Running Everything Under Virtual Machine

[bgavin]

I built an E8400 system with a fast video card, SATA-II drives, and DDR2-800 at 4-4-4-12 timing.

It feels sluggish.
I think McAfee Enterprise is the culprit.

Here is the question:
What about running the web browser and email in a VM?
That way I only have to have the antivirus running in the VM.

The intent is keeping the main machine at maximum performance when the VMs are shut down.

[momaka]

Re: Running Everything Under Virtual Machine

If you don't visit shady websites, then just don't run any anti-virus.

I used to run AVG-Free 7.5 and I was really happy with it. But after I was forced to switch to version 8 I no longer recommend it. Well, it's still much better than Norton and all the other resourse hogs, but it's no longer as quick as it used to be.

[bgavin]

Re: Running Everything Under Virtual Machine

AVG Free 8 is a memory pig, same as McAfee. 100+mb consumed by various processes.

Task Monitor and others show a very high amount of I/O activity with the various McAfee processes. Second only to System Idle.
I audit all my client machines and have a very broad basis for what consumes the most memory and cycles. The antivirus is the hog, every time.

I use Sandboxie for surfing anywhere questionable, but that also introduces another layer of constantly-running process.

That is why I'm thinking a VM on demand would put an end to these always running processes.

[ratdude747]

Re: Running Everything Under Virtual Machine

comodo free worked for me until i switched to linux. its a bit over-protective but at least you are safer

[momaka]

Re: Running Everything Under Virtual Machine

AVG Free 8 is a memory pig, same as McAfee. 100+mb consumed by various processes.

Yeah, this is exactly why I no longer recommend it.

[willawake]

Re: Running Everything Under Virtual Machine



who is the biggest hog of them all......

[bgavin]

Re: Running Everything Under Virtual Machine

Yeah, but at least FF doesn't run all the bloody time.
I'm using v3.5 and it still has a rough edge here and there... fails to start, shows as running but not, etc. Nothing earth shaking, but still a bit buggy.

I prefer IE6, but don't use it any more.
Won't touch IE7 nor IE8.
Looked at Google Chrome... it looked like IE7, so no interest in that one.

[i4004]

Re: Running Everything Under Virtual Machine

chrome looks like ie7?
and ie7 looks much different to ff?
and i assume ff is more stable too?
lol!

recently i mostly use chrome because it's
1-fastest to start
2-fastest to browse
3-probably safest, with vast resource of google indexing and finding sites infested with malware etc.
(and also you just don't have that many peiople writing malware for browser with x percent of the marketshare, as opposed to xx of ie and ff)


nice to see ff still is the bloat that it always was...one must always wonder what do they do to make it so slow when you bring it out of background if it was there a bit longer...ridiculous...

so it's speed for me, you can take your extensions....

[KeriJane]

Re: Running Everything Under Virtual Machine

Oh!

Hi bgavin.

I just had this on two different Intel-brand boards for two different people.
Nice, e8200/DG33TL and e8400/DP35DP systems.
But sluggish.
Even during boot before OS loads.
Both boards have the latest BIOS, good memory, good PSU, clean heatsinks.

Unplugging all of the USB cables seemed to help the DG33TL system a bit, especially the one going to a hub with a printer containing a flash card reader.

But what really seemed to straighten these two similar systems out was:
1- Turned off Intel Speedstep in BIOS
2- Turned off XD technology in BIOS
3- Turned off Event Log Monitoring in BIOS

I feel that the Speedstep was the biggest culprit. Kinda pointless on a system built for speed anyhow.

Hope this helps,
Keri

[ratdude747]

Re: Running Everything Under Virtual Machine

google chrome is the lamest broweser ive seen in a while. no menu bar.

[bgavin]

Re: Running Everything Under Virtual Machine

I built a pair of Server 2003 R2 virtual machines tonight... pain in the ass under VM.

I was getting a bunch of "duplicate name found on the network" stuff... had to go flush all the caches, all VMs plus a separate Server 2003 machine that is acting as the browse master. MS networking really sux compared to NetWare.

I finally got a 2003 DC and 2003 Member server (Exchange) to talk, but the performance is awful.

All this is in preparation for a Win2000 domain, exchange, sql upgrade.
A virtual root canal...

I'll look into your BIOS suggestions.

[bgavin]

Re: Running Everything Under Virtual Machine

Keri, I took your suggestion and disabled both EIST and XD in the bios. Before and After benchmarking showed a teensie bit of improvement with them off. Very teensie. I left them off anyway, and also did an AlwaysOff for the opt-in execution disable string in the startup script.

I'm leaning more toward creating an Online VM for my web browser, Outlook, and antivirus. This will will me move McAfee and Sandboxie into a VM where they only run on demand. Both consume a lot of cycles at all times.

[shadow]

Re: Running Everything Under Virtual Machine

chrome looks like ie7?
and ie7 looks much different to ff?
and i assume ff is more stable too?
lol!

recently i mostly use chrome because it's
1-fastest to start
2-fastest to browse
3-probably safest, with vast resource of google indexing and finding sites infested with malware etc.
(and also you just don't have that many peiople writing malware for browser with x percent of the marketshare, as opposed to xx of ie and ff)


nice to see ff still is the bloat that it always was...one must always wonder what do they do to make it so slow when you bring it out of background if it was there a bit longer...ridiculous...

so it's speed for me, you can take your extensions....

I was a a little surprised that Firefox is such a resource hog. Back in the good ol days with Firefox 1.5, it was one lean web browser!

One thing that I find interesting with Chrome (I should actually try it), is that each tab becomes a new process. Therefore if some crappy site crashes the browser, only that one tab is affected.

However I like the addons to Firefox. The dictionary, Ad Blocker, Video Downloader are quite cool!

[i4004]

Re: Running Everything Under Virtual Machine

no menu bar.

exactly..doesn't look like ff or ie at all.
<wink>

[bgavin]

Re: Running Everything Under Virtual Machine

Keri, I created a new VM called "Online".

I moved Outlook, Sandboxie, Firefox, and McAfee to the VM.
The host machine is now snappy and responsive again.
The above apps are only active when the VM is up.

Perhaps the final solution is a separate machine entirely devoted to Online work. It can be accessed through RConsole easily enough, or a KVM switch.
It can be stored as a Ghost image, so when it gets AFU, it is easily restored.

This separate machine would also have to have the big disk space available for servicing customer machines. I don't want to run anti-virus on the primary workstation, and client machines are usually loaded with bugs.

[NxB]

Re: Running Everything Under Virtual Machine

Geez, just don't download viruses. This is a lot of work to keep your system clean. Interestingly enough, under vmware my 32bit xp is very fast and you have a better machine. What are you using for vm anyway?

How big is your network, why 2 server2k VMs? You are not building any real redundancy into your setup, you are just running 2 copies of 2k3. Your av shouldn't take up much anyway if you turn off real time scanning. I use esset and it consumes 16+/-mb of ram.

Alternatively you could set up a box to filter your network traffic and pre scan it for you.

[KeriJane]

Re: Running Everything Under Virtual Machine

Perhaps the final solution is a separate machine entirely devoted to Online work. It can be accessed through RConsole easily enough, or a KVM switch.
It can be stored as a Ghost image, so when it gets AFU, it is easily restored.

This separate machine would also have to have the big disk space available for servicing customer machines. I don't want to run anti-virus on the primary workstation, and client machines are usually loaded with bugs.

Hi bgavin

That's probably the best idea.... run a separate machine for online work. Say a small, unassuming notebook or maybe something like a Mac Mini.

The Mac Mini is nice for online stuff because (being UNIX based) it is immune to most online attacks. It's also physically TINY and nearly silent while packing a nice C2D punch. I've literally got a larger and noisier external drive!

Macs seem to have less tendency to get "AFU" from this sort of nonsense which keeps me busy with OTHER PEOPLE'S Windows boxes and NOT busy fixing my Macs. So far after well over a year on the same box, Leopard has NEVER gotten AFU.
My previous Windows box? "AFU" was it's middle name.

Of course, Linux distros have many of the same benefits as a Mac for those with the skill and inclination to use them.

Have Fun,
Glad that PC got all snappy for you,
Keri

PS. "AFU"= "All fouled Up" doesn't it?

[ratdude747]

Re: Running Everything Under Virtual Machine

exactly..doesn't look like ff or ie at all.
<wink>

in a bad way tried it and hated it. between android and chrome, anything google makes out side of a search engine is garbage to me.

i like firefox because its open source, runs on anything, and has a good layout. not to mention the number of available plugins

[bgavin]

Re: Running Everything Under Virtual Machine

Geez, just don't download viruses. This is a lot of work to keep your system clean. Interestingly enough, under vmware my 32bit xp is very fast and you have a better machine. What are you using for vm anyway?

Workstation 6.5

How big is your network, why 2 server2k VMs?

Development test. I'm preparing a 2000 to 2003 AD upgrade, and want to walk through it with VMs before I go live.

Your av shouldn't take up much anyway if you turn off real time scanning.

Mine eats up 100+mb. The McAfee UDateUI service has a very high amount of Read I/O. I'm not interested in turning it on and off when I do web pages or mail, because I will eventually forget and get stung.
My mail server gets about 30,000 spams per month. A few (enough) contain virus payloads in the mail that get caught by the AV.
The plan is a proxy box at the doorstep running SpamAssassin and SQUID, but I don't have the free time to devote to making that work.

My primary workstation is used to backup customer machines that come onto the bench. Data backups by themselves are not dangerous, but I need that data scanned as it goes onto my drives. Just in case.

My systems are fully GHOSTed, but even that is a pain to stop and rebuild when there are other things to do.
I'm just amazed at how invasive the A/V products are.

[NxB]

Re: Running Everything Under Virtual Machine

My primary workstation is used to backup customer machines that come onto the bench. Data backups by themselves are not dangerous, but I need that data scanned as it goes onto my drives.

That must take forever. Most of the customers we get don't really have much worth backing up. Usually I just keep it on their drive if it tested good. The only thing to watch out for is autorun.inf's in the root directory.

If I have to re-install I just delete stray .exe's and scan on the machine itself. If I had to copy everyone's data and pre-scan it I'd never get any work done. The development test is a good idea since you don't have to go on site cold. AD is a pain in the ass and windows policies are a joke.

Esset smart security isn't so invasive. I scan stuff I don't trust and audit my running processes/startup stuff. Comodo has a poor detection rate but an awesome firewall. Crackafee and norton's might have been good some time around 1998. They probably cost more than esset. Ironically the "best" av is malwarebytes and it doesn't on-access scan.

I find that the only viruses I have to worry about are the IE exploits because you can't stop them. Viruses in mail and on client machines are very easy to spot and as long as you don't execute them....