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    Laptop upgrade advice

    I am at wit's end with this one.

    My poor Dell d400 got left behind when Gnome went to gnome 3. Damned intel i855GM graphics.

    This thread is half rant, half advice request.

    This really pisses me off. I had recently fixed it up and i put a lot of new parts into it over the year i have had it so far:

    1. 60gb hard drive
    2. NOS battery
    3. docking station
    4. RAM upgrades (maxed to 2gb, the second 1gb stick was a freebie)
    5. new mainboard (old one bombed the usb controller)
    6. mainboard mod (soldering repair to a broken usb port)

    I really like how it laid out. It is nice and compact, is realy easy to do repairs on, and is built really well.

    The reason why I think I need to upgrade is Gnome 3's shell is no longer intel i8xx (graphics) compatible... To those who saw my other thread, I did check in linux mint 11 (ubuntu 11.04 based), its broke there too. I get the idea that there is no plan to resupport it... my choices are:

    1. switch to KDE or XFCE or one of the other managers
    2. dump linux and use Windows XP for everything
    3. get a newer laptop with better graphics

    the reasons why I am not fond of 1 and 2 are:

    1. I tried KDE and hated it; XFCE and the others are too crappy (oldskoolish) for my liking.
    2. I don't like XP or any windows all that much. I put up with it when I must (FIRST robotics software). For now, this is what I am doing.

    the next problem is obtaining another laptop. I need it to be a decent unit as it will get lots of use in my freshman year of college next year. which leads to another lost possibility: I am in a bad finacial area; I am in the "doughnut hole"; I am too poor to buy a new or used laptop but too rich to get one paid for by scholarships and grants.

    I have $75 coming my way as part of graduation gift money but that was going to be saved to go towards something with 4 wheels and an engine. Trading in my existing laptop is out as well; it has been modded in a way that I do not feel good selling it.

    Does anybody have any ideas on what to do to get my problem solved? all of the working or reparable (read: no cracked screens, every part pulled, etc.) that will do what I want are at least $75, and that is with a dead battery (I use my battery a lot).

    Are there any suggestions are am i just screwed?

    edit- what I am looking for in a laptop:

    -pentium m or newer CPU (AMD and pentium dual core OK, celeron and sempron not ok)
    -at least 1gb of ram
    -graphics that are non-integrated or intel 9xx or newer)
    -any missing parts are easy to find (hard drives ok, caddies less ok, working screens not ok)
    -wireless G (or faster) and bluetooth 2.0 (or the spot for an integrated module, please no 2.1 or 1.1; I am a heavy bluetooth user)
    -decent quality/robustness
    Last edited by ratdude747; 06-02-2011, 12:24 AM.
    sigpic

    (Insert witty quote here)

    #2
    Re: Laptop upgrade advice

    XP. You've already got money in this one that you won't get back by selling it. The d400 is a decent, light laptop, and will run XP fine.
    Ludicrous gibs!

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Laptop upgrade advice

      personally i would go with xfce I am not a huge fan of windows I fix it everyday for work.

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Laptop upgrade advice

        Originally posted by dood View Post
        XP.
        Subscribed. The open source guys have always blamed Uncle Bill for phasing out hardware in their new OS releases. What are they doing just now?

        Windows can be a very customizable system if you know how to use it.
        Originally posted by PeteS in CA
        Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
        A working TV? How boring!

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Laptop upgrade advice

          I don't blame Bill for phasing out at all. There comes a time, I just prefer something different then what I fix daily. That and it gives me something new to repair and learn.

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Laptop upgrade advice

            I really, REALLY do not want to use xp full time. why?

            -Takes so much crap to make it perform basic stuff. drivers, antivirus, other crap, it adds up. Most linux distro's already have this out of the box and working.

            -Getting ready to be phased out- XP's support life is running out... And I doubt they will open source it.

            -I hate the layout- Some call it intuative, I call it retarded. The only reason people think it is intuitive is that they have been using uncle Bill's crap for so long.


            Another point worth making is that I did not mean Gnome 3 doesn't work on older hardware, it just doesn't use the nice shell and instead uses a "fallback" mode, which is gnome 3's parts in a gnome 2.3 style layout. Some people love the fallback, I hate it. Think of it like windows aero.

            I have used xfce before, but it was like a even more stripped down gnome 2.3... it was ok on older hardware but anything else it was just too lame to me.
            sigpic

            (Insert witty quote here)

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Laptop upgrade advice

              Originally posted by ratdude747 View Post
              -Takes so much crap to make it perform basic stuff. drivers, antivirus, other crap, it adds up. Most linux distro's already have this out of the box and working.
              There's an universal automatic driver installation disc floating around. Grab a copy. Or try MicroXP for a change... it lacks certain things but it's stupid small and stupid fast if that's what you want.

              You're knowledgeable enough to not need antivirus unless you share your laptop with other people. I haven't used realtime AV in over 4 years.

              Originally posted by ratdude747 View Post
              -Getting ready to be phased out- XP's support life is running out... And I doubt they will open source it.
              SO WHAT? If it runs NOW on your laptop, it'll still run when they phase it out. Didn't the Gnome guys do exactly the same by blacklisting your video chip?

              Originally posted by ratdude747 View Post
              -I hate the layout- Some call it intuative, I call it retarded. The only reason people think it is intuitive is that they have been using uncle Bill's crap for so long.
              Again, SO WHAT? You don't like it? Mod it. Move stuff around. Change the shell. Back when i was into this kinda thing there was this and it was great. Much better than Litestep or its clones, all with zero support. And from what i see it looks even better now.

              Originally posted by ratdude747 View Post
              Another point worth making is that I did not mean Gnome 3 doesn't work on older hardware, it just doesn't use the nice shell and instead uses a "fallback" mode, which is gnome 3's parts in a gnome 2.3 style layout. Some people love the fallback, I hate it. Think of it like windows aero.
              Use KDE instead. Though, KDE does look a lot like winblows so you may not like it. It's also got that really large clock and fat taskbar.
              Originally posted by PeteS in CA
              Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
              A working TV? How boring!

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Laptop upgrade advice

                Use XP

                Laptop was 'designed' around it and it will work.

                I have a couple of machines similar to that one. Ubuntu is just bloated and runs Gbit nic at 14M/s top. With crashing desktop manager, this thing is useless, slow and RAM hungry.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Laptop upgrade advice

                  I think i found a comprimise.

                  Linux mint 11 without swapping to gnome shell seems tolerable. A bit too xp-ish for my taste but at least it works and is current.

                  how many times do I need to say this? I DO NOT LIKE XP. IT SUCKS. PERIOD.

                  ps- I hate big clocks and fat taskbars. Biggest beef about kde. And on that note, It would take a LOT of work to make XP what i am looking for in an interface... see what gnome shell REALLY is and you will see.)

                  I know about driver discs, but they are by now out of date and I have yet to find a torrent for them if i even wanted them.

                  I really did not want this thread to turn into a linux bashfest... more of an "Ideas to find a better laptop cheap" thread was what I wanted.
                  Last edited by ratdude747; 06-02-2011, 11:53 AM.
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                  (Insert witty quote here)

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Laptop upgrade advice

                    Originally posted by ratdude747 View Post
                    how many times do I need to say this? I DO NOT LIKE XP. IT SUCKS. PERIOD.
                    Windows 7.
                    Originally posted by PeteS in CA
                    Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
                    A working TV? How boring!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Laptop upgrade advice

                      Originally posted by Th3_uN1Qu3 View Post
                      Windows 7.
                      sucks too. not pirating nor dishing out that kind of $$$ (if it came with a laptop, I'd dualboot it).
                      sigpic

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                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Laptop upgrade advice

                        Originally posted by ratdude747
                        how many times do I need to say this? I DO NOT LIKE XP. IT SUCKS. PERIOD.
                        You know, RD, if you actually took the time to install and customize XP to your liking instead of making all of these rants about it here, you would have been a happy camper right now.

                        I think the problem here is that you are focusing too much on the little things like the way XP looks and other crap like that. But look at the big picture - you need a good running laptop and you don't have a lot of money to spend. So, either switch to KDE or go with XP - at least that's what I would do if I were in your position.

                        I prefer XP Pro because it really is "stupid small and stupid fast" as Th3_uN1Qu3 mentioned (well, actually, it's quite a functional OS).
                        Besides, you need the laptop for school, right? That means you don't need any fancy shit, just some office programs like OpenOffice, Adobe Reader, etc. Also, if I remember correctly, PSpice only runs on Windows - just saying, in case you need that for your university (you'll be doing EE, correct?). (and yes, I am aware that there are Linux equivalents of PSpice)

                        Originally posted by ratdude747 View Post
                        I really, REALLY do not want to use xp full time. why?

                        -Takes so much crap to make it perform basic stuff. drivers, antivirus, other crap, it adds up. Most linux distro's already have this out of the box and working.
                        It takes me no more than 1 to 1.5 hours after the Windows install to get all of the basic software I need (Adobe (Flash, Reader, etc.), Java, MS Office, etc.). 2 to 2.5 if I really go wild trying to get everything on there the right way.

                        As far as antivirus - well, again, this is a school laptop and you shouldn't need it (unless, of course, you're one of those kids that bring their laptops to class only to dick around on the internet ).

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Laptop upgrade advice

                          screw this thread, i shouldn't have ever mentioned winblows in the first place. if you could make multiple desktops work dynamically like they do in gnome shell, then it might have hope. there isn't as far as i have seen... gnome shell is the first of its kind...

                          But for the final record, my beefs with winblows and KDE:

                          Windows:
                          -requires extra stuff to make it secure (doing nothing more than web mail (no spam/attachements) did virus me once, lesson learned). like buying a car and having to install your own seat belts.
                          -not free or open source- I want to be able to do what i need to do without cracking sh!t.
                          -for what you get, bloated (mint 11 no mods runs faster)
                          -no support in the future
                          -pain in the a$$ to make certain things work (bluetooth DUN for example)

                          KDE
                          -eveythign starts with a K or a Q
                          -all my favorite programs are gtk, not qt (I know you can mix-math, but it hogs ram)
                          -too much like vista/7

                          One last note- I think i just remembered something- the issues with gnome shell +i8xx was related to the latest intel drivers meant to speed up i9xx performance... I remember my laptop's graphics going to hell under ubuntu last year over it (the issues were oddly missing in fedora 14 but showed up in 15). maybe there is hope.
                          sigpic

                          (Insert witty quote here)

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Laptop upgrade advice

                            ratdude:

                            I finally got around to installing Gnome 3 on this laptop...

                            It is _not_ blacklisted as you can see:


                            Why you people use this over KDE, I don't know.

                            In any case, if you want to give Ubuntu another try, I can help you upgrade to Gnome 3 in 11.04, but you can wait a few months and get the next release. You do not need a new laptop.
                            "We have offered them (the Arabs) a sensible way for so many years. But no, they wanted to fight. Fine! We gave them technology, the latest, the kind even Vietnam didn't have. They had double superiority in tanks and aircraft, triple in artillery, and in air defense and anti-tank weapons they had absolute supremacy. And what? Once again they were beaten. Once again they scrammed [sic]. Once again they screamed for us to come save them. Sadat woke me up in the middle of the night twice over the phone, 'Save me!' He demanded to send Soviet troops, and immediately! No! We are not going to fight for them."

                            -Leonid Brezhnev (On the Yom Kippur War)

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Laptop upgrade advice

                              ???

                              that is not the shell, thats the fallback mode (which works with everything, and sucks) or it didn't fully update

                              this is the shell:



                              run (alt+f2 or in terminal)
                              Code:
                              gnome-shell --replace
                              and try it out. it is a bit "different", so some exploring my be needed to see how it works.


                              if the shell shows up as in my posted pic:

                              if when you click the clock at the top, if you get all numbers on the calendar (and not just blocks), then you are ahead of me. if all of the icons in the upper right (audio, networking, accessibility, etc.) are always visible, and in the applications screen all of the left-hand icons always show up (they broke when at least one program was running), then post a few screenshots as you managed to make it all work. if not, then it is still broken.
                              sigpic

                              (Insert witty quote here)

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Re: Laptop upgrade advice

                                that's the new gnome-shell.... looks to me like a half-ripoff of OSX and the netbook version of KDE.

                                Just so you know, it's pretty easy to change KDE to look like GNOME Shell or the gnome fallback mode. my kde doesn't have a fat taskbar or a big clock. neither does my windows. in all honesty, its very easy to do. it takes three clicks to change. everything in GNOME starts with a g too lol.

                                but you do have a good point, you use gtk apps. what i don't get is why you want GNOME Shell to run, if you've been fine with the original shell for a while.

                                if you are looking for cheap, decent laptops, sign up for Buy.com's emails; they tend to have a refurb corporate laptop sale every week or so; sometimes its latitutdes, hp compaqs, etc. they're decent and work well.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Re: Laptop upgrade advice

                                  ratdude:
                                  Doh!

                                  I'm trying to get native Gnome3 to run, but Xorg has DRI disabled on 855gm in Ubuntu by default for some reason and so it crashes before going to fallback mode. I'm trying to figure out a way to enable DRI again. Will keep you updated. I've seen others and your post at Fedora so I'll tell you if I get the same graphical glitches as you.

                                  If you were using Ubuntu, I would tell you to update your Intel drivers from the PPA, that's what I'm counting on making it work well in Ubuntu, but in Fedora, I imagine you'd have to compile the Xorg and libdrm driver from source, since what they give you in FC15 is most likely 6 months old.
                                  "We have offered them (the Arabs) a sensible way for so many years. But no, they wanted to fight. Fine! We gave them technology, the latest, the kind even Vietnam didn't have. They had double superiority in tanks and aircraft, triple in artillery, and in air defense and anti-tank weapons they had absolute supremacy. And what? Once again they were beaten. Once again they scrammed [sic]. Once again they screamed for us to come save them. Sadat woke me up in the middle of the night twice over the phone, 'Save me!' He demanded to send Soviet troops, and immediately! No! We are not going to fight for them."

                                  -Leonid Brezhnev (On the Yom Kippur War)

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Re: Laptop upgrade advice

                                    Originally posted by toastygoodness View Post
                                    that's the new gnome-shell.... looks to me like a half-ripoff of OSX and the netbook version of KDE.

                                    Just so you know, it's pretty easy to change KDE to look like GNOME Shell or the gnome fallback mode. my kde doesn't have a fat taskbar or a big clock. neither does my windows. in all honesty, its very easy to do. it takes three clicks to change. everything in GNOME starts with a g too lol.

                                    but you do have a good point, you use gtk apps. what i don't get is why you want GNOME Shell to run, if you've been fine with the original shell for a while.

                                    if you are looking for cheap, decent laptops, sign up for Buy.com's emails; they tend to have a refurb corporate laptop sale every week or so; sometimes its latitutdes, hp compaqs, etc. they're decent and work well.
                                    on the starting with a g, not really.

                                    sure, there is gedit and gnumeric, but evolution, abiword, totem, rhythmbox, banshee, nautilus, nibbles, etc. the only kde non Q's or K's are Amarok and Dolphin.

                                    I was fine with the original shell but the new shell is a lot better. Kinda like saying you were fine with a 386, why do you want an i7?

                                    the kicker is that it seems that it is not a performance issue but a driver issue... so close yet so far away?
                                    sigpic

                                    (Insert witty quote here)

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Re: Laptop upgrade advice

                                      Sorry, you're right ratdude, there are some serious issued... I didn't even get to that point... The desktop is completely corrupt and everything is invisible and sometimes shows up when I move the mouse over it. I enabled DRI by creating a xorg.conf file, and DRICONF shows DRI is enabled, but it just doesn't work.

                                      Maybe wait till 11.10 before buying a laptop... Perhaps by then the developers will make things right.

                                      Also, I can see why you prefer Gnome over KDE... It's a lot more consistent (But a lot less flexible at the same time) than KDE. KDE is for people like me who like the Windows GUI. Gnome resembles mac style quite a bit more.
                                      "We have offered them (the Arabs) a sensible way for so many years. But no, they wanted to fight. Fine! We gave them technology, the latest, the kind even Vietnam didn't have. They had double superiority in tanks and aircraft, triple in artillery, and in air defense and anti-tank weapons they had absolute supremacy. And what? Once again they were beaten. Once again they scrammed [sic]. Once again they screamed for us to come save them. Sadat woke me up in the middle of the night twice over the phone, 'Save me!' He demanded to send Soviet troops, and immediately! No! We are not going to fight for them."

                                      -Leonid Brezhnev (On the Yom Kippur War)

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Re: Laptop upgrade advice

                                        Can't you revert to the old drivers that worked properly? If the new drivers don't work, use the old ones.

                                        Edit: Is this really a driver issue? There are too many problems to make me think that this is caused by the driver.
                                        Last edited by lti; 06-03-2011, 01:35 PM.

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