220uf 16v replace with 220uf 25v?

[eradz]

is it possible to replace 220 uf 16v with a 220uf 25v? I know you can go up in uf by about 10-20% but what about volts?

Thanks
Chase

[Toasty]

Re: 220uf 16v replace with 220uf 25v?

Depends on the application. One step up in volts is fine, in most cases, and usually within a brand/series there is no trouble.

It depends on the characteristics of the cap you are replacing vs. the cap doing the replacing. Reviewing the datasheets/specs is the best/safest way to be ~fairly~ sure.

Example:
Using a Nichicon HZ (super low ESR) cap where a Nichicon PW (medium low ESR) cap was, may cause problems upstream with the circuit. Same as if you used them the other way around. Circuits are designed using a specific type of cap with x/y/z characteristics which are figured in the engineering formulas at the design level.

Voltage Scale:
4-6.3
6.3-10
10-16
16-25
25-35 or 25-50
50-63
63-80
80-100
100-etc.

[retiredcaps]

Re: 220uf 16v replace with 220uf 25v?

is it possible to replace 220 uf 16v with a 220uf 25v? I know you can go up in uf by about 10-20% but what about volts?

edit: Never mind, looks like Toasty answered 1 minute before me.

[eradz]

Re: 220uf 16v replace with 220uf 25v?

Thanks for the replys. Ill give it a try and also read the data sheets on both caps!

[Topcat]

Re: 220uf 16v replace with 220uf 25v?

I have 220uF in both 25v and 16v, in both Rubycon and Samxon. If possible, stay with what came out originally.

[goop]

Re: 220uf 16v replace with 220uf 25v?

Do manufacturers themselves mix 16V/25V based on availability rather than requirements?

Have a look at this power supply from an LG monitor:


Besides the 470uF 25V Samxon in the front, the other 4 caps are 1000uF. The bulgy ones are a 16V Samxon and two 25V Decon short-heights. The one that looks okay is a 25V Samxon.

Do you suppose if that 16V Samxon was 25V it would survive? What about if those short-heights were full-size?

And by the way, how come the Samxon 1000uF 16V and 25V are the same physical size? The Samxon GF specs I found indicate 16V should be 16mm rather than the 20mm that it is here.

[paulstef]

Re: 220uf 16v replace with 220uf 25v?

Do manufacturers themselves mix 16V/25V based on availability rather than requirements?

Not only on availability but also on price.

If you buy 4000 or 40000 of the same item makes a huge difference in price, every cent counts. This engineering thinking is applicable to all parts. They are all under pressure to make it as cheap as possible.

I've never experienced problems buy replacing caps with the wrong (higher of course) voltage and even slightly different uF values.

I would also pay attention to the max allowable ripple current of the new cap. I mean I wouldn't use one that's rated for 900mA for 2000h if the old one was rated at 2.2A for 10000h.

But even if replacing it with a "not so good" one you won't see the TV see failing so soon. It normally takes years for them to fail, and TV manufacturers don't use exactly the BEST that's on the market.

Depends a bit on how long you want this TV to last after your repair. :-)

[retiredcaps]

Re: 220uf 16v replace with 220uf 25v?

Samxon GF series caps are Good For nothing. They are known to fail without bulging.

[goop]

Re: 220uf 16v replace with 220uf 25v?

Not only on availability but also on price.

I know they use whatever is readily available or is the cheapest. But the question is, suppose a 16V cap will work but last only 5000 hours at normal usage, and a 25V cap will last 15000 hours. Will they consider compromising the product and using the 16V if it's cheaper?

Because, if I'm not mistaken, that's what it looks like above. A mix of 16V, 25V, and 25V short-height. No diameter or height constaints. And surprise surprise, the 16V and the short-height 25V failed.

retiredcaps: I'll check first if replacing just the bulging ones works. There's also another 1000uF 25V, all alone at another part of the circuit, and it's not bulging so it does suggest a pattern.

[paulstef]

Re: 220uf 16v replace with 220uf 25v?

Will they consider compromising the product and using the 16V if it's cheaper?

Yes.
Where I work, the customer dictates the price and the specs of the product. If a cheaper part is available we probably will use this part.
But we don't manufacture stuff for the end user so in order to maintain a good relationship with the customer we put some effort into the products.

I don't think this is applicable to the consumer electronics market where the end user is , well us. If a TV lasts 2 years that's good enough for the manufacturer. I think they all don't put too much effort in producing long lasting TVs so it doesn't matter if consumers buy from another manufacturer next time.

[budm]

Re: 220uf 16v replace with 220uf 25v?

The Voltage rating of the cap is not what determine how long the cap will last (as long as you use the correct Voltage for the circuits, the temperature will determine how long the cap will last, there are two supplies in that circuit, one is for 5V (for logic, 16V caps), another one is for the backlights inverter circuit (25V caps).
105c cap will last longer than 85c running at the same temperature.

[goop]

Re: 220uf 16v replace with 220uf 25v?

Where I work, the customer dictates the price and the specs of the product. If a cheaper part is available we probably will use this part.

Don't the specs include "work reliably for at least 5 years, or 10 if the cost increase is <1%"?

You would assume their marketing departments check the combined overall effect of saving a few cents on capacitors and consumer likelihood of buying again after getting a product fail early. But I don't know. Capacitors aren't that expensive, and these products aren't very cheap. Longer warranties are a selling point, and at least in the geeky computer market you do see advertised stuff like Japanese caps and polymer caps.

budm: But voltage derating to varying degrees is common when using capacitors. Isn't it a continuous curve like the effect of temperature on a capacitor's life, rather than a question of not crossing a threshold (say, x3 the maximum voltage)? Or is it just that the curve tapers off enough at, say, x3? There's also the ripple current rating, though that seems to correlate with physical size and for some reason that 16V cap is as large as the 25V.

Anyway, I'll check the cap voltages once/if I fix this thing.

[paulstef]

Re: 220uf 16v replace with 220uf 25v?

Don't the specs include "work reliably for at least 5 years, or 10 if the cost increase is <1%"?

You would assume their marketing departments check the combined overall effect of saving a few cents on capacitors and consumer likelihood of buying again after getting a product fail early.

Everybody is working on a very tight profit margin, especially for cheapo consumer electronics.

If we can remove only one resistor that costs 0.2 cents we will do it. Sounds silly but at 50000 units per year it becomes important. Same goes for other parts, within limits of course.

Consumer electronics manufacturers don't seem to care too much. I mean if one guy buys an RCA and the other one an Emerson, both break, then both customers may just swap manufacturers for their next TV. Win/Win for the manufacturer, double loss for the customer.

[Skracth]

Re: 220uf 16v replace with 220uf 25v?

I am new here and new to the world of fixing electronics. This thread was very helpful.

[budm]

Re: 220uf 16v replace with 220uf 25v?

https://cdn.badcaps-static.com/pdfs/...64fb172f94.pdf


From VISHAY:
"A reduction in the operating voltage will not significantly increase the
capacitor's lifetime."