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    #1

    Dual Tualatin Heat

    I got my TR-DLS dual Tualatin bords running again by replacing the little caps near the onboard LSI SCSI chips.

    I have three of these, the best runs too hot IMHO, seeing temps of 45C on CPU1 and 57C on CPU2. Using decent fans and sinks and Arctic Silver so I think it should run cooler. It uses 2x 1400 Tualatin PIII-S.

    Board runs well, but I get warm air blowing out of the PSU (Thermaltake TR-2) 430 watt.

    I discovered that the heat spreader is removable on these chips. I cleaned out the cavity on the chip that de-lidded itself, put some Arctic Silver in there and re-attached the lid. No apparent effect on temps.

    I finally got this one to lock up while playing Solitaire. It won't lock playing video.

    So I guess I'll recap the whole thing. It uses Ruby ZLs & Nichi HM in the VRM
    area (lots of them) and Ruby YXG(?) elsewhere. Nothing domed, ESR values look good.

    Any ideas where the heat is coming from?
    Tags: None
    #2
    Re: Dual Tualatin Heat

    The power supply you are using is ATX 2.2 with twin 12v rails. Pentium IIIs and pretty much all CPUs in their era and before don't use 12v AT ALL and draw all their power from 5v. There you have your problem. I have the same problem even though my PSU (Xilence, afaik it's 460W) has 32 amps on the 5v rail, it isn't enough. I will have to mod the power supply with a small converter that takes power from ATX 12v and supplements 5v.

    CPU2 runs a bit hot IMO, check that the heatsink sits tightly, sometimes they don't line up all that well. But 45-50C is normal for them. But man, locking up with Solitaire? That's nasty. Anyway, i don't think you should recap the motherboard, you need another power supply or some radical mods to the one you have.
    Last edited by Th3_uN1Qu3; 12-07-2010, 11:23 AM.
    Originally posted by PeteS in CA
    Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
    A working TV? How boring!

    Comment

      #3
      Re: Dual Tualatin Heat

      I'm curious to know if it would benefit Tualatin setups to change the caps on those motherboards from KZE Or Rubycon ZL/YFG class VRMs to lower ESR like HM or MBZ.
      "We have offered them (the Arabs) a sensible way for so many years. But no, they wanted to fight. Fine! We gave them technology, the latest, the kind even Vietnam didn't have. They had double superiority in tanks and aircraft, triple in artillery, and in air defense and anti-tank weapons they had absolute supremacy. And what? Once again they were beaten. Once again they scrammed [sic]. Once again they screamed for us to come save them. Sadat woke me up in the middle of the night twice over the phone, 'Save me!' He demanded to send Soviet troops, and immediately! No! We are not going to fight for them."

      -Leonid Brezhnev (On the Yom Kippur War)

      Comment

        #4
        Re: Dual Tualatin Heat

        Originally posted by mockingbird View Post
        I'm curious to know if it would benefit Tualatin setups to change the caps on those motherboards from KZE Or Rubycon ZL/YFG class VRMs to lower ESR like HM or MBZ.
        Well, I am going to replace the ZL with MBZ that I have on hand, and the HM with FM that I have ordered. I will see over the holidays if this helps. I will also be trying one of Zippy Emacs PSUs to see if this helps stability.

        Comment

          #5
          Re: Dual Tualatin Heat

          Why replace HM with FM??? Different class of caps. HM should be replaced with HM that has a datecode later than '06, Panasonic FJ, Rubycon MBZ, Samxon GC, or UCC KZG if you're desperate.
          "We have offered them (the Arabs) a sensible way for so many years. But no, they wanted to fight. Fine! We gave them technology, the latest, the kind even Vietnam didn't have. They had double superiority in tanks and aircraft, triple in artillery, and in air defense and anti-tank weapons they had absolute supremacy. And what? Once again they were beaten. Once again they scrammed [sic]. Once again they screamed for us to come save them. Sadat woke me up in the middle of the night twice over the phone, 'Save me!' He demanded to send Soviet troops, and immediately! No! We are not going to fight for them."

          -Leonid Brezhnev (On the Yom Kippur War)

          Comment

            #6
            Re: Dual Tualatin Heat

            Originally posted by mockingbird View Post
            Why replace HM with FM??? Different class of caps. HM should be replaced with HM that has a datecode later than '06, Panasonic FJ, Rubycon MBZ, Samxon GC, or UCC KZG if you're desperate.
            Is Panasonic FM not a low enough ESR? I checked the Digi-Key catalog for 1200uf Ripple is 2470, Impedance is .018.

            Comment

              #7
              Re: Dual Tualatin Heat

              No, FM is not comparable to HM.
              "We have offered them (the Arabs) a sensible way for so many years. But no, they wanted to fight. Fine! We gave them technology, the latest, the kind even Vietnam didn't have. They had double superiority in tanks and aircraft, triple in artillery, and in air defense and anti-tank weapons they had absolute supremacy. And what? Once again they were beaten. Once again they scrammed [sic]. Once again they screamed for us to come save them. Sadat woke me up in the middle of the night twice over the phone, 'Save me!' He demanded to send Soviet troops, and immediately! No! We are not going to fight for them."

              -Leonid Brezhnev (On the Yom Kippur War)

              Comment

                #8
                Re: Dual Tualatin Heat

                My bad. The board currently has Nichicon HD(M) to be replaced with Panasonic FM.

                However, I looked up HM pdf just now for 1200uf - Ripple 1490 Impedance .025

                Then I looked up HD - ripple rating for 1200uf is 1430 Impedance .038

                So I think the FM is superior.

                Those numbers are from Nichicons own site

                Comment

                  #9
                  Re: Dual Tualatin Heat

                  Senior's moment. I see it now.Nichi HD @16v 1200uf is impedance .022, Ripple 2150.

                  So FM is better than HD, but HN is better at .001 and 2900.

                  HM not available in 16v, 1500uf looks roughly the same as FM @1200

                  So HN is really low ESR and newer stock is reliable.

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Re: Dual Tualatin Heat

                    Originally posted by Th3_uN1Qu3 View Post
                    The power supply you are using is ATX 2.2 with twin 12v rails. Pentium IIIs and pretty much all CPUs in their era and before don't use 12v AT ALL and draw all their power from 5v. There you have your problem. I have the same problem even though my PSU (Xilence, afaik it's 460W) has 32 amps on the 5v rail, it isn't enough. I will have to mod the power supply with a small converter that takes power from ATX 12v and supplements 5v..
                    I would be very interested in how that modding could be done. I realize that most ratings on the labels of power supplies are "optimistic".

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Re: Dual Tualatin Heat

                      You'll see it in a couple weeks. I have the circuit designed already, i just need to etch the PCB and build it.
                      Originally posted by PeteS in CA
                      Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
                      A working TV? How boring!

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Re: Dual Tualatin Heat

                        Originally posted by Th3_uN1Qu3 View Post
                        The power supply you are using is ATX 2.2 with twin 12v rails. Pentium IIIs and pretty much all CPUs in their era and before don't use 12v AT ALL and draw all their power from 5v. There you have your problem. I have the same problem even though my PSU (Xilence, afaik it's 460W) has 32 amps on the 5v rail, it isn't enough. I will have to mod the power supply with a small converter that takes power from ATX 12v and supplements 5v.
                        That thermaltake is actually a single rail old HEC v1.3 unit with a bit of label work:

                        http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/332

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Re: Dual Tualatin Heat FOLLOWUP

                          Replaced the 4 Nichicon HD(M) 1200uf 16V with Panasonic FM.
                          Replaced the 12 Rubycon ZL 2200uf 6,3v with Rubycon MBZ.
                          Replaced 1 Ruby 6.3v 1000uf with Panny FM 10v 1000uf
                          These were all in the VRM.

                          Also replaced 4 Ruby ZL 2200uf 6.3v near the Ram slots with Panny FM.

                          Result: CPU2 runs at 39C instead of 57C. No hot air coming out of the PSU.
                          Can play solitaire without freezing.

                          The original solder did not melt or flow very freely. Didn't like the look of a few of the new joints so I reflowed them. This was a "pin job". Anyway it works now!

                          Comment

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