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    Recapped mobo effecting RAM?

    Hi guys,

    Hoping someone here can help.

    I had a computer with visibly bulging caps around the CPU. This was on a VIA P4PB 400.

    The Caps I replaced were 8 x GSC 2200uf 6.3v. After replacing these I tested the PC, the computer ran for two days without any problem. (Before it was rebooting every 60 minutes).

    I then was asked to upgrade the RAM from 512Mb to 2gig. I ordered the correct Kingston Memory for the PC in 2 x 1Gig sticks, and with ESD precautions put it in.

    Now heres where it got interesting - with the new RAM in it reboots just before the win xp welcome screen. Memtest showed the RAM was bad so i RMA'd it and got new RAM - but got the same fault!

    Given the chances of bad RAM twice in a row are very low, I am wondering if some of the other caps are bad?

    There are some other electrolytic ones around the CPU that visually look ok (GSC 1000uf 6.3v, GSC 1000uf 10v and GSC 1000uf 16v).

    Can anyone comment on wether I am frying this RAM? If so why is it happening to the 2x1Gig sticks but not the 2x512 sticks?

    Cheers

    -Al

    #2
    Re: Recapped mobo effecting RAM?

    replace all gsc.
    what is happening is the caps on vdimm are marginal.
    1 stick it gets by.
    2 the extra load causes unacceptable noise/ripple.

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Recapped mobo effecting RAM?

      You are probably not actually damaging the RAM, it is just getting bad, dirty, noisy power because of the GSC craps.
      Mann-Made Global Warming.
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        #4
        Re: Recapped mobo effecting RAM?

        >> You are probably not actually damaging the RAM, it is just getting bad, dirty, noisy power because of the GSC craps.

        I think you are quite right about that! I put the RAM into my computer and it passed memtest, so the RAM itself it not damaged!

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Recapped mobo effecting RAM?

          Originally posted by kc8adu
          replace all gsc.
          what is happening is the caps on vdimm are marginal.
          1 stick it gets by.
          2 the extra load causes unacceptable noise/ripple.
          Yeah, that would sound about right. I am slowly but surely replacing all the electrolytic caps on the whole motherboard!

          I will post a photo, can you ID which caps are effecting the RAM?



          The green ones i have replaced. The red ones I have not replaced because I ran out of 1000uf 16v caps.

          I replaced the 3 1000uf 16v next to the RAM module first because I thought it might be enough to get it to load windows - but alas no!!

          FWIW the 512Mb is two sticks of 256, so its not a increase in sticks per se.

          -Al

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Recapped mobo effecting RAM?

            Hmmm. I don't think all the red caps run off a 12V line. The only thing that gets 12V on a motherboard is the AGP slot (that is as far as I know). It would probably be safer to replace them with 16V caps, however most likely you can get away with 6.3V caps for at least most of them.

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Recapped mobo effecting RAM?

              At the risk of sounding too cynical, I'd be concerned about the VIA chipset handling 2x 1GB memory modules. I don't think VIA leaves much margin in their specs, and you're right on the edge of them here. If the PSU/board aren't in optimal condition you've got a good chance of finding stability problems. Hopefully a more complete recap will fix it, but you might also be looking at a PSU limitation. Are your voltages looking okay in the BIOS? Adding heavier ram can drag the voltages down.

              Does a single 1GB work okay? Maybe you'll have better luck with 1.25-1.5GB total (using the old 256's).

              It's too bad VIA chipsets don't support registered memory, because that can be a good fix for load issues like this.

              Whatever you work out, to validate the fix make sure you run memtest86 for a few laps. Otherwise it might seem to work but you'll get occasional BSODs in the future.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Recapped mobo effecting RAM?

                12v -> ISA, AGP, PCI, PCI-X, Fan headers, On a P4 board the processor.
                (I don't know which AMD made the switch to the 12v power rail.)
                Mann-Made Global Warming.
                - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                -
                Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                - Dr Seuss
                -
                You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                -

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Recapped mobo effecting RAM?

                  I recapped the whole mobo. Stable as now!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Recapped mobo effecting RAM?

                    Arrrrgh. I spoke too soon.

                    Initally it presented with 1 hourly reboots. Replacing the first set of caps fixed that, but when I went to upgrade the ram to 2gig I got the read/write memory errors.

                    So I replaced every electrolytic on the board.

                    It ran fine on the bench, memtest ok for 17 hours. I rebooted it several times and it was ok each time.

                    But when I started to put all the other cards in like modem and network it started either rebooting before windows screen or still comeing up with can not read / write to memory errors.

                    Initally it presented with 1 hourly reboots. Replacing the first set of caps fixed it, but now after repacing every electrolytic on the mobo the

                    Any other ideas? I am gonna try a new enermax PSU.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Recapped mobo effecting RAM?

                      Originally posted by BigAlNZ
                      Arrrrgh. I spoke too soon.

                      Initally it presented with 1 hourly reboots. Replacing the first set of caps fixed that, but when I went to upgrade the ram to 2gig I got the read/write memory errors.

                      So I replaced every electrolytic on the board.

                      It ran fine on the bench, memtest ok for 17 hours. I rebooted it several times and it was ok each time.

                      But when I started to put all the other cards in like modem and network it started either rebooting before windows screen or still comeing up with can not read / write to memory errors.

                      Initally it presented with 1 hourly reboots. Replacing the first set of caps fixed it, but now after repacing every electrolytic on the mobo the

                      Any other ideas? I am gonna try a new enermax PSU.
                      Trying out a new PSU is what I would do, low-quality PSUs can cause reboots and other problems. There may be bad capacitors or other faults in the current power supply you're using.
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                        #12
                        Re: Recapped mobo effecting RAM?

                        i would bet on a bad psu or a damaged card causing your problem.
                        open the psu and have a look.
                        better yet post pics.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Recapped mobo effecting RAM?

                          Vote 3 for change out the PSU.
                          And look at those cards too since they're out.
                          Mann-Made Global Warming.
                          - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                          -
                          Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                          - Dr Seuss
                          -
                          You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                          -

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Recapped mobo effecting RAM?

                            Enermax 420W or so be here tomorrow. Let ya know.

                            One more interesting thing is that the rear/write to memory errors happen when I go to shut it down. I let it get to the welcome screen where you click on a user, instead of logging on I click shutdown - thats when you get the read/write memory error.

                            Also it says instruction at <address> cannot reference memory at 0x00000000. Is 0x00000000 a valid address?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Recapped mobo effecting RAM?

                              Well I have tried the new PSU and something still "aint right".

                              It seems to boot ok, but while idle in windows it is regularly coming up with "Windows has recovered from a serious error".

                              And If I boot to the welcome screen but dont logon, and just click shutdown I get the memory cannot be read errors as above.

                              Tried two lots of RAM in varying slots too! No diff.

                              I give up!

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Re: Recapped mobo effecting RAM?

                                For system/memory testing and/or burn-in, try using the Memtest option on the Ubuntu Linux Live CD. I wouldn't trust Windoze crashware/malware for a system test.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Re: Recapped mobo effecting RAM?

                                  Well I just used one stick of 1Gig rather than 2x1Gig, and it seems stable....so far. Problems seem to occur when you use more than 1 stick?

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Re: Recapped mobo effecting RAM?

                                    Have you considered / tried a BIOS update? They usually fix CPU / RAM compatibility problems (if/when they get fixed). It just might work for you.
                                    Khron's Cave - Electronics - Audio - Teardowns - Mods - Repairs - Projects - Music - Rants - Shenanigans

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                                      #19
                                      Re: Recapped mobo effecting RAM?

                                      Also it says instruction at <address> cannot reference memory at 0x00000000. Is 0x00000000 a valid address?
                                      As far as I know that's valid - that's the beginning of memory. But I seriously doubt that the program was intended to read from address 0. Hardware might be to blame, but it could also just be a broken Windows install.


                                      When you get errors like
                                      "APP.EXE couldn't read from memory address 0xb1ab1ab1ab1ab1ab"
                                      it doesn't mean you have a hardware fault. It just means that Windows didn't allow the program to read/write to memory. A simple software bug can cause that - every program has a limited range of memory that it's allowed to use. If a program tries to access memory that it doesn't own, then Windows will block it, close the program, and display an error. Make a few mistakes while programming and you'll see that error a lot.

                                      This is partly a security feature, but it also keeps programs from crashing each other.
                                      The "couldn't read/write" message is reporting a software error - but glitchy hardware can (and does) indirectly cause it to happen.


                                      It ran fine on the bench, memtest ok for 17 hours. I rebooted it several times and it was ok each time.

                                      But when I started to put all the other cards in like modem and network it started either rebooting before windows screen or still comeing up with can not read / write to memory errors.
                                      Well I just used one stick of 1Gig rather than 2x1Gig, and it seems stable....so far. Problems seem to occur when you use more than 1 stick?
                                      Sounds like you definitely have a load related issue. As you've seen, you should do your stress testing with everything installed. In fact, I prefer to jack up the frontside bus by 3-5% when testing, to ensure there's some stability margin.

                                      As long as you're in doubt about stability, it's best to do your testing in a simple, nonvolatile environment like memtest86. If it passes that (with all your cards installed) then move on to an OS. It's safer to use a bootable CD like knoppix, so you aren't putting the Windows installation at risk. If you use Windows, try Prime95 torture test. Under a linux CD, you can use MPrime (if you know how to use the command line).
                                      One more test in Windows is to run one of those 3DMark tests in a continuous loop. This puts lots of stress on machines with 3D accelerators in them.
                                      I think the utility "Sandra" has a torture test as well.

                                      Windows can have problems for all sorts of reasons, and since it's on your hard drive it's corruptible. Once Windows is corrupted you could continue to have errors even with perfect hardware.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Re: Recapped mobo effecting RAM?

                                        I just dumped 2 VIA boards after stripping it of good capacitors. One was 775 with intermittent crashing/corrupting and other one was socket 462 (chipset got flaky when at running temp).

                                        Go with SiS or Intel. I am starting to find Nvidia works but their driver is jinked, once I have funds, I'll replace the nvidia 6150 motherboard with a intel and HD3650 (it is used to output 720 and 1080 to allow us to do complete convergence job on 3 CRT projectors (rear projection in one unit) at our TV shop.

                                        Reason I said this is that blasted software on 6150 have bad habit of inconsistently working or not doing anything or partially even I kept tapping the keyboard to switch, even rebooting etc. Even resorted to reload the driver again and another driver version. Not trusty and it refuses to output if the port is not plugged in as I tend to switch back and forth often and sometimes LCD monitor wont take the resolution even same set up worked before forcing a reboot or jumping through many loops. :P

                                        Even I had good relationship with VIA on other boards in past but that were all 462 but I did have some issues with stablity and one doesn't turn off every time I shut down. Even with PII or PIII intel chipset I have no problem with this which is odd so I think it is really the bios and chipset quality design than the windows itself.

                                        Cheers, Wizard
                                        Last edited by Wizard; 04-04-2008, 06:08 PM.

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