Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

[Behemot]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

Sure if somebody wants new stuff, he gets new stuff, I won't be putting used parts in whats supposed to be brandly new, not suicider Many people buy refurbished components on the other hand, for their custom builds, as a replacement if their crappy PSU dies and so on

[c_hegge]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

Yes, and referbished/re-capped OEM PSUs are great for that. I've used them in repairs lots of times, and it's never been a problem.

[mariushm]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

Well, I have to appreciate the Corsair rep answering on jonnyguru ... seems like an honest answer to me...

http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/show...?t=9489&page=2

There's no cost issue here - we have an approved vendor list. Anything that's on the list can be used. The vendor list is highly scrutinized and severely limited at the AX-level product. To get on the approved vendor list for AX the field failure rates and other performance specs have to be exceptionally tight, which is why we offer a 7 year warranty on those parts.

If Engineering has approved 4 separate vendors for the AXi secondary caps, then whatever's in stock and available can be built with those parts. You could buy one tomorrow and you might get Rubycon, Taicon, Nippon-Chemicon, or whatever else was on our approved vendor list.

Taicon is partially owned by Nichicon and the factory making these caps makes them to the Japanese standards with the Japanese methodology. The field failure rate is very, very low. Flex uses these caps on a lot of server products that have even more stringent lifespan and performance requirements than we do.

But then again, this is the internet, so I expect a percentage of people will use this to wag their finger at us despite having limited or no knowledge whatsoever of the lifespan or performance requirements.

Just like people complained that we used "too fast" a fan in one of our PSUs even though the fan maxed out at 60% duty cycle or something.

That is great, but they are in no way Japanese capacitors as has been advertised:

http://www.corsair.com/us/blog/ax-se...nical-overview

and that is where your problem is going to be. Taiwan and mainland China offices/factories/workers are not Japanese.

You are 100% correct, and this is being addressed. Jon wrote that blog almost immediately after he joined, and his unit (and most units) did have 100% Japanese capacitors.

To be honest, until today, I'd assumed the AX series was 100% Japanese caps too.

If somebody bought one based on that blog and was upset by the capacitor choice, I'll make it right somehow. Whether it be a replacement or whatever, we'll figure it out.

The last thing I want to do is mislead anybody. I may be stupid sometimes, but I'm not trying to be dishonest.

I personally don't have anything against Taicon - hell, my Delta 100w psu has them and they still measure well after decades.

[c_hegge]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

Yeah, I saw that, BUT corsair are wrong in saying the failure rates are as low as they are. Taicon are not as good as their parent company, and never have been. Delta are just good at not stressing their caps, so even CapXon and LTEC can last ages in there. Oklahoma Wolf clases Taicon as being on par with Teapo, and I think that's the general opinion of them here as well.

[Per Hansson]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

^
As I said, Seasonic are very expensive here. The G-360 starts at $130. Seriously, the OCZ ZS 650W was only $80

Wow that's justs crazy!
Is that in Australian dollars?
Here in Sweden the Seasonic G-360w PSU I linked previously has a quite competitive price.
I linked it to digge when he asked what PSU's to buy nowdays that has all Japanese electrolytic capacitors...

[c_hegge]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

Yes, that's $130 AUD. I searched high and low, but I couldn't find a single retailer selling one any cheaper than that.

[c_hegge]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

The TX650 V3 also uses junk caps (Samxon GF) http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cas...n_9.html#sect0

[Behemot]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

That's very bad. I guess I will get some of them Corsair PSU's on my new table soon.

[Wester547]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

That's a HiPro?? Where's the massive heat sinks and spots for 12.5 mm caps?

You mean... like this!?!?! I'm not sure if the URLed PSU has room for 12.5mm capacitors but it does have massive heatsinks, passive PFC, an overspec'd primary (and probably secondary) area and an ultraspeed, temperature-controlled fan (80mm sleeve bearing from ADDA), which is overkill if you look at what's on the label of the 250W on the linked page. It's a RoHS compliant PSU, too, from August of 2011 judging by the datecode of the primary capacitors, though it seems to be a newer revision of an older PSU but even then, it's good to know that nice Hipro units are not too far gone.

Oh well... at least it's still a HiPro. Their older OEM units often used crappy caps that lasted for many years, mostly because those PSUs were so well designed

Older PSUs tend to be more overbuilt and atop that the demand for power was probably less in older systems.

Yeah, I saw that, BUT corsair are wrong in saying the failure rates are as low as they are. Taicon are not as good as their parent company, and never have been. Delta are just good at not stressing their caps, so even CapXon and LTEC can last ages in there. Oklahoma Wolf clases Taicon as being on par with Teapo, and I think that's the general opinion of them here as well.

Well, if I'm not mistaken, Delta PSUs are not as well built as they used to be either. PCBONEZ said a bloated Ltec is not a stranger to him in a Delta PSU and I've seen posts on here with bloated Ltecs and Taicons from Delta PSUs.

Yeah though, shame on Corsair for using Capxon capacitors if you don't count fake polymers (Sacon). There is no excuse for using them. They are easily the worst of the worst of the commonly known capacitor brands.

[Shocker]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

Yeah though, shame on Corsair for using Capxon capacitors. There is no excuse for using them. They are easily the worst of the worst of the commonly known capacitor brands.

You mean, besides Sacon FZ?
Or Rulycon???
Or Jackcon???


But yeah, it's a shame. Not all that surprising, since even Panasonic has started to lose it, but still a shame.

[Wester547]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

Whoops, I meant to edit my post to say the worst of the worst if you don't count fake polymers (Sacon) is Capxon in terms of known brands, not no excuse for using Capxon if you don't use fake polymers like Sacon... WTF.

I've never had anything from Panasonic fail but that is talking 10+ year old electronics.

But then again, this is the internet, so I expect a percentage of people will use this to wag their finger at us despite having limited or no knowledge whatsoever of the lifespan or performance requirements.

True, but.... it's not hard to discern, at least for me, when something looks to most likely be questionable in quality to say the least, if not downright unacceptable, which is especially the case in PSUs considering they are about the most overlooked and for that matter overrated/underrated component in building a system by most people.

[ttn328]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

Sorry for a bit OT but related to Corsair - VS450, fake wattage ?

Corsair has recently launched the VS450 model in Vietnam. According to their website, they claim that: "Real power. The VS450 delivers a guaranteed 450 Watts of continuous power"
http://www.corsair.com/cn/vs-series-...er-supply.html

Today, on some Vietnamese forums, users have a suspicion that the VS450 can't deliver 450W. None of those have enough equipments to test. The link below is in Vietnamese but pictures say everything:
http://vozforums.com/showthread.php?t=3059996

Primary rectifier: GBU406, main transformer: ERL-35
Any expectation that it could deliver 450W ?

[tom66]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

Certainly not with 180uF of bulk capacitance!

For a PFC design, it's generally capacitance (in uF) doubled to get output power.

So 360W would be a good rating for it.

[Behemot]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

I thought I might get some FSP designs first, but you made me wanna test this one. I will write our miss in firm who is responsible for getting components to test to obtain me one…

[Stefan Payne]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

I suggested this power supply to a friend (Corsair Builder Series CX430 V2 430W) after reading reviews online and being aware that it uses non japanese capacitors, for example Teapo and Samxon. I am ok with those brands, they rarely fail. But, as you can see from the photos I took without voiding the warranty, there is at least 1 Capxon inside...

Well, at least it offers a 3 year warranty... Let's see if it will be needed.

Yeah, great marketing equipping...

I really 'love' those big fat japanese primary cap and than pretty cheap secondary caps. Like Su'scon or, in this case, Capxon or Samxon.

That doesn't make any sense!
From a technical point of view as the load on the primary cap is a joke. It almost never fails (and when it does it's mostly due to too high voltage)...

The TX650 V3 also uses junk caps (Samxon GF) http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cas...n_9.html#sect0

What's more worrying is the lack of Heatsinks on those CWT made units. I mean those transistors on the secondary side must get really hot or they need a whole lot of airflow...

...wich leds me to conclude that the PSUs we have right now are more efficient but not better than those ones you could buy 10 years ago...

[Behemot]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

Yes, when it's more efficient, no need for big heatsinks if you don't need it to run silent. Look at Fortrons But for sure if you try to keep it both quiet and having small sinks, than sure, crap caps gonna get bloated. But they are anyway, sooner or later

As for Samxon, would be wise to explicitely say Samxon GF. Man Yue as a company has a good production, comparable with japaneese caps. Only that Samxon GF is not amongst it (from obvious reasons, hint: Nippon Chemi-Con KZG).

[smason]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

for example Teapo and Samxon. I am ok with those brands, they rarely fail.

WTF? What planet do you live on?

[Behemot]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

Teapo is crap, but as for Samxon, the only series I have seen to eb failing with my own eyes or on pictures is GF. Many people have very good experience with RS, GC and GT on the other hand.

[Wester547]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

Yeah, great marketing equipping...

I really 'love' those big fat japanese primary cap and than pretty cheap secondary caps. Like Su'scon or, in this case, Capxon or Samxon.

That doesn't make any sense!
From a technical point of view as the load on the primary cap is a joke. It almost never fails (and when it does it's mostly due to too high voltage)...

Well, that's with exception to APFC designs, those do put significantly more stress on the input capacitor(s) so the subpar brands will more likely fail there. But I don't think having Japanese capacitors as part of the voltage doubler is a bad thing even with Taiwanese secondary capacitors - bad enough brands do fail even in the voltage doubler circuit, even if it takes longer than on the secondary as the ripple current and frequency is much less to filter (and input capacitors are clearly used as more bulk/energy storage than ripple/noise suppression).

What's more worrying is the lack of Heatsinks on those CWT made units. I mean those transistors on the secondary side must get really hot or they need a whole lot of airflow...

Well, chunky and big enough heatsinks do take up space so smaller heatsinks do allow for more airflow, especially since more efficiency = less wasted heat and less heat output. I agree that anemic enough heatsinks are rather undesirable, though - I would think, especially on the primary (as far as wattage ability goes), that having a good enough heatsink makes a sizeable difference.

...wich leds me to conclude that the PSUs we have right now are more efficient but not better than those ones you could buy 10 years ago...

More efficient and more powerful, but definitely not better, arguably worse. They seemed to give more attention to quality back then, those older units (by good OEMs, like Delta/Hipro/Lite-on/Astec, not the ones below that in tier) are built very well and are tanks, and certainly last much longer than today's "beasts" even without a recap and fan swap.

[Behemot]

Re: Shame on you Corsair! (Capxon)

More efficient and more powerful, but definitely not better, arguably worse. They seemed to give more attention to quality back then, those older units (by good OEMs) are built very well and are tanks, and certainly last much longer than today's "beasts" even without a recap and fan swap.

I would not ever dare to say that. Look at things like Enermax Platimax, it even has 5 years warranty which says a lot about the build quality I think. Did any of them old tank PSUs offer that? Compared value of dollar back than and now, and the prices, do you think you don't get several times better value both price and quality wise?