Help with K8N Neo4 Platinum

[justusjonas]

Hi,

I have a K8N Neo4 Platinum here, which is running fine (24/7 with 100% cpu load...), but looking rather bad.

Have a look at the attached photos, I think the KZG have definitely failed. That would be 4 caps to replace.

But what about the other caps? The Panasonic ones are also inside the VRM area but they are looking good as far as I can tell.

Then there are some more caps like Nichicon and KZE spread around the rest of the board. Any problems with them?

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Help with K8N Neo4 Platinum

Panasonic and KZE are fine.
.
Nichicon depends on the series and date code.
HM and HN made from 2001-2004 were defective.
The date code is as H0244 = year 2002 , week 44.
.
Other Nichicons are fine.
.

[Uranium-235]

Re: Help with K8N Neo4 Platinum

I thought they were not ALL defective. I would figure if the HM has lasted this far isn't not one from the defective batches

[c_hegge]

Re: Help with K8N Neo4 Platinum

If you're unsure about what to replace them with, then these would -probably- work, but would be an overkill.

These would be an exact match

[justusjonas]

Re: Help with K8N Neo4 Platinum

Panasonic and KZE are fine.
.
Nichicon depends on the series and date code.
HM and HN made from 2001-2004 were defective.
The date code is as H0244 = year 2002 , week 44.
.
Other Nichicons are fine.
.

Then I got lucky, the Nichicons are from 2005. So looks like I only have to replace those KZG...

I thought they were not ALL defective. I would figure if the HM has lasted this far isn't not one from the defective batches

Yes but the Nichicons on my board are not in critical areas (like VRM), so maybe they could fail without me even noticing.

If you're unsure about what to replace them with, then these would -probably- work, but would be an overkill.

These would be an exact match

I'm from Germany, so I would take these to replace the KZG:
http://www.elko-verkauf.de/de/shop-b...-16v-10mm.html

=> Panasonic FC. Should be fine, too?!

[mariushm]

Re: Help with K8N Neo4 Platinum

You have http://de.farnell.com/ in Germany.

http://de.farnell.com/nichicon/uhn1c...16v/dp/1823686
http://de.farnell.com/nichicon/uhm1c...16v/dp/1823809


these have slightly less ripple (2180mA+) and a bit higher impedance at 18mohm but they would probably work

http://de.farnell.com/panasonic/eeuf...0uf/dp/1800640
http://de.farnell.com/panasonic/eeuf...0uf/dp/1800639

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Help with K8N Neo4 Platinum

I thought they were not ALL defective. I would figure if the HM has lasted this far isn't not one from the defective batches

No. - At least don't count on it.

Nichicon said they were overfilled which means there was an error written into their procedure at the factory.
[having worked in industrial environments I suspect that was a combined news media interpretation and translation problem and what was actually meant by Nichicons press release was that the electrolyte was overfilled with one of it's ingredients - as in an error in the formulation.]
Either way that isn't going to change batch to batch.
.
In theory some from late in 2004 should be free of that problem but just after they fixed the first problem in 2004 they had a second problem, that being contaminated electrolyte from some cleaner or disinfectant.
[I suspect that happened in cleaning out the electrolyte storage tanks from the first problem.]
-
The first problem wasn't 'fixed' until the week 30-somethings [or late in the 20's] and there have been mass failures of HN/HM with date codes all through the week 40-somethings so if any got through it without one or the other problem it wasn't many.
-
Both problems apparently cause the electrolyte to break down but not necessarily at the same rate.
And those that last longer probably have fewer working hours on them or were in a cooler situation.
.
The second problem was reported in 2004. [As was the first, but it was later in the year.]
I know I've seen week 44 gone bad [as in all on a board and more than one make/model board.].
I'm pretty sure I've seen week 46 reported by a few people here.
- So, it looks to me like the final fix came sometime in the last 6-8 weeks of 2004.
.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Help with K8N Neo4 Platinum

=> Panasonic FC. Should be fine, too?!

No, FC are no where near adequate to replace KZG.
FC don't have a high enough Ripple Current rating and thus will run overheated.
- They won't last long.
.
.
If any of the small caps are 85C -sometimes- those go bad.
It's only occasionally a problem but it's almost always on older boards [5+ years old] that have been in hot cases.
.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Help with K8N Neo4 Platinum

1500uF 16v KZG have
Ripple = 2550 mA and ESR = .013 ohms.

The best FC 1500uF 16v [there are 3] is only
Ripple = 1815 mA and ESR = .035 ohms.
.

[justusjonas]

Re: Help with K8N Neo4 Platinum

You have http://de.farnell.com/ in Germany.

And I have to pay 20€ per order for shipping etc... Way too much for just four caps

1500uF 16v KZG have
Ripple = 2550 mA and ESR = .013 ohms.

The best FC 1500uF 16v [there are 3] is only
Ripple = 1815 mA and ESR = .035 ohms.
.

That's bad... wondering why they are selling FCs as replacement for KZGs. Anyway, they also have new KZGs but the ones they are selling have 1800uF. Would that be a problem?

[mariushm]

Re: Help with K8N Neo4 Platinum

What ?! ... That's really strange... I'm using ro.farnell.com and they send them from UK to Romania for 20 RON which is about 5 euro.
In my case the worst is Digikey with 60$ shipping fees...

Maybe you picked something they don't have in stock? If that's the case they add an extra fee, 110 RON or about 25 euro in the ro.farnell.com version.

If you want I could order them for you if you don't have other alternatives... but it would take 3-4 days to arrive and then 4-7 days to get to you in Germany.

PS. Yes, it looks like those particular capacitors I linked are not in stock, so they charge you that fee to bring them from US. Have a look again in the list they have and see what's on stock and close to what you need - I only made a simple search.

PS2. If you have the room on the motherboard, you could fit the 12.5mm x 30mm 1500uF 35v FR Series: AC Ripple Current:3630mA Impedance:0.013ohm : http://de.farnell.com/panasonic/eeuf...0uf/dp/1800673
Same story with this one: http://de.farnell.com/rubycon/35zlh1...35v/dp/8126682 - fits the parameters, but it's 35v and 12.5mm wide . Higher voltage isn't an issue, if diameter works you're good.

This is also in stock, same 12.5 x 30 but slightly higher impedance at 0.018: http://de.farnell.com/panasonic/eeuf...0uf/dp/1744971

And you have the FM series as well at 35v but it's even higher, 12.5mm wide and 35mm tall: http://de.farnell.com/panasonic/eeuf...35v/dp/1219477

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Help with K8N Neo4 Platinum

No you don't want KZG again.
.
The series you are looking for are those that are the same or better than KZG here:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...1&postcount=17
[In other words MBZ grade or better.]
.
You have RS Components, Farnell, Badcaps.net ships to Germany, and if you want Samxon the member named Big Pope sells them out of Hong Kong.

You could also get one of these.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/300355619669
http://www.ebay.com/itm/290564013072
That's one of the VERY few places it's save to buy caps on eBay.
.

[justusjonas]

Re: Help with K8N Neo4 Platinum

Thank you so much! You guys are great!

Didn't know it's that hard to find good replacement caps...
I went with the MCZ caps from ebay.

All the smaller caps on the board are rated 105°C and the other caps inside the VRM area are Panasonic so I should be fine by replacing those KZGs with the MCZs.