875P Voltage Reg Section.jpg.JPG (555.7 KB, 50 views)
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Old 09-03-2010, 05:44 AM   #11
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Default Re: Instability issue with recapped SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 v1.0 Black Label

The small caps I was talking about are like the silver one below Q13 & Q14 in the photo.
The one in the picture is probably just for I/O [USB or PS2] but others can be critical as they are used in POL regulators for setting things like Vtt and Vref for various IC chips around the board.
The small caps rarely fail but they DO fail occasionally.
When they do go bad it becomes a mind bender because no one considers them when trouble shooting.

I have less confidence in the small caps on Soyo boards than in small caps in general.
On Soyo boards the Silver caps were custom ordered to make the boards 'pretty'.
Those Silver caps are crap.
They might be labeled OST, Capsun, GSC, Evercon, or Sacon but they all came from the same factory.
- The Silver caps with vents usually have an odd [rare] abnormality in the vent stamp and ALL the Silver caps on Soyo boards have it regardless of the brand marked on the cap.
- I believe they were actually made by Capsun who OEM's Lytic caps to other companies including GSC/Sacon/Evercon, but I can't prove it. The ones claiming to be OST 'might' [or might not] be approved by OST but they certainly weren't made by OST. 'Real' OST caps don't have the abnormality.

Specifically the abnormality is that the edge of the outer sleeve is pressed into the vent stamping indicating the vent was stamped -after- the sleeve was shrunk onto the can. [Cans sleeved -then- vent stamped.]
If you look at any other cap brand the sleeve is not pressed into the vent indicating cans are vent stamped -then- sleeved.

~~

It may be a photo artifact but it looks like Q9 has a melted spot or a pit indicating internal damage.

You have a 4 Phase VRM which is 4 pairs of MOSFETS operating in parallel.
Q13 & Q14 may be getting hot, not because they have a problem, but because the other phases aren't taking their share of the load.
That could be because of blown MOSFETs in other phases.
Also, although HIP6602BCB and ISL6614ACB are supposed to be equivelent parts [taking your word on that] they probably don't have -identical- operating characteristics and that might be shifting load.

I would replace the other HIP6602BCB with a ISL6614ACB [or vice versa - make them the same] - and check -all- the other MOSFETs.

.
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Old 09-03-2010, 06:34 PM   #12
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Default Re: Instability issue with recapped SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 v1.0 Black Label

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCBONEZ View Post
The small caps I was talking about are like the silver one below Q13 & Q14 in the photo.
The one in the picture is probably just for I/O [USB or PS2] but others can be critical as they are used in POL regulators for setting things like Vtt and Vref for various IC chips around the board.
The small caps rarely fail but they DO fail occasionally.
When they do go bad it becomes a mind bender because no one considers them when trouble shooting.

I have less confidence in the small caps on Soyo boards than in small caps in general.
On Soyo boards the Silver caps were custom ordered to make the boards 'pretty'.
Those Silver caps are crap.
They might be labeled OST, Capsun, GSC, Evercon, or Sacon but they all came from the same factory.
- The Silver caps with vents usually have an odd [rare] abnormality in the vent stamp and ALL the Silver caps on Soyo boards have it regardless of the brand marked on the cap.
- I believe they were actually made by Capsun who OEM's Lytic caps to other companies including GSC/Sacon/Evercon, but I can't prove it. The ones claiming to be OST 'might' [or might not] be approved by OST but they certainly weren't made by OST. 'Real' OST caps don't have the abnormality.

Specifically the abnormality is that the edge of the outer sleeve is pressed into the vent stamping indicating the vent was stamped -after- the sleeve was shrunk onto the can. [Cans sleeved -then- vent stamped.]
If you look at any other cap brand the sleeve is not pressed into the vent indicating cans are vent stamped -then- sleeved.
Yes, they are all SACON. I only replaced the ones I originally indicated at the beginning of the thread. But replacing all the other ones are also a possibility.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCBONEZ View Post
~~

It may be a photo artifact but it looks like Q9 has a melted spot or a pit indicating internal damage.
I looked at it under a magnifing glass, and it does appear to be a pit. I wonder if I took a picture of the motherboard when I first purchased it. Hmmm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCBONEZ View Post
You have a 4 Phase VRM which is 4 pairs of MOSFETS operating in parallel.
Q13 & Q14 may be getting hot, not because they have a problem, but because the other phases aren't taking their share of the load.
That could be because of blown MOSFETs in other phases.
Also, although HIP6602BCB and ISL6614ACB are supposed to be equivelent parts [taking your word on that] they probably don't have -identical- operating characteristics and that might be shifting load.

I would replace the other HIP6602BCB with a ISL6614ACB [or vice versa - make them the same] - and check -all- the other MOSFETs.

.
I have 2 new HIP6602BCB on order and will eventually install the new ones. In the mean time, I decided to desolder Q14 - Q17. The following MOSFETs appear to be bad, based on the MOSFET testing method described below.
Q11 (w/pit), Q9 - NTD60N02R: Source-to-Gate and Source-to_Drain always indicate a high reading. Did not get the expected results using the MOSFET testing method below.
Q10 - NTD80N02: Source-to-Gate and Source-to_Drain are shorted.
The method I used to test the MOSFETs were as follows:

1.) Connected the meter negative to the MOSFET's Source.
2.) Touched the meter positive to the MOSFETs Gate.
3.) Moved the meter positive to the Drain. (Expect a low reading)
The MOSFET's Gate capacitance has been charged up by the meter and the device is turned on.
4.) With the meter positive still connected to the drain, touched a finger between Source and Gate. (Expect a high reading)
The Gate is discharged through the finger and the meter resistance goes high, indicating a non-conducting device.


Any thoughts were I can get NTD60N02R. I have spare motherboard where I can remove the NTD80N02.

I hope this solves my problem.
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Old 09-03-2010, 06:40 PM   #13
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Default Re: Instability issue with recapped SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 v1.0 Black Label

.

Last edited by PCBONEZ; 09-03-2010 at 06:43 PM..
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Old 09-03-2010, 07:24 PM   #14
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Default Re: Instability issue with recapped SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 v1.0 Black Label

Last post - Thought I found some but the lead time was like 6 months.

I -think- NTD70N03R are more heavy duty and will work if you change all 4 but PLEASE ask someone else to confirm.
Cross referencing MOSFETs is not my forte.
I usually just junk boards with toasted MOSFETs if I can't find original spec parts on some other scrap board.

Mouser has some of those.

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...08RZJOubhtI%3d

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...glduUOc7wjI%3d

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Last edited by PCBONEZ; 09-03-2010 at 07:27 PM..
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Old 09-04-2010, 07:45 AM   #15
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Default Re: Instability issue with recapped SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 v1.0 Black Label

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCBONEZ View Post
Last post - Thought I found some but the lead time was like 6 months.

I -think- NTD70N03R are more heavy duty and will work if you change all 4 but PLEASE ask someone else to confirm.
Cross referencing MOSFETs is not my forte.
I usually just junk boards with toasted MOSFETs if I can't find original spec parts on some other scrap board.

Mouser has some of those.

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...08RZJOubhtI%3d

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...glduUOc7wjI%3d

.
Thanks for all your help and suggestions.
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Old 09-04-2010, 08:08 AM   #16
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Default Re: Instability issue with recapped SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 v1.0 Black Label

If he doesn't wander in then send Toasty a PM about the cross reference.
http://www.badcaps.net/forum/member.php?u=4727
He seems to know transistors well. [Better than I do anyway..]
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Old 09-05-2010, 02:09 AM   #17
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Default Re: Instability issue with recapped SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 v1.0 Black Label

Hola!

Got your PM. PCBONEZ cross ref is correct. Comparing the 2, the 70n is compatible, higher power, and a tad faster.

If you register at onsemi.com, you can buy both direct. Just be prepared for a marketing call from sales.

I'd order extras for 2 reasons:
1) in case these go *poof* or you kill them on install
2) On takes the order more seriously and doesn't think you're a poof

They'll whack you for state tax and ~$8 UPS. They have 2,000+ of the 60n (38˘) and 66 of the 80n (52˘).

Welcome to the forums!
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Old 09-05-2010, 10:28 AM   #18
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Default Re: Instability issue with recapped SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 v1.0 Black Label

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toasty View Post
Hola!

Got your PM. PCBONEZ cross ref is correct. Comparing the 2, the 70n is compatible, higher power, and a tad faster.

If you register at onsemi.com, you can buy both direct. Just be prepared for a marketing call from sales.

I'd order extras for 2 reasons:
1) in case these go *poof* or you kill them on install
2) On takes the order more seriously and doesn't think you're a poof

They'll whack you for state tax and ~$8 UPS. They have 2,000+ of the 60n (38˘) and 66 of the 80n (52˘).

Welcome to the forums!
Toast
Toasty, thanks for the quick reply and your help. This is a great forum and a valueable resource. I think I'm going to do some ordering now, and hopefully my motherboard problem will be complete.
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