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More is Better?

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    #21
    Re: More is Better?

    Originally posted by PCBONEZ View Post
    A 32-bit OS can't address more than 4 Gb anyway which means even if you have more, it the system can't use it because the system 'can't see it'.
    .
    That's not exactly true. For example, Windows Vista and 7 with PAE (Physical Address Extension) can address way more than 3.x GB (with a kernel patch), but Microsoft does not want us to use more than 3.x GB on 32bit OS mostly for commercial reasons (the code to use 4GB+ RAM is there, but is disabled) . Many 32bit server editions of Windows do allow using more than 4GB of RAM.
    With Linux, you need a kernel with PAE support to address more than 4GB of RAM on 32bit versions of Linux.

    You do need a CPU with PAE support, but most modern CPUs support it.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension

    Comment

      #22
      Re: More is Better?

      even Win2k has a patch to allow the use of the full 4GB and possibly more.
      a friend of mine tried it and it works fine. i currently don't have a link though (i could ask him if anyone wants that patch)

      Comment

        #23
        Re: More is Better?

        Originally posted by ddscentral View Post
        That's not exactly true. For example, Windows Vista and 7 with PAE (Physical Address Extension) can address way more than 3.x GB (with a kernel patch), but Microsoft does not want us to use more than 3.x GB on 32bit OS mostly for commercial reasons (the code to use 4GB+ RAM is there, but is disabled) . Many 32bit server editions of Windows do allow using more than 4GB of RAM.
        With Linux, you need a kernel with PAE support to address more than 4GB of RAM on 32bit versions of Linux.

        You do need a CPU with PAE support, but most modern CPUs support it.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension
        I'm aware of that.
        PAE is intended for servers and in fact is slow due to the extra step both ways in the accessing RAM process .
        -
        Using it to speed up a consumer PC is counter productive.
        - So why would you?
        Why would you slow down your RAM access times in exchange for bragging rights on having more RAM that you probably will never use anyway?
        .

        I used to have hot rod but I wanted a bigger engine so now I drive a Peterbilt.
        - Good thinkin'!
        Now you have a really big engine....
        Zoom Zoom.
        .
        Last edited by PCBONEZ; 04-29-2011, 07:18 PM.
        Mann-Made Global Warming.
        - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
        -
        Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
        - Dr Seuss
        -
        You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
        -

        Comment

          #24
          Re: More is Better?

          Originally posted by Scenic View Post
          even Win2k has a patch to allow the use of the full 4GB and possibly more.
          a friend of mine tried it and it works fine. i currently don't have a link though (i could ask him if anyone wants that patch)
          It's not a patch.
          It's a switch in boot.ini
          .
          Mann-Made Global Warming.
          - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
          -
          Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
          - Dr Seuss
          -
          You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
          -

          Comment

            #25
            Re: More is Better?

            whatever he used (idk), it was a tool patching a handful of system files. not just the boot.ini.
            kinda makes me wonder what that tool is right now... i guess i'll ask him tomorr...erm..today.. 4am

            Comment

              #26
              Re: More is Better?

              Originally posted by PCBONEZ View Post
              I'm aware of that.
              PAE is intended for servers and in fact is slow due to the extra step both ways in the accessing RAM process .
              -
              Using it to speed up a consumer PC is counter productive.
              - So why would you?
              Why would you slow down your RAM access times in exchange for bragging rights on having more RAM that you probably will never use anyway?
              .

              I used to have hot rod but I wanted a bigger engine so now I drive a Peterbilt.
              - Good thinkin'!
              Now you have a really big engine....
              Zoom Zoom.
              .
              Well, at least you can use all your RAM and still maintain compatibility with 16bit programs and some devices which don't have 64bit drivers.
              But I do agree that for most 4GB+ users, 64bit is the way to go.

              Comment

                #27
                Re: More is Better?

                Oh I like W2k too.
                But more than 4GB on it is a waste.
                Mann-Made Global Warming.
                - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
                -
                Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
                - Dr Seuss
                -
                You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                -

                Comment

                  #28
                  Re: More is Better?

                  I'm still wondering what chipset that supports 512MB desktop SDRAM DIMMs?
                  I know 830 chipset in PIII notebooks supports two 512MB for one 1GB max.

                  Don't speak up about VIA or Nvidia. Intel or server chipset will do. I had poor issues with VIA & Nvidia in past and best left behind.

                  Cheers, Wizard

                  Comment

                    #29
                    Re: More is Better?

                    Intel 440BX which was widely used by ASUS and ABIT for slot 1 and socket 370 setups. I still have p2b-f and p3b-f in working condition. I used both up until 4 and half ago before I consolidated them into guest's on my xenserver.

                    Sadly all the hardware quality went downhill after that.

                    Anyways..

                    here's a list of intel chipsets
                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_chipsets


                    Here's a list of SIS chipsets

                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Integrated_Systems

                    Comment

                      #30
                      Re: More is Better?

                      Originally posted by Wizard View Post
                      I'm still wondering what chipset that supports 512MB desktop SDRAM DIMMs?
                      I know 830 chipset in PIII notebooks supports two 512MB for one 1GB max.

                      Don't speak up about VIA or Nvidia. Intel or server chipset will do. I had poor issues with VIA & Nvidia in past and best left behind.

                      Cheers, Wizard
                      My Gigabyte 8IDX ("P4 Titan") supports these. i845 Chipset with 1.5GB max (3 slots).

                      as for non-x86 hardware, old powermacs are fine with them too.
                      my two powermac G4 "Sawtooth" & "Gigabit Ethernet" (both 400MHz) work fine with them out of the box. quite impressive having 2GB RAM in a 400MHz box

                      edit: apparently, the i845 supports up to 3GB SD-RAM (3x1GB) :O
                      the gigabyte website says so too.. don't have anything bigger than 512MB to test though
                      http://www.gigabyte.lv/products/page/mb/ga-8idx/specs/
                      Last edited by Scenic; 04-30-2011, 04:27 PM.

                      Comment

                        #31
                        Re: More is Better?

                        That sad... sounds like intel was really *determined* to shove people to use P4 via more memory than PIII even PIII 1.4GHz were outpacing the P4 even at 2.8GHz! Back then when I entered athlon scene, I had no choice of good chipsets, it was either nvidia or VIA. The least problem was nForce2.

                        And this also explains lack of desktop boards using Pentium M except for few models by few makers.

                        Eventually I reached 775 using pentium dual core instead. I did not own P4 after athlon.
                        But I took advantage of P4 dirt cheap cost as temp solution for work and for dad's PC.
                        Now I'm working on replacing work PC with C2D as funds allows.

                        Cheers, Wizard

                        Comment

                          #32
                          Re: More is Better?

                          Originally posted by Wizard View Post
                          That sad... sounds like intel was really *determined* to shove people to use P4 via more memory than PIII even PIII 1.4GHz were outpacing the P4 even at 2.8GHz!
                          That's exactly what they were doing.
                          Intel even switched to Serverworks chipsets on their OWN dual Tualatin servers just to not make a Tualatin chipset that supports over 512Mb RAM.
                          .
                          Mann-Made Global Warming.
                          - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
                          -
                          Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
                          - Dr Seuss
                          -
                          You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                          -

                          Comment

                            #33
                            Re: More is Better?

                            Originally posted by Scenic View Post
                            edit: apparently, the i845 supports up to 3GB SD-RAM (3x1GB)
                            I think only one version of the i845 does.
                            Mann-Made Global Warming.
                            - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
                            -
                            Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
                            - Dr Seuss
                            -
                            You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                            -

                            Comment

                              #34
                              Re: More is Better?

                              the plain i845 (without letters) does. newer revisions (i845E, i845G*) don't

                              Comment

                                #35
                                Re: More is Better?

                                Originally posted by Wizard View Post
                                And this also explains lack of desktop boards using Pentium M except for few models by few makers.
                                I have some Itox i855 boards that run Pentium M + have a PCI-X slot.
                                [Same board was released as a DFI branded board too.]
                                Uses Pentium M for low power and the PCI-X permits decent hardware RAID cards.
                                Great for a file server or NAS setup that's on 24/7.
                                -
                                There are also a few Sossaman/Xeon based boards that can do that but desite the 'xeon' marketing they can't do 64-bit OS's. [Who cares on a file server though.]
                                There is an Intel server board that does this that is consistently only $10 on ebay because it's E-ATX and only has one PCI-X and one PCI-E slot. - That's FINE for a RAID file server/NAS.

                                And there are standard ATX socket 771 boards which can use Xeon Low Volt 5113, 5128, 5133, 5138, 5148 CPUs.
                                The 5138 is 35 watts, the rest are 40 watts.
                                I think they all use Speed-Step or equivalent to reduce power use even more.
                                The boards and RAM are more expensive but the CPU can be less than C2D.
                                Interestingly you can pick up a 5148 for under under $20 if you're patient while the others still tend to cost a fortune.
                                The 5148 is equivalent to C2D 6550 but only 40 watts. [2.33GHz 4M 133.]
                                - And if you want you could run two.
                                Such boards also tend to take a lot more RAM for later on should you actually need it. [16-64GB isn't unusual.]
                                .
                                Mann-Made Global Warming.
                                - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
                                -
                                Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
                                - Dr Seuss
                                -
                                You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                                -

                                Comment

                                  #36
                                  Re: More is Better?

                                  Typo .. [2.33GHz 4M 1333.]
                                  Mann-Made Global Warming.
                                  - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
                                  -
                                  Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
                                  - Dr Seuss
                                  -
                                  You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                                  -

                                  Comment

                                    #37
                                    Re: More is Better?

                                    Also Xeon 5160.

                                    I know there are some boards that uses P-M. Little known part is Asus produced an adapter for several compatible Asus boards, is CT-479. When I had it together, performance is excellent with 1.73GHz 740 CPU. But my dad needed faster PC so I had to give him my P4P800-VM with 2.8C GHz P4. I still have the kit to put back together later once I found a cheap board that is worth 25 since boards are still out of production for years. But this is rapidly getting pointless that I now have 2GHz P-M notebook working from two notebooks.

                                    P4P800 SE BIOS 1008
                                    P4P800-VM BIOS 1016
                                    P4P800-E Deluxe BIOS 1007
                                    P4C800-E Deluxe BIOS 1021
                                    P4GD1 BIOS 1005
                                    P4GPL-X BIOS 0205

                                    Last two boards is PCI-E and still fetching crazy price. I'm pissed.

                                    Cheers, Wizard
                                    Last edited by Wizard; 05-01-2011, 12:45 PM.

                                    Comment

                                      #38
                                      Re: More is Better?

                                      5160 isn't a LV Xeon. - I was only mentioning the LV versions.
                                      Mann-Made Global Warming.
                                      - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
                                      -
                                      Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
                                      - Dr Seuss
                                      -
                                      You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                                      -

                                      Comment

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