Are laptops affected by plague? How to identify?

[jotham]

I have an HP Pentium 3 laptop bought in early 2006 showing almost all the symptoms of the plague (cursor intermittently freezes or completely locks up, computer won't POST at all, POST keeps rebooting, etc.) Living in Taiwan, I can't find many computer "experts" who have heard of this plague phenomena (which started here) or can even help me identify caps at all on my laptop MoBo. I'm not a computer expert, but I'd like to direct the "experts" here in Taiwan to help me find a solution.

1. Is the plague applicable to laptops? I've Googled and it seems laptops have been affected by the plague as well.

2. What do laptop caps look like? I'm guessing caps on a laptop look entirely different from the PC cylindrical ones I often see online -- perhaps like a little black box?

3. One technician helped me look at the MoBo, but he didn't completely expose the board near the power supply. Will it be necessary to remove all the parts covering the board to identify (bad) caps?

[ratdude747]

Re: Are laptops affected by plague? How to identify?

the power brick. those get bad caps all the time.

the unit itself, not so much. those are usually small little smd cpas (tantalums and polys)... anything new enought to be a plague canidate is new enough to use smaller and more compact caps. tants can go bad, but it is rare.

is the power brick stock? i would take a multimeter and see what the voltage is doing... for that, analog is best since you have a needle that can be used to analyse ripple. if the needle jumps a lot and for a great distance, then you might have a problem.

if the brick is not stock, and not a reputable brand, then i would suspect that. find a reputable brand brick (buy or borrow) and try that. OEMs and targus/kesingon good, noname or fake logo bad.

other non-cap issues to suspect:

bad memory... idk if it has any soldered in or if it is all on SODIMMs... swap in some known working chips and see if that affects it.

[ratdude747]

Re: Are laptops affected by plague? How to identify?

oh, and next time you screw up and put the thread in the wrong spot, just post that "Could a mod move this to ____?"

restarting it elsewhere makes it a pain for the mods and can cause confusion on where to post replys. exception is topic changes... then you should post a link to the new thread on the old thread.

as a new member, it happens, but i thought you should know for next time.

ps- welcome to badcaps.net forums! enjoy your stay!

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Are laptops affected by plague? How to identify?

Which plague? - There are something like 7 or 8 of them.

Laptop motherboards use solid polymer caps and aren't affected.
The power brick might be but that's not super common.

That might even be a software problem. [Spyware, virus]

An over full or failing hard drive will do it. [System can't read or write to the page file.]

Check for bad RAM..... Use Memtest86.

Next things to check.
- Small bits of oxidation will form even on gold contacts over time and that can lead to bad connections in the RAM and/or CPU sockets. Remove and replace the RAM and CPU. Just that is enough to wipe off the thin oxide layer.
- The CPU thermal pad may have dried, shrunk and separated from the CPU or the heat-sink. You can fix that after remove/replacing the CPU. If you can't find a replacement pad them leave the old pad on and add a thin THIN layer of Arctic Silver [or similar but don't use that white crap on a CPU] to whichever side the old pad is NOT stuck to. [Usually they stick to the heat-sink leaving the CPU fairly clean.] - That method is technically 'not legal' but in reality it works fine with low power [low watt] CPUs.
- Just because you'll have it apart anyway give the inside a good cleaning out.
- Check that the CPU fan runs. Most are 3v I think. Two AA through D cell batteries in series should be enough to spin it up. [They are 1.5v each.] If it turns out it's a 5v fan use three batteries in series. 4.5v is close enough to spin a 5v fan.
- Remove and replace all connectors including drives. [For oxidation removal.]

Do that then see if it goes stable.

.

[jotham]

Re: Are laptops affected by plague? How to identify?

Which plague? - There are something like 7 or 8 of them.

Laptop motherboards use solid polymer caps and aren't affected.
The power brick might be but that's not super common.

When I read about this first time a few days ago, I was just sure this was my problem because none of the Taiwanese shops gave me any satisfactory explanations. They looked at it, merely told me motherboard needed replaced -- had it replaced once in May, but still same problems. I'm losing faith in them; I'm beginning to suspect they have no idea, but pretend like they do.

So I was thinking if I established that bad capacitors indeed were the culprit, I could ask HP to help remedy the situation, like Dell said they supposedly did for their customers.

This article on bad caps led me to believe that laptops were also affected. But perhaps you are right...

http://absoluteraleigh.com/blog/dell...rup-continues/

Dell also has been covering up laptop problems, some of which have yet to be exposed, but being a laptop repair company we’re already aware of them. When you get one or two models in for the same thing in over and over it’s pretty clear there is a problem.

That might even be a software problem. [Spyware, virus]

I thought this too and suggested this to the technicians, even asking them to clean it of viruses, but they didn't seem to think this was causing anything.

An over full or failing hard drive will do it. [System can't read or write to the page file.]
Check for bad RAM..... Use Memtest86.

Recently, one technician suggested my hard drive was suspect because POST kept rebooting and not finishing. He believes this because he "tested" it by inserting a new hard disk into my computer whereupon POST completes. Therefore, the old one is faulty.

If I could just send my computer to one of your stores in the States, I would. But not sure what to do here.

Next things to check......
Do that then see if it goes stable.

Thank you. This seems very good, detailed advice. I'm not sure I'm capable of doing this, but I'll see if I have any Taiwanese friends who can help. I've been fighting with this since April, so I'm willing to try anything.

[jotham]

Re: Are laptops affected by plague? How to identify?

the power brick. those get bad caps all the time.

the unit itself, not so much. those are usually small little smd cpas (tantalums and polys...
OEMs and targus/kesingon good, noname or fake logo bad.

other non-cap issues to suspect:

bad memory... idk if it has any soldered in or if it is all on SODIMMs... swap in some known working chips and see if that affects it.

Thanks for your response. It's a little too technical for me now, but I'll keep reading it and checking terminology until I understand it.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Are laptops affected by plague? How to identify?

When I read about this first time a few days ago, I was just sure this was my problem because none of the Taiwanese shops gave me any satisfactory explanations. They looked at it, merely told me motherboard needed replaced -- had it replaced once in May, but still same problems. I'm losing faith in them; I'm beginning to suspect they have no idea, but pretend like they do.

So I was thinking if I established that bad capacitors indeed were the culprit, I could ask HP to help remedy the situation, like Dell said they supposedly did for their customers.

This article on bad caps led me to believe that laptops were also affected. But perhaps you are right...

http://absoluteraleigh.com/blog/dell...rup-continues/


I thought this too and suggested this to the technicians, even asking them to clean it of viruses, but they didn't seem to think this was causing anything.


Recently, one technician suggested my hard drive was suspect because POST kept rebooting and not finishing. He believes this because he "tested" it by inserting a new hard disk into my computer whereupon POST completes. Therefore, the old one is faulty.

If I could just send my computer to one of your stores in the States, I would. But not sure what to do here.


Thank you. This seems very good, detailed advice. I'm not sure I'm capable of doing this, but I'll see if I have any Taiwanese friends who can help. I've been fighting with this since April, so I'm willing to try anything.

Sounds like your hard drive is on the way out then.
I suggest:
- get a replacement drive and a USB-to-HDD adapter.
- do a fresh install of the OS on to the new drive
- then use the adapter with the old drive to move any work and files onto the new drive.
It would be good to get this done before the drive fails completely if you have anything important on the system.

The Dell/HP laptop issue they are talking about was over defective nVidia video chips in laptops.
A P3 laptop is too old to have been affected by that.

.

[jotham]

Re: Are laptops affected by plague? How to identify?

Sounds like your hard drive is on the way out then.
I suggest:
- get a replacement drive and a USB-to-HDD adapter.
- do a fresh install of the OS on to the new drive
- then use the adapter with the old drive to move any work and files onto the new drive.
It would be good to get this done before the drive fails completely if you have anything important on the system.

The Dell/HP laptop issue they are talking about was over defective nVidia video chips in laptops.
A P3 laptop is too old to have been affected by that.

.

Would a bad hard drive also cause my cursor to freeze and now the computer not starting at all? I've suspected (or wondered) all along that the problem is mainly electrical from which all other systems are affected.

Friday, the technician confirmed there is a problem not only with the hard disk but MoBo as well. The hard drive was never an issue until this month. So I wondered if it is a misdiagnosis or peripheral symptom.

At any rate, not too worried about that as they can replace it pretty cheaply, albeit with chinese version. But I thought I should wait on that at least until the electricity problem is fixed, and see if that solves the hard disk symptom as well. Do tell me if I'm wrong on this point.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Are laptops affected by plague? How to identify?

Would a bad hard drive also cause my cursor to freeze and now the computer not starting at all? I've suspected (or wondered) all along that the problem is mainly electrical from which all other systems are affected.

Yes it can do all of the above.
A screen that isn't doing anything gets moved from RAM to a location on the hard drive called the page file. When you move the mouse the page becomes active again and the system reloads [refreshes] it from the page file. If the drive isn't working it can't refresh and the mouse hangs waiting for it.
And yes, a really bad drive can prevent a system from booting. Usually that's a shorted winding in the drive motor or a short on the controller board.

Friday, the technician confirmed there is a problem not only with the hard disk but MoBo as well. The hard drive was never an issue until this month. So I wondered if it is a misdiagnosis.

I can't say if he's right, wrong or just wants a bigger paycheck.
Drives fail more often than motherboards.
Replace the drive first and see if the problems vanish.
[Or even just borrow a drive for a day.]

.

[jotham]

Re: Are laptops affected by plague? How to identify?

Yes it can do all of the above.
A screen that isn't doing anything gets moved from RAM to a location on the hard drive called the page file. When you move the mouse the page becomes active again and the system reloads [refreshes] it from the page file. If the drive isn't working it can't refresh and the mouse hangs waiting for it.
And yes, a really bad drive can prevent a system from booting. Usually that's a shorted winding in the drive motor or a short on the controller board.


I can't say if he's right, wrong or just wants a bigger paycheck.
Drives fail more often than motherboards.
Replace the drive first and see if the problems vanish.
[Or even just borrow a drive for a day.]

.

Okay, I'll go ahead to have that replaced. Let me fill you in with some other confusing (to me) details and tell me if anything makes you change your mind about this.

In April, everyone (HP center, computer shop A) said the problem was the MoBo, and no one at all talked about the hard disk. The MoBo was replaced by shop A in April, but still had problems.

Whereupon I took it back to HP center and told them about an additional message I kept getting when the cursor would freeze saying that the 6th(?) hub port of 8 was overloaded. (This makes me think the problem is electrical.), but they still maintained that the MoBo was problem even though I told them it was just replaced!

I took it in again to shop A (who had replaced MoBo) and told them about the hubport message. They agreed with me that it couldn't be the MoBo. They took it to another shop B to fix, and gesticulated -- I didn't have Chinese friend with me at the time -- that the right side of the keyboard was the problem and fixed (perhaps the right-side hubport?)

It worked beautifully for about two months. Then in late July, I had the same problem with the cursor not responding again and locking up, until a week or two later when some terrible error happened, causing my computer to always keep rebooting without completing POST.

I took it to Shop B (at Shop A's recommendation), who told me that the operating system was at fault and needed repaired or newly installed, suggesting that when motherboard was replaced, it wasn't a perfect fit, causing this problem. Whereupon I took it back to Shop A, asking if indeed operating system was wrong. No comment on that, but then they discovered hard-disk problem, (without any mention of operating system or MoBo being problem).

HP now goes along with the hard-disk diagnosis, but still thinks MoBo is problem too.

I'm going to Shop A again tomorrow to ask why MoBo might be defective after being replaced by them two months ago. I thought to ask them if capacitor plague might be reason -- perhaps they replaced defective MoBo with another defective MoBo? -- and if they could help me find out.

In the end, I don't have the finances to pay for a new computer right now, which is why I'm working so hard to get this fixed...

[retiredcaps]

Re: Are laptops affected by plague? How to identify?

Okay, I'll go ahead to have that replaced.

In the end, I don't have the finances to pay for a new computer right now, which is why I'm working so hard to get this fixed...

I haven't read everything in this thread, but one to try before replacing the hard drive is to take it out of the laptop and run something like puppy or damn small linux off a CD or USB key.

If it works fine from CD or USB key, then you know it is not the mobo and likely the hard drive. If you still have the same problems as before, you didn't pay or buy a replacement hard drive.

[jotham]

Re: Are laptops affected by plague? How to identify?

I haven't read everything in this thread, but one to try before replacing the hard drive is to take it out of the laptop and run something like puppy or damn small linux off a CD or USB key.

If it works fine from CD or USB key, then you know it is not the mobo and likely the hard drive. If you still have the same problems as before, you didn't pay or buy a replacement hard drive.

The HP Center and computer shop ran a new hard disk and claimed that POST completes (before it wouldn't start), so I guess that would be the same thing, right? But I'm not sure they observed (or tried to observe) whether or not I was still having the cursor freezing/locking problem.

Anyhow, I don't know how to do most of this at home, but I'll print all the comments on this thread and highlight important parts to show tech-savvy friends and the technicians as well. Thx.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Are laptops affected by plague? How to identify?

jotham, I'll have to get back to reading your last post in a couple hours..

*** retiredcaps has a very good idea.
[He is saying to use a non-windows operating system that will run from a CD or USB drive. There are several available. I probably would use a Ubuntu live-CD because I'm not familiar with the ones he likes.]

I would like to add to that plan for trouble shooting.

- Try his suggestion in two conditions:
1- with the hard drive installed.
2- with the hard drive removed.
-
If the system works both ways the problem *may* not be the drive.
If it only works with the drive removed then you know the drive has electrical issues that are affecting voltgaes to other circuits.

.

[jotham]

Re: Are laptops affected by plague? How to identify?

the power brick. those get bad caps all the time.

the unit itself, not so much. those are usually small little smd cpas (tantalums and polys)... anything new enought to be a plague canidate is new enough to use smaller and more compact caps. tants can go bad, but it is rare.

is the power brick stock? i would take a multimeter and see what the voltage is doing... for that, analog is best since you have a needle that can be used to analyse ripple. if the needle jumps a lot and for a great distance, then you might have a problem.

if the brick is not stock, and not a reputable brand, then i would suspect that. find a reputable brand brick (buy or borrow) and try that. OEMs and targus/kesingon good, noname or fake logo bad.

other non-cap issues to suspect:

bad memory... idk if it has any soldered in or if it is all on SODIMMs... swap in some known working chips and see if that affects it.

Is that to say the power brick is separate from the MoBo and just might contain some of the same faulty (cylindrical?) capacitors common to PCs -- or is the brick just another part of the MoBo next to the power supply?

When looking at the MoBo with the technician, I told him the problem should be close to the power supply (which area was covered in many places), but I didn't know about the brick, and I thought everything I saw on the MoBo looked like the SMD tantalum capacitors. Did we look in the wrong place? Thanks...I'm waiting to learn more before I take it to the shop again.

[jotham]

Re: Are laptops affected by plague? How to identify?

Oh, now I just realized, the power brick is outside the computer on the power chord. PCs don't have this, correct? So technicians can help me inspect that for faulty capacitors? Thanks,

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Are laptops affected by plague? How to identify?

Oh, now I just realized, the power brick is outside the computer on the power chord. PCs don't have this, correct? So technicians can help me inspect that for faulty capacitors? Thanks,

Yeah, that thing that looks like a brick. - LOL

Power bricks are hard to work on because they aren't made to be opened/repaired.
I would just borrow one with the right voltage and at least the same amps and see if the problem changes.
If it makes no difference then leave the power brick alone.
If the problem disappears then I'd consider just getting a new one.

Your earlier post sounds like a classic case of a hard drive going bad slowly but getting worse over time.
The problem comes and goes for a while then if finally drops dead.

.

[ratdude747]

Re: Are laptops affected by plague? How to identify?

FYI- pIII= no usb stick boot.

puppy works... no ubuntu for a PIII (too heavy). xubuntu would be a better call.

i should have guessed the hd but i was too wired to think of it...

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Are laptops affected by plague? How to identify?

I wish you'd do some research BEFORE you post advice.

FYI- pIII= no usb stick boot.

Some will, some won't, depends on the BIOS.

no ubuntu for a PIII (too heavy).

BULL! - I'm running it on an old Gateway P3 Laptop right now.
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/In...emRequirements
-
Not to mention there are older versions.
For example 7.04 will run on a socket 5.
.

[jotham]

Re: Are laptops affected by plague? How to identify?

Yeah, that thing that looks like a brick. - LOL

Power bricks are hard to work on because they aren't made to be opened/repaired.
I would just borrow one with the right voltage and at least the same amps and see if the problem changes.
If it makes no difference then leave the power brick alone.
If the problem disappears then I'd consider just getting a new one.

I tried this with my friend, but the jack didn't fit. At any rate, I think the HP Center and computer shops used their own power chord or just the battery without much change (though sometimes it seems to start better with chord than with battery), and I've also tried this with just the battery. Shouldn't this mean it couldn't be the power brick? -- unless it can somehow send along it's electrical bad karma to the battery.

May have someone help me implement some of these ideas soon. I'm afraid a screwdriver just might be as potent as a grenade...in my hands. Or that my laptop somehow just wouldn't look quite the same, like C3PO when he got fixed.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Are laptops affected by plague? How to identify?

Try it on the power brick without the battery.
Maybe battery is shot and dragging down the brick when it tries to charge it.
.