Best mobo brand?

[i4004]

Re: Best mobo brand?

interesting..
when you say "support", do you mean asking about how to solve quirks, or you mean requests to return the board because it's not working well.

in that light, if you had 2-3 dfi baords and had to use support(in any way or form) what does that tell us about dfi?

otoh, back in the day i bought dfi as they were touted as most compatible boards(anything you put in just works) by pc magazines, and indeed there were no problems(bu tthere probably wouldn't be any with msi or asus or gb boards alike). they surely were not high-end at all, they were mid-grade...teapos and alike...
i was on their web too..seems all that's left now is lan-party line...
so they'll probably be dead soon too...

[willawake]

Re: Best mobo brand?

no DFI have blood iron series as well. 7 dfi boards came in to one of the chains here they hardly look dead soon

what i dont get is why some of the manufacturers (asus, gigabyte etc) have such a huge range. surely there is no need for more than 10 boards. there is far too much choice (some of it i can hardly understand what is the choice) it is confusing and they dont provide enough info to compare the boards properly. also it probably costs much more to produce and support a large range.

i would have bought a new pc a few months ago if i could make up my mind.

[Scenic]

Re: Best mobo brand?

gigabyte mainboard comparison (made by a guy from the german gigabyte forum)

only covers the intel chipsets for LGA775

http://www.stud.uni-karlsruhe.de/~ufbds/Gigabyte/Vergleichv2.htm

rough translation...
http://translate.google.de/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stud.uni-karlsruhe.de%2F~ufbds%2FGigabyte%2FVergleichv2.htm&sl=de&tl=en&hl=de&ie=UTF-8

[i4004]

Re: Best mobo brand?

>7 dfi boards came in to one of the chains here they hardly look dead soon

i mean because of orientation to gamers(will parents give cash in the season of recession?) and overclokers(who the hell overclocks these days?).

if they survive, good...it seems they're making pretty good boards.
not for me, as i would get the feeling i'm paying for things i would never use, because i don't wanna go to bios more than once per board lifetime...and that is one too many times too..hehe...

>what i dont get is why some of the manufacturers (asus, gigabyte etc) have such a huge range

it probably means they can sell almost anything they make...
low, mid and high grade mobos.

if you look at particular niche(for example media playback) you probably won't find too many mobos from a particular mfr...
if you limit the choice by particular chipset(ie intel or amd platform, completely new, or somewhat older system) too.

as for brand, i think asus, gb, mis etc. are mostly the same quality(if same chipset is used etc.), while intel may be a bit above them as their machines many times goes to business usage, so they need that extra reliability etc.
but as i said, for me intel doesn't qualify for either media playback, OR win2k machine, which is what i wanted...

so why don't you just buy intel board if you don't have such weird conditions as i do...oh..hold on...you just did!
good for you!
<wink>

btw. is that small intel board quiet?

[UraBahn]

Re: Best mobo brand?

For newer systems I generally buy only used OEM motherboards, which are made primarily by Intel or Foxconn. I find OEM boards to be extremely reliable despite the oftentimes proprietary BIOS. (And there are ways around proprietary BIOSes, indeed.)

When I do buy new things though I buy whatever I can afford. I'm starting to warm up to AsRock due to decent reliability and a great price, just as long as I don't place too heavy demands on them. I will generally avoid other Hsing Tech made boards, though. (I look upon AsRock as Hsing Tech's "premium" line.)

BTW my 4CoreDual-VSTA has mainly NCC KZG (very heat sensitive, must be kept cool at all times), Panasonic FJ (OK), OST RLX (no worries as long as they're kept cool), and a single ugly little Evercon near the PCIe slot (due to be replaced.) It's powered by that 400W LiteON that I kicked earlier (whose Taicons I've long since evicted in favor of Sanyo WG caps.) Fitted with the ever-frugal Celeron 420, it's probably no threat at all to the KZG.

[Scenic]

Re: Best mobo brand?

BTW my 4CoreDual-VSTA has mainly NCC KZG (very heat sensitive, must be kept cool at all times), Panasonic FJ (OK), OST RLX (no worries as long as they're kept cool), and a single ugly little Evercon near the PCIe slot (due to be replaced.)

interesting...

mine came with Nichicon HM (2006 datecode) for VRM in and OST for out.
all other caps (except 2 pannys at the RAM slots) were Taicons.

[Per Hansson]

Re: Best mobo brand?

interesting..
when you say "support", do you mean asking about how to solve quirks, or you mean requests to return the board because it's not working well.

in that light, if you had 2-3 dfi baords and had to use support(in any way or form) what does that tell us about dfi?

In the case of Asus; to solve really strange quirks (which they never manage to do in the end anyway!)

In the case of Dfi; this was for overcloking, so help with settings etc, explanations for some obscure BIOS settings etc
High end Dfi boards are very difficult to setup (which is a disadvantage if you don't like fooling around with the BIOS and overclocking)
Yea, I'm a overclocking junkio lol

Here is a nice mail session I had with Asus, like everything else they never solved it, I've confirmed the issue exists on several Asus mobos
Start reading from the end upwards (yea, that last mail is the final one I got from them!)


Date: 8/28/2008 9:48:34 AM
Subject: Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: Motherboard Maximus Formula

Dear Valued ASUS Customer,

We apologize for not being able to solve your problem quickly. This case will be passed on to a special engineer.

Best Regards,
ASUS Support



---------- Original Message ----------
From :
Sent : 2008-08-28 01:45:32
To : "tsd@asus.com.tw"
Subject : Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: Motherboard Maximus Formula



Yes, I have tried clearing the CMOS, you are more than welcome to come home to my
house and do the Windows reinstallation yourself to confirm
As I said the issue is the same on two Asus mainboards, with two different optical
drives, Asus Maximus Formula and Asus P5Q-E.
Plextor PX-810SA and a LG GGW-H20L Blu-Ray HD-DVD optical drive
With the SATA controller running in IDE mode it works fine, in AHCI or RAID mode it
does not work reliably, surley this would not be any problem for you to setup a system
like this, there are hundreds of people having issues with this, see for example the cd
-freaks forums; http://club.cdfreaks.com/f61/new-bui...issues-251280/

Sincerely - Per Hansson, chief Technical Editor @ Techspot.com

---------- Original Message ----------
From:ASUS TSD
To:
Date:2008-08-27 08:45:52

Dear Valued ASUS Customer!

What I am saying is that we do not support your Windows installation (since we did not
install it), but of course we will assist you with any driver related issues.

One quick question, have you tried to reset the BIOS to default settings and/or reset
the CMOS compleately, by turning the computer off, and reving the BIOS battery for a
few minutes?

Best Regards,

ASUS TMSS Support



---------- Original Message ----------
From :
Sent : 2008-08-26 23:56:35
To : "tsd@asus.com.tw"
Subject : Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: Motherboard Maximus Formula


Oh for fucks sake, I'm telling you the BIOS is having difficulties identifying the drive!
And I take it then you're saying Windows is an unsupported OS?
Some good support from this company I must say!

Sincerely - Per Hansson, chief Technical Editor @ Techspot.com


---------- Original Message ----------
From:ASUS TSD
To:
Date:2008-08-26 09:24:54

Dear Valued ASUS Customer!

As long as the SATA optical drives are functional in the BIOS, the motherboard
functions normally, if Windows does not work, we cannot support that, since we did
not installed it on your computer.

Best Regards,

ASUS TMSS Support



---------- Original Message ----------
From :
Sent : 2008-08-22 21:27:03
To : "tsd@asus.com.tw"
Subject : Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re: Motherboard Maximus Formula


Both my Plextor PX-810SA and LG GGW-H20L Blu-Ray HD-DVD drives are SATA
Sincerely - Per Hansson

---------- Original Message ----------
From:ASUS TSD
To:
Date:2008-08-22 12:00:23

Dear Valued ASUS Customer,


What model och DVD drive are you using? SATA or PATA?
Best Regards

ASUS TMSS Support



---------- Original Message ----------
From :
Sent : 2008-08-22 01:48:24
To : "tsd@asus.com.tw"
Subject : Re:Re:Re:Re: Motherboard Maximus Formula


These are the errors shown in the EventLog, with no Optical drive attached these
errors stop occuring and the whole system feels more responsive...
Event Type: Error
Event Source: iaStor
Event Category: None
Event ID: 9
Date: 2008-08-17
Time: 10:55:25
User: N/A
Computer: XPX64
Description:
The device, \Device\Ide\iaStor0, did not respond within the timeout period.

For more information, see Help and Support Center at
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
Data:
0000: 0f 00 05 00 01 00 6e 00 ......n.
0008: 00 00 00 00 09 00 04 c0 .......À
0010: 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
0018: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
0020: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........
0028: 00 00 00 00 00 .....


---------- Original Message ----------
From:ASUS TSD
To:
Date:2008-08-21 17:06:54

Dear Valued ASUS Customer,

Could you please provide us with an extracet of the error log, regarding the Optical
drive.

Best Regards

ASUS TMSS Support



---------- Original Message ----------
From :
Sent : 2008-08-20 05:41:33
To : "tsd@asus.com.tw"
Subject : Re:Re: Motherboard Maximus Formula


Sorry, I should have clarified that yes, I do have problems in Windows too, when the
DVD is being accessed the system may lock up totally for a short while, and it feels
generally unresponsive at times... I also get errors in the Event Log relating to the
DVD...
I just tried the DVD drive on a friends computer, a Asus P5Q-E, it has exactly the
same bahaviour, when the ICH10R was running in AHCI or RAID mode the optical
drive was acting very strange, but if I switched it to IDE mode there where no issues
at all...

Sincerely - Per Hansson

---------- Original Message ----------
From:ASUS TSD
To:
Date:2008-08-19 09:53:17

Dear Valued ASUS Customer,

Is the only problem that the boot sequence takes 15 seconds longer?

Best Regards

ASUS TMSS Support



---------- Original Message ----------
From :
Sent : 2008-08-14 05:04:54
To : "tsd@asus.com.tw"
Subject : Motherboard Maximus Formula

Apply date : 8/14/2008 4:17:22 AM
[Contact Information]
*Name : Hansson
*Email Address :
Phone Number :
City :
*Country : Sweden

[Product Information]
*Product Type : Motherboard
*Product Model : Maximus Formula
*Product S/N :
Place of Purchase : Komplett
*Date of Purchase : 2007/11/26

[Motherboard Specification]
*Motherboard Revision : 1.02G
*Motherboard BIOS Revision : 1004

[VGA Card Specification]
*VGA Card Vendor : Asus
*VGA Card Model : 8800 GTS 512MB
*VGA Card Chipset : nVidia G92
*VGA Card Driver : 177.41

[CPU Specification]
*CPU Vendor : Intel
*CPU Type : S775
*CPU Speed : Q9450 C1

[Memory Specification]
*Memory Vendor : OCZ
*Memory Model : DDR2
*Memory Capacity : 8GB

[HDD Specification]
HDD Vendor : Western Digital
HDD Model : Caviar GP RE-2
HDD Capacity : 1TB

[Add-on Card Specificatio]
Add-on Card Vendor : Auzentech
Add-on Card Type : Audio
Add-on Card Model : X-Meridian

*Operating System : WinXP 64bit

[Problem Description]
Hi, I've got an issue with my DVD, I upgraded my CPU from a Q6600 to a Q9450 and
thus I was required to update the BIOS to atleast version 1004, I did so and after that
my DVD drive started acting strange.
On POST (before "DET IDE" stage) I can hear the DVD drive being reset 3 times in a
row (the motor inside makes a sound as it moves...)
Then When I get the DET IDE message on the POST display it does the same thing
3 times in a row again... I thought it was something wrong with it so I replaced the
Plextor PX-810SA with a LG GGW-H20L Blu-Ray HD-DVD drive, but it does exactly the
same thing...
Further in the POST when searching for the bootmedia the system just hangs for ca
15 seconds before giving me the boot screen for WinXP...

I have 3x WD GP RE-2 GP 1TB HDD's connected to SATA ports 0,1,2, in a RAID5
array
I have a WD Raptor 150GB drive on SATA port 4 and the DVD on SATA port 5

Now the thing is that if I disable the RAID mode of the SATA controller and run in IDE
mode the DVD drive only does one reset during the bootup and the bootup is almost
instant... (atleast 15sec shorter)

And before when I was using BIOS version 0907 I also had no problems with the
DVD drive...
I have also tested BIOS versions 1201 & 1207 with exactly the same results...

[willawake]

Re: Best mobo brand?

is this only with asus or other boards with ICH10R

[Per Hansson]

Re: Best mobo brand?

I have actually not used any ICH9/10 controllers from other manufacturers so I don't know
I solved the problem by getting the LSI 8704ELP RAID Controller
This also turned into this problem which they also never got back to me on
It does however seem like they have fixed that problem, as seen here;

2008/11/04 update
Rampage Formula 0601 Bios
Fixed some RAID card does not be detected when plus it in PCIEX16_2

To:
From: tsd@asus.com.tw
Date: 10/31/2008 12:09:43 PM
Subject: Re:Re:Re: Motherboard Maximus Formula

Dear Valued ASUS Customer!

I will investigate your problem, and see if there is a solution.

Best Regards,

ASUS TMSS Support

Please do not remove any previous conversation from this email.



---------- Original Message ----------
From :
Sent : 2008-10-31 17:32:20
To : "tsd@asus.com.tw"
Subject : Re:Re: Motherboard Maximus Formula


Hi, sorry, I had the wrong mainboard selected, the mainboard I have the problem
with is a Rampage Formula
And with BIOS version 0410 (latest) the system does not work at all with the said
RAID card
But when I DOWNGRADED to the previous BIOS version 0403 then it worked just
fine!

Please look into this problem, it was introduced in the BIOS version after 0403 on the
Rampage Formula mainboard! (I also found someone with the same problem on
your chinese forums; http://vip.asus.com/forum/view.aspx?.../> uage=zh-tw

Sincerely - Per Hansson, editor @ Techspot.com


---------- Original Message ----------
From:ASUS TSD
To:
Date:2008-10-31 07:50:02

Dear Valued ASUS Customer!

Unfortunately, we are unable to help you with third party hardware.

Best Regards,

ASUS TMSS Support

Please do not remove any previous conversation from this email.



---------- Original Message ----------
From :
Sent : 2008-10-31 02:30:20
To : "tsd@asus.com.tw"
Subject : Motherboard Maximus Formula


Apply date : 10/31/2008 2:18:14 AM

[Contact Information]
*Name : Hansson
*Email Address :
Phone Number :
City :
*Country : Sweden

[Product Information]
*Product Type : Motherboard
*Product Model : Maximus Formula
*Product S/N :
Place of Purchase : Komplett
*Date of Purchase : 2007/11/26

[Motherboard Specification]
*Motherboard Revision : 1.02G
*Motherboard BIOS Revision : 1207

[VGA Card Specification]
*VGA Card Vendor : Asus
*VGA Card Model : EN8800GT
*VGA Card Chipset : G92
*VGA Card Driver : 177.92

[CPU Specification]
*CPU Vendor : Intel
*CPU Type : Socket 775
*CPU Speed : Xeon X3230

[Memory Specification]
*Memory Vendor : OCZ
*Memory Model : DDR2
*Memory Capacity : 8GB

[HDD Specification]
HDD Vendor : 1x WD Raptor 150GB, 3x WD 1TB GP-RE2
HDD Model :
HDD Capacity :

[Add-on Card Specificatio]
Add-on Card Vendor : LSI
Add-on Card Type : RAID
Add-on Card Model : MegaRAID SAS 8704ELP

*Operating System : WinXP 64bit

[Problem Description]
Hi, as you where unable to solve my issues with the built in RAID of this mainboard I
bought a LSI MegaRAID SAS 8704ELP

But the computer does not POST with it, when the system is off, i.e. in standby the
"LCD POSTER" blinks "CPU INIT"
When I press the power button the fans spins at 100%, and all diodes on the
mainboard are lit, nothing happenes...
I added a Port 80H diagnostic device but it simply says "99" with the card attached...

I even tried removing all add in cards (even the graphics card)
But the system would still not POST

I also tried both of the two blue PCI Express x16 slots

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Best mobo brand?

Another little jab at Asus:

How many RAM ads have you seen that say:

>> Works with this, this , and this Chipset. {Except Asus.} <<

.

[jpdoe]

Re: Best mobo brand?

Down here Asus is considered a luxury brand, and it's usually charged accordingly. I'm relieved to see that others share my dislike for this brand.
One of the things I don't like about them is that they don't always follow the chipset / GPU manufacturer standard design, and choose to implement things their way. That results in the the customer's inability to use the standard driver and software/hardware tweaks.

[dood]

Re: Best mobo brand?

I like the new Gigabyte S Series boards. All solid caps in the VRM, and the last one I saw had Sanyo 'lytics everywhere else.

[i4004]

Re: Best mobo brand?

per, why didn't you just use ide mode if it worked?

about raid, i took a look at raid instructions for my p5k-v and just laughed at how insecure all thing looks...just by reading the manual...heh...
(there should be better way to make raid or at least have simillar functionality...don't newer chipsets have some options to utilise it...this
http://www.intel.com/support/chipset.../cs-026142.htm
probably same thing that asus calls it "Drive Xpert") )

seems gbyte has same issues
http://forums.tweaktown.com/f69/iast...-period-26584/

about the symtpoms
"Sorry, I should have clarified that yes, I do have problems in Windows too, when the
DVD is being accessed the system may lock up totally for a short while, and it feels
generally unresponsive at times... I also get errors in the Event Log relating to the
DVD..."

i too have experienced a 1second lockup upon inserting media into optical drive, but..huhm...what's the difference?
with it i wait 31 sec for drive to read it, without it i wait 30sec.
i mean how can i list that as "problem"?
problem is slowness of optical dirve upon inserting media...

oh yeah, my system also feels unresposive at times..esp. at times when opera or firefox were minimized for a long time and then i bring them to foreground...
but that would be the way windows works.
it puts that stuff to pagefiles, dumb assholes...
has half of ram free, but NOOO...they wanna use hdd instead...huh...
(but ok, with you it obviosuly something weird on the southbirdge...wether it's asus or intel(or jmicron ir silicon image..huh) fault remains to be seen...
i havel almost no doubts i would experience SOME sort of issues if i was to try raid on my mobo...so i just don't try it...i have better things to do than to fuck with raid..)

i use only pata drives...
on one channel primary hdd and one optical, and on via pci ata controller card i have another hdd and another optical drive.
given it's via i'm surprised it works at all...hehe...

also u use xp64 and it's a known fact it's not as mature as xp...drivers are less mature, overall lack of drivers etc.

in the end, why not just image the system drive and use external hdd to back up data every now and then...

if all the quirks are like this, then you know it doesn't bother remaining 99% of the poulation, as they don't have raid in the first place, and wouldn't notice 1sec lag on loading optical media...heh...

oh yeah, to mention my quirks: on 2k and p5k-v sometimes network connection is briefly interrupted, continues after that like it never happened...
but i usually find some nntp time lines in modem(adsl) logs
(like
01/07/2009 19:55:06 NTP Date/Time updated.
), so perhaps it's some sort of interaction between it and network adapter..something simillar happens on the laptop so i dunno if this is attansic network...adapter issue at all..(but i know it was not happening on old msi 6337 mobo with pci network card)
if it is asus issue, i don't care...it breaks perhaps once or twice in 24hrs, so who cares...
won't be calling asus for that.

and recently i was using external usb hdd to read and write to(at same time) some video, and hdd was choking with such errors in log
"Event Type: Warning
Event Source: Ftdisk
Event Category: None
Event ID: 50
Date: 31.12.2008
Time: 20:35:41
User: N/A
Computer: WINDOZ2000
Description:
{Lost Delayed-Write Data} The system was attempting to transfer file data from buffers to \Device\HarddiskVolume4. The write operation failed, and only some of the data may have been written to the file. "

i thought disk was about to die, so i copied it on another usb hdd via laptop, but i only established it happens when i want to both read and write to disk at same time...
and that is easy to avert, so...again, not a real problem at all...
and given it's a usb drive it probably has to do with that interface capabilities, the controller that's used in that usb tray... etc.

[Per Hansson]

Re: Best mobo brand?

Man i4004, I'm starting to get now why some people have problem with the way you write, I didn't see it before but now I do, I get about as angry as I do whenever Asus manages to reply to one of the support requests

"per, why didn't you just use ide mode if it worked?"
Because I wanted to use RAID5 mode on my Raptors, and because IDE mode is inferior, not supporting hotswap and NCQ
If I wanted only IDE mode I would buy an Asrock mobo for $40, not an Asus mobo for $200

"i too have experienced a 1second lockup upon inserting media into optical drive, but..huhm...what's the difference?"
Here you are assuming things, and talking degratory to me in the end of the rest of that sentence
The delay was about 30 seconds to one minute, it was however long the driver kept retrying before giving up, it was impossible to playback most DVD's etc without getting these errors

"oh yeah, my system also feels unresposive at times..esp. at times when opera or firefox were minimized for a long time and then i bring them to foreground... but that would be the way windows works."
The system was only feeling Unresponsive with the DVD drive in the system using RAID or AHCI mode, read the messages I wrote properly

"also u use xp64 and it's a known fact it's not as mature as xp...drivers are less mature, overall lack of drivers etc."
For the stuff I buy and use I make sure there are good drivers, again, what's the point?

"in the end, why not just image the system drive and use external hdd to back up data every now and then..."
Where did I say RAID is an excuse for normal backups?

"if all the quirks are like this, then you know it doesn't bother remaining 99% of the poulation, as they don't have raid in the first place, and wouldn't notice 1sec lag on loading optical media...heh..."
Again degratory assumptions

Now I don't want to quote all your long ramblings about the Network problem, but see it like this, if you are a gamer, and you get disconnected from the server due to network interruptions, this wont annoy you?
Or if you're a tech like me, connected to a Linux SSH server and get disconnected in the middle of a system configuration, this wont annoy you?

"and recently i was using external usb hdd to read and write to(at same time) some video, and hdd was choking with such errors in log {Lost Delayed-Write Data}"
Lost data is not an issue for you? Okay, you must be a very good customer indeed!

FYI this is your data issue; http://www.techspot.com/blog/224/slo...rver-2003-x64/

Thank you and have a nice day
Oh, send your CV to Asus, I'm sure you would fit straight in with the team!

[Scenic]

Re: Best mobo brand?

Oh, send your CV to Asus, I'm sure you would fit straight in with the team!

n1

[i4004]

Re: Best mobo brand?

beware:
"The text that you have entered is too long (10095 characters). Please shorten it to 10000 characters long."

yihhhhaaaa...will split it to 2 posts, then...can't cut anything, it's fuckin' excellent!



so, part1

Man i4004, I'm starting to get now why some people have problem with the way you write, I didn't see it before but now I do, I get about as angry as I do whenever Asus manages to reply to one of the support requests

meh...you're just angry because i asked a few questions(i asked because i don't know what exactly your problems were) and said most people are not affected by it.
not really a reason to get angry, is it?

yes, 2 people got annoyed by my stuff: one of them is linux freak(who gives linux answers to any windows user..heh), and another calls me moron when i'm trying to tell him how to capture vhs.
well..can't satisfy them all, can't you?
<wink>

now let's iron out our lil misunderstanding(i'm sure its nothing more):

"i too have experienced a 1second lockup upon inserting media into optical drive, but..huhm...what's the difference?"
Here you are assuming things, and talking degratory to me in the end of the rest of that sentence
The delay was about 30 seconds to one minute, it was however long the driver kept retrying before giving up, it was impossible to playback most DVD's etc without getting these errors

see, i never knew your lag was so big, and if i did i wouldn't ask about it...
and it's not derogatory(don't remind me of bgavin and see an insult where there's none...when i insult you you'll know it allright..)..i just said I have 1 sec lockup at times...if you had the same i would say you have no problem.

if the delay(extra time on top of what's usually needed to spin and read dvd) is 30sec to 1min, yes, indeed it's anoyying and i too would try something to fix it...
infact i would probably go to same extent as you did...
but i dunno would i ask asus at all, as i see them as people who assemble, not necessarily people who know what's going on underneath it all...heh

The system was only feeling Unresponsive with the DVD drive in the system using RAID or AHCI mode, read the messages I wrote properly

actually no, i couldn't derive that from this
"Sorry, I should have clarified that yes, I do have problems in Windows too, when the
DVD is being accessed the system may lock up totally for a short while, and it feels
generally unresponsive at times... "
how could i?

for me short lockup is 1sec(ie i don't know what you call "short" or "long").
30sec i would call helluva long lockup...

also, when you say it feels "unresponsive at times", i thought this is problem unrelated to dvd, ie it feels unresponsive at some other times, ie when you don't use dvd at all...
and i just tried to illustrate system can feel unresposive for big number of reasons...i mentioned way windows uses page file as one example

one more misunderstanding out of our way...

"also u use xp64 and it's a known fact it's not as mature as xp...drivers are less mature, overall lack of drivers etc."

For the stuff I buy and use I make sure there are good drivers, again, what's the point?

nothing much.
i just say xp64 is new, and drivers can be spotty...and that may even include intel written storage drivers...(or any other mfr for that matter)

"in the end, why not just image the system drive and use external hdd to back up data every now and then..."

Where did I say RAID is an excuse for normal backups?

i just wanted to say that i prefer backup to tinkering with raid.
in a form of "why do you use raid at all?".
but ok you don't need to answer that...in the end it's just my preference not to use raid...and mostly because setting it up is pita...
and because 2 drives cost 2 times...and because i think safest drive is one in the usb tray, esp. when it's turned of most os the time...ohh my...
anyway..discard what i just said...

"if all the quirks are like this, then you know it doesn't bother remaining 99% of the poulation, as they don't have raid in the first place, and wouldn't notice 1sec lag on loading optical media...heh..."

Again degratory assumptions

well, yeah, i assumed you had 1sec lag, because u said "short". kill me.
i'm guilty, i apologize for assuming you had a short lag and presuming you blowed it out of proportion.
you had a long lag that less power users(or any users, for that matter) would tolerate. me included.

that most don't use raid is a fact, and nothing directed against you.

Now I don't want to quote all your long ramblings about the Network problem, but see it like this, if you are a gamer, and you get disconnected from the server due to network interruptions, this wont annoy you?
Or if you're a tech like me, connected to a Linux SSH server and get disconnected in the middle of a system configuration, this wont annoy you?

not "long"(it was paragrah of some 10 lines) and not "rambling" as i was mentioning a quirk i ecountered with asus, in a same way you mentioned your problems, only i didn't mess up the formatting quite as much as you did with those emails...

if i was a gamer connected to some server and i was playing, yeah, i would probably be angry and same goes for that linux ssh server situation, whatever it means.

but i also said that for me it's not a problem at all...probably given that i don't game, and i don't use that linux server.

i used the example just to illustrate there are small anoyances, and there are bigger..
if it's something small and irrelevant i don't mind.
that is in accordance to thing i said about most people probably would never notice such issues.
offcourse, that doesn't say nobody will notice it, and that it doesn't need to be fixed.
offcourse it should get fixed, 30sec-1min lag is a real issue.
i always say we're waiting for pcs too much as is...

if i was gaming, yeah network issue WOULD be problem and i would try things to fix it, indeed.

so no disagreement there at all.

"and recently i was using external usb hdd to read and write to(at same time) some video, and hdd was choking with such errors in log {Lost Delayed-Write Data}"

Lost data is not an issue for you? Okay, you must be a very good customer indeed!

and now you're doing the assumptions.
why do you think i lost anything?
did i say it?

hdd was choking indeed, but i didn't lost a single file(or part of file)..i just redid the files that were partially written to the disk(ie source video files were not damaged, what was mangled was one file that was being written...)
ie i erased partially written corrupt file, and made new one...without any data loss because i don't erase the source video files prior to seeing target files are ok.
these are typically video files i capture(source) and then edit out the commercials(target).

FYI this is your data issue; http://www.techspot.com/blog/224/sl...erver-2003-x64/

how come?
i use 2k(which i mentioned above) and you say
"After a reboot the system felt just as responsive as Windows 2000 again when copying large files!"
in that article.

but again, workaround is easy, to nothing for me to fix.
i just use external hdd as source or target not both at same time, and that's easy to do, so...

there is alltogether different issue with windows being slower to response when copying bigger files(no, not errors while copying them) ie when hdds are used to the max(offcourse depending on the hdd config etc.) but that is a deeper issue that reg- hacks won't really solve.
it's just what happens because win is relying so much on the hdd(like the above mentioned example of keeping opera or firefox in the background and then experiencing big lag), and that is design flaw.

[i4004]

Re: Best mobo brand?

part2

Oh, send your CV to Asus, I'm sure you would fit straight in with the team!

oh, you could do without that remark, i'm positive, but now you did, i have one of my own too (told you you'll know..<wink>) :

you talk to people in this

Oh for fucks sake, I'm telling you the BIOS is having difficulties identifying the drive!

And I take it then you're saying Windows is an unsupported OS?

Some good support from this company I must say!

manner and wonder when they're slow to respond?

you're obviously young. but you'll quickly(probably already did) learn what you can expect from support, and what you can't.

(ie if dfi had same issue do you think they would be able to fix it? even if it was driver or os issue?(you yourself post tweaks to fix windows issues so you're well aware problems exist)).



i wouldn't contact them because by now i know what to expect and informing them of such problems can only waste your time, they won't be able to figure it out, like i said above, think of them as people who put different components together, not as people who actually make them....

and yeah, sometimes such way of doing business can be rather problematic: you have many different mfrs(for different components of the board), and not enough time is devoted to testing how different pieces of hardware play one with another.



so the issues you had are not _that_ surprising at all.

again, if you want better chances of working hardware and surely better support you should probably go for intel next time.

OR, do your homework better next time, and see if you can find(on the web) reports on the hardware and config you wanna make...does it go together well?

or there are issues?



yes, it's kinda sad such things happen in 2008, but there will always be SOME compatibility issues. systems are too complex for everything to perfectly fit.



so i wouldn't put TOO much blame on asus, as same can go for any taiwanese mfr.

and YES, the should be doing it more like intel(which isn't perfect either..heh) but it seems that won't happen, so in the end we have same choice:



more functions, but setup can be itchy...(taiwan)

or

less functions, more stable setup, better stability...(intel)





thanks for your asnwers, and chill down.

nobody is out to get you, except those nasty people at asus support at which you swore...

<wink>



ps/ 30sec lag is not "short"

[RJARRRPCGP]

Re: Best mobo brand?

It didn't admitted using bad caps on later Socket 462 and early P4 boards and I suspect cheaper Asus boards are manifactured from other OEMs (hint: some boards are stripped down versions of full featured models like the A7V8X-X was a cheaper A7V8X,

It appears that the Asus A7V8X-X was just a version that had only some features removed and may be newer than the A7V8X.

[acstech]

Re: Best mobo brand?

Intel isn't the be-all and end-all of stabiltiy. I've built *many* AMD based systems over the years, and most have worked well. The ones that didn't either had Antec PSU's, or Asus boards. Two things I've learned not to use right there.

Stability is obtained through complete system design, not just on the board manufacturer. You could use the best components available, but if you f*** it up with a crappy power supply, it will be unstable. Everything needs to be good for the system to be stable.

There was the old Nforce 4 data corruption issue. In the time I was running it, I never had an issue with my personal system, based on an Asus A8N-E. However, a customer did. Their environment was a bit dustier than mine was, and the chipset fan clogged up and stopped. Chipset overheated. I replaced the heatsink and fan on it, but even cooled down the issues continued. I replaced the board (with mine) and issues went away. I think with those, once the chipset overheats, it's permanantly damaged. AMD's fault? No. Nvidia's fault? No. Asus's fault? Yes. They designed the dumb thing. My fault? Yes. I was ignorant enough to buy it.

Later I bought an M2N-E for my parents. At stock clock speeds, it would randomly crash. They used a heatpipe system between the different chipset chips on the motherboard. On what I would consider the southbridge, they put this stupid little block with no fins and one skinny heatpipe coming out of it. Asus design all the way. I touched that block right after it crashed and it about burned my finger. After using thermal glue and adding a real heatsink and fan stability issues went away.

That's when I stopped using Asus and went to Biostar. I've built so many AMD systems with them it's not funny. Many, many systems with the TF7025-M2 and some with the more reasonably priced GF7025-M2. Most are overclocked, and all work flawlessly. Customers always comment on how fast and smooth the system operates. Well, there's a reason. Fast ram with low latencies, fairly quick hard drives, and stable components. I've also lately built Intel systems with Biostar, and all have worked great.

The key to a stable system is not whether it's an AMD or Intel platform, no. The key is to not use shitty components.

[Per Hansson]

Re: Best mobo brand?

In light of my harsh reply to them being the eight (8) one in a row where they still had not managed to really come to any conclusion except this;

>Dear Valued ASUS Customer!
>
>As long as the SATA optical drives are functional in the BIOS, the motherboard
>functions normally, if Windows does not work, we cannot support that, since we did
>not installed it on your computer.
>
>Best Regards,
>
>ASUS TMSS Support

I do not see it as very harsh, since they are pretty much saying that Windows is an unsupported system in a way

"i didn't mess up the formatting quite as much as you did with those emails..."
You can take up that with your pals at Asus, it's their fine "vip" support system fucking up the formatting
Ohh, and I'm not sure I'd call your formatting the most ace I've read ever either

"the system just hangs for ca 15 seconds"
That's in my first mail to them, and a few upstream also, missed that part maybe now did you? (Yea, I could have worded myself better, then again English ain't my native language so I don't really feel ashamed)

"i just say xp64 is new"
Umm, hasn't it been out for like atleast 4 years now?

"{Lost Delayed-Write Data}"
Yea, I assumed you lost data, so sorry I was making assumptions
I'll try to better myself
And yea, I assumed you used XP x64, it's something I just got in my head, sorry, so article was not relevant

"again, if you want better chances of working hardware and surely better support you should probably go for intel next time."
The mobo has a Intel north and southbridge
Marvell NIC, the NIC works fine
The Intel ICH9 and 10 RAID do not
No, it's not really Asus fault and I know so aswell, tho for them to fix the issue I must bring it to their attention (they actually did fix the problem with my LSI 8704ELP RAID controller in a BIOS update after me reporting that (it's the first time they manage to fix something I've whined about))

"OR, do your homework better next time"
Yea, that would have made me conclude to not buy a mobo with Intel ICH RAID controller, since it has these issues

"again, if you want better chances of working hardware and surely better support you should probably go for intel next time."
So that would not help

You have a fine day now