Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Instability issue with recapped SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 v1.0 Black Label

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Instability issue with recapped SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 v1.0 Black Label

    I currently own the SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 v1.0 Black Label motherboard, which has been working since 2004, until recently. The system began to power off by itself. I suspected the 400 watt PSU and purchased a new PSU i.e. ULTRA 600 watt PSU. I connected the new PSU and after a couple of power cycles I heard a pop and a burned smell in the PC case.

    I looked at the motherboard and the 2200uf capacitor appeared to be bad. All the capacitors were SACON.

    I replaced the following SACON with Rubycon capacitors.

    7 - 2200uF 6.3v
    7 - 1500uF 16v
    15 - 1000uF 10v
    7 - 470uF 16v

    After checking my solder joints I powered up the system, with CPU, memory, video card, keyboard/mouse. After resetting the CMOS, I successfully was able to get into the BIOS.

    I was monitored the PC Health Status, and the voltages appeared to be OK.

    After sometime, the screen goes blank but all the fans are running. I checked the BIOS setting to make sure it was not going into “sleep” mode. So the motherboard is POSTing, but eventually shuts down with all the fans still running. I decided to remove and resolder the 2200uF and 1500uF capacitors in case I had some bad solder joints. The mother still is POSTing and I'm able to get into the BIOS, but the motherboard shuts down with all fans still running.

    After spending time on this, I noticed that Q14 – NTD80N02 and Q13 – NTD60N02R (ON Semiconductor) are HOT, and U17 and U15 – HIP6602B (Intersil) are also HOT.

    Is it possible that both MOSFETs are no good, resulting in the instability I am observing? Should I replace the MOSFETs? Anybody else encore a similar problem after recapping?

    I appreciate any help and guidance you can provide.

    #2
    Re: Instability issue with recapped SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 v1.0 Black Label

    What rubycon series did you use? If you used the wrong series caps, that could cause the problems you are describing. It doesn't sound like a mosfet problem. If the mosfets were bad, the PC usually won't even power on.
    I love putting bad caps and flat batteries in fire and watching them explode!!

    No wonder it doesn't work! You installed the jumper wires backwards

    Main PC: Core i7 3770K 3.5GHz, Gigabyte GA-Z77M-D3H-MVP, 8GB Kingston HyperX DDR3 1600, 240GB Intel 335 Series SSD, 750GB WD HDD, Sony Optiarc DVD RW, Palit nVidia GTX660 Ti, CoolerMaster N200 Case, Delta DPS-600MB 600W PSU, Hauppauge TV Tuner, Windows 7 Home Premium

    Office PC: HP ProLiant ML150 G3, 2x Xeon E5335 2GHz, 4GB DDR2 RAM, 120GB Intel 530 SSD, 2x 250GB HDD, 2x 450GB 15K SAS HDD in RAID 1, 1x 2TB HDD, nVidia 8400GS, Delta DPS-650BB 650W PSU, Windows 7 Pro

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Instability issue with recapped SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 v1.0 Black Label

      Originally posted by richr69 View Post
      I currently own the SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 v1.0 Black Label motherboard, which has been working since 2004, until recently. The system began to power off by itself. I suspected the 400 watt PSU and purchased a new PSU i.e. ULTRA 600 watt PSU. I connected the new PSU and after a couple of power cycles I heard a pop and a burned smell in the PC case.

      I looked at the motherboard and the 2200uf capacitor appeared to be bad. All the capacitors were SACON.

      I replaced the following SACON with Rubycon capacitors.

      7 - 2200uF 6.3v
      7 - 1500uF 16v
      15 - 1000uF 10v
      7 - 470uF 16v

      After checking my solder joints I powered up the system, with CPU, memory, video card, keyboard/mouse. After resetting the CMOS, I successfully was able to get into the BIOS.

      I was monitored the PC Health Status, and the voltages appeared to be OK.

      After sometime, the screen goes blank but all the fans are running. I checked the BIOS setting to make sure it was not going into “sleep” mode. So the motherboard is POSTing, but eventually shuts down with all the fans still running. I decided to remove and resolder the 2200uF and 1500uF capacitors in case I had some bad solder joints. The mother still is POSTing and I'm able to get into the BIOS, but the motherboard shuts down with all fans still running.

      After spending time on this, I noticed that Q14 – NTD80N02 and Q13 – NTD60N02R (ON Semiconductor) are HOT, and U17 and U15 – HIP6602B (Intersil) are also HOT.

      Is it possible that both MOSFETs are no good, resulting in the instability I am observing? Should I replace the MOSFETs? Anybody else encore a similar problem after recapping?

      I appreciate any help and guidance you can provide.
      Do you have the hard drive connected? If so does the machine boot into Windows or Linux before going black?

      Also check the voltage of your BIOS battery. Should be close to 3v, if not, replace

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Instability issue with recapped SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 v1.0 Black Label

        bigbeark and c_hegge, thanks for your replies.

        I used Rubycon MCZ caps. I had the minimum installed i.e. memory, video card, and CPU.

        I checked the battery and it measured 3.17v. I replaced it with one that measured 3.31v. I decided to install a spare CPU, memory and video card I had. This time I noticed that the BIOS page remained displayed for over 6 hrs. The U17 and U15 were still hot. I found it strange that the motherboard did not act up and it was simply the battery (so I thought). So now I decided to slowly start replacing the spare parts. I installed my original video card, and the BIOS remained displayed until I turned it off to install my original memory. The BIOS remained displayed for at least 3 hours. I had to step away for awhile, and when I came back I encountered my problem again i.e. blank screen with fans running. I decided to re-install the spare memory and video card I used previously (which resulted in the BIOS page remianing displayed for 6hrs), but nothing happens. The fans spin, but the BIOS does not boot anymore. I touched U17 and it no longer it hot, but U15 is still hot. So I think somthing got fried , either MOSFET(s) or one/both U15/U17. I did replace the CPU with a known working one, and still nothing. I was thinking as a last ditch effort to replace the drivers U15/U17 and possibly the MOSFET. Anybody have an ideas where I can purchase them or how to determine if the MOSFETs got fried?

        I really hate to dump the motherboard, but I don't think I have any other options (if I can not replace U15/U17 and MOSFETs). If anyone has any more suggestioins, I welcome them.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Instability issue with recapped SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 v1.0 Black Label

          I came across another motherboard (Biostar) which uses the PWM Controller ISL6556B (Intersil) and a 2 channel MOSFET driver ISL6614ACB (Intersil). My motherboard uses the same PWM Controller (U16) and two (U15/U17) 2 channel MOSFET driver HIP6602BCB (Intersil). The Biostar MB worked, so I decided to swap out the PWM controller to see if its causing me problems. The Biostar MB worked fine with no issues. My motherboard still had the same problem. Looking at the spec for ISL6614ACB its pin for pin compatible with HIP6602BCB. In fact, the HIP6602BCB spec suggests to use the ISL6614A for new designs. So I decided to remove one of the HIP6602BCB from my motherboard and replace it with the ISL6614ACB from the Biostar MB. The HIP6602BCB which was removed was now on the Biostar MB. Now the Biostar MB posted but eventually locked up now, resulting in similar issues I was having with my original MB. My original MB is now posting again and was stable for a good 2 hrs before I turned it off. However, the two driver chips (U15/U17), one HIP6602BCB and the other ISL6614ACB are still getting VERY hot. Sometimes its just one of them and so are some of the coils and caps.
          I decided to order two brand new HIP6602BCB from Newark and see what happens.

          Any thoughts on my latest experiments?

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Instability issue with recapped SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 v1.0 Black Label

            Check or replace the small lytic caps near PWM controllers for those MOSFETS.
            Also check around them for bad SMD resistors.
            .
            Mann-Made Global Warming.
            - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

            -
            Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

            - Dr Seuss
            -
            You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
            -

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Instability issue with recapped SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 v1.0 Black Label

              For that matter,,, I would at least replace all the Sacon 6mm or larger no matter what their uF is.
              .
              Mann-Made Global Warming.
              - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

              -
              Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

              - Dr Seuss
              -
              You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
              -

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Instability issue with recapped SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 v1.0 Black Label

                Thanks for the reply PCBONEZ.

                How does one determine the value of the small lytic caps (I do not see any obvious markings)?
                I'm assuming when you say check the SMD resistors and see if there bad, you mean to measure its resistance and see if they reflect the expected value - correct? Otherwise, how does one determine a dad resistor?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Instability issue with recapped SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 v1.0 Black Label

                  Originally posted by richr69 View Post
                  How does one determine the value of the small lytic caps (I do not see any obvious markings)?
                  The uF and volts should be written on them.
                  3x reading glasses, a dental mirror, and a small flashlight will help a lot.

                  QUOTE=richr69;122437]I'm assuming when you say check the SMD resistors and see if there bad, you mean to measure its resistance and see if they reflect the expected value - correct? Otherwise, how does one determine a dad resistor?[/QUOTE]
                  Correct

                  Can you post some photos of the affected areas of the board?

                  .
                  Mann-Made Global Warming.
                  - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                  -
                  Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                  - Dr Seuss
                  -
                  You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                  -

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Instability issue with recapped SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 v1.0 Black Label

                    U16 - PWM Controller ISL6556BCB (28 pin chip, upper right).

                    U15 - MOSFET Driver, originally HIP6602BCB, now ISL6614ACB (14 pin chip below U16).

                    U17 - MOSFET Driver HIP6602BCB (14 pin chip far left side).

                    MOSFETs from Left to Right below the 4 main inductors:
                    Q14 - NTD80N02
                    Q13 - NTD60N02R
                    Q12 - NTD80N02
                    Q11 - NTD60N02R
                    Q10 - NTD80N02
                    Q9 - NTD60N02R
                    Q8 - NTD80N02
                    Q7 - NTD60N02R

                    The four caps below the MOSFETs are 1500uF 16v Rubycon MCZ series.
                    Attached Files

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Instability issue with recapped SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 v1.0 Black Label

                      The small caps I was talking about are like the silver one below Q13 & Q14 in the photo.
                      The one in the picture is probably just for I/O [USB or PS2] but others can be critical as they are used in POL regulators for setting things like Vtt and Vref for various IC chips around the board.
                      The small caps rarely fail but they DO fail occasionally.
                      When they do go bad it becomes a mind bender because no one considers them when trouble shooting.

                      I have less confidence in the small caps on Soyo boards than in small caps in general.
                      On Soyo boards the Silver caps were custom ordered to make the boards 'pretty'.
                      Those Silver caps are crap.
                      They might be labeled OST, Capsun, GSC, Evercon, or Sacon but they all came from the same factory.
                      - The Silver caps with vents usually have an odd [rare] abnormality in the vent stamp and ALL the Silver caps on Soyo boards have it regardless of the brand marked on the cap.
                      - I believe they were actually made by Capsun who OEM's Lytic caps to other companies including GSC/Sacon/Evercon, but I can't prove it. The ones claiming to be OST 'might' [or might not] be approved by OST but they certainly weren't made by OST. 'Real' OST caps don't have the abnormality.

                      Specifically the abnormality is that the edge of the outer sleeve is pressed into the vent stamping indicating the vent was stamped -after- the sleeve was shrunk onto the can. [Cans sleeved -then- vent stamped.]
                      If you look at any other cap brand the sleeve is not pressed into the vent indicating cans are vent stamped -then- sleeved.

                      ~~

                      It may be a photo artifact but it looks like Q9 has a melted spot or a pit indicating internal damage.

                      You have a 4 Phase VRM which is 4 pairs of MOSFETS operating in parallel.
                      Q13 & Q14 may be getting hot, not because they have a problem, but because the other phases aren't taking their share of the load.
                      That could be because of blown MOSFETs in other phases.
                      Also, although HIP6602BCB and ISL6614ACB are supposed to be equivelent parts [taking your word on that] they probably don't have -identical- operating characteristics and that might be shifting load.

                      I would replace the other HIP6602BCB with a ISL6614ACB [or vice versa - make them the same] - and check -all- the other MOSFETs.

                      .
                      Mann-Made Global Warming.
                      - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                      -
                      Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                      - Dr Seuss
                      -
                      You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                      -

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Instability issue with recapped SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 v1.0 Black Label

                        Originally posted by PCBONEZ View Post
                        The small caps I was talking about are like the silver one below Q13 & Q14 in the photo.
                        The one in the picture is probably just for I/O [USB or PS2] but others can be critical as they are used in POL regulators for setting things like Vtt and Vref for various IC chips around the board.
                        The small caps rarely fail but they DO fail occasionally.
                        When they do go bad it becomes a mind bender because no one considers them when trouble shooting.

                        I have less confidence in the small caps on Soyo boards than in small caps in general.
                        On Soyo boards the Silver caps were custom ordered to make the boards 'pretty'.
                        Those Silver caps are crap.
                        They might be labeled OST, Capsun, GSC, Evercon, or Sacon but they all came from the same factory.
                        - The Silver caps with vents usually have an odd [rare] abnormality in the vent stamp and ALL the Silver caps on Soyo boards have it regardless of the brand marked on the cap.
                        - I believe they were actually made by Capsun who OEM's Lytic caps to other companies including GSC/Sacon/Evercon, but I can't prove it. The ones claiming to be OST 'might' [or might not] be approved by OST but they certainly weren't made by OST. 'Real' OST caps don't have the abnormality.

                        Specifically the abnormality is that the edge of the outer sleeve is pressed into the vent stamping indicating the vent was stamped -after- the sleeve was shrunk onto the can. [Cans sleeved -then- vent stamped.]
                        If you look at any other cap brand the sleeve is not pressed into the vent indicating cans are vent stamped -then- sleeved.
                        Yes, they are all SACON. I only replaced the ones I originally indicated at the beginning of the thread. But replacing all the other ones are also a possibility.
                        Originally posted by PCBONEZ View Post
                        ~~

                        It may be a photo artifact but it looks like Q9 has a melted spot or a pit indicating internal damage.
                        I looked at it under a magnifing glass, and it does appear to be a pit. I wonder if I took a picture of the motherboard when I first purchased it. Hmmm.

                        Originally posted by PCBONEZ View Post
                        You have a 4 Phase VRM which is 4 pairs of MOSFETS operating in parallel.
                        Q13 & Q14 may be getting hot, not because they have a problem, but because the other phases aren't taking their share of the load.
                        That could be because of blown MOSFETs in other phases.
                        Also, although HIP6602BCB and ISL6614ACB are supposed to be equivelent parts [taking your word on that] they probably don't have -identical- operating characteristics and that might be shifting load.

                        I would replace the other HIP6602BCB with a ISL6614ACB [or vice versa - make them the same] - and check -all- the other MOSFETs.

                        .
                        I have 2 new HIP6602BCB on order and will eventually install the new ones. In the mean time, I decided to desolder Q14 - Q17. The following MOSFETs appear to be bad, based on the MOSFET testing method described below.
                        Q11 (w/pit), Q9 - NTD60N02R: Source-to-Gate and Source-to_Drain always indicate a high reading. Did not get the expected results using the MOSFET testing method below.
                        Q10 - NTD80N02: Source-to-Gate and Source-to_Drain are shorted.

                        The method I used to test the MOSFETs were as follows:

                        1.) Connected the meter negative to the MOSFET's Source.
                        2.) Touched the meter positive to the MOSFETs Gate.
                        3.) Moved the meter positive to the Drain. (Expect a low reading)
                        The MOSFET's Gate capacitance has been charged up by the meter and the device is turned on.
                        4.) With the meter positive still connected to the drain, touched a finger between Source and Gate. (Expect a high reading)
                        The Gate is discharged through the finger and the meter resistance goes high, indicating a non-conducting device.


                        Any thoughts were I can get NTD60N02R. I have spare motherboard where I can remove the NTD80N02.

                        I hope this solves my problem.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Instability issue with recapped SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 v1.0 Black Label

                          .
                          Last edited by PCBONEZ; 09-03-2010, 06:43 PM.
                          Mann-Made Global Warming.
                          - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                          -
                          Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                          - Dr Seuss
                          -
                          You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                          -

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Instability issue with recapped SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 v1.0 Black Label

                            Last post - Thought I found some but the lead time was like 6 months.

                            I -think- NTD70N03R are more heavy duty and will work if you change all 4 but PLEASE ask someone else to confirm.
                            Cross referencing MOSFETs is not my forte.
                            I usually just junk boards with toasted MOSFETs if I can't find original spec parts on some other scrap board.

                            Mouser has some of those.

                            http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...08RZJOubhtI%3d

                            http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...glduUOc7wjI%3d

                            .
                            Last edited by PCBONEZ; 09-03-2010, 07:27 PM.
                            Mann-Made Global Warming.
                            - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                            -
                            Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                            - Dr Seuss
                            -
                            You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                            -

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Instability issue with recapped SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 v1.0 Black Label

                              Originally posted by PCBONEZ View Post
                              Last post - Thought I found some but the lead time was like 6 months.

                              I -think- NTD70N03R are more heavy duty and will work if you change all 4 but PLEASE ask someone else to confirm.
                              Cross referencing MOSFETs is not my forte.
                              I usually just junk boards with toasted MOSFETs if I can't find original spec parts on some other scrap board.

                              Mouser has some of those.

                              http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...08RZJOubhtI%3d

                              http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...glduUOc7wjI%3d

                              .
                              Thanks for all your help and suggestions.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Re: Instability issue with recapped SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 v1.0 Black Label

                                If he doesn't wander in then send Toasty a PM about the cross reference.
                                https://www.badcaps.net/forum/member.php?u=4727
                                He seems to know transistors well. [Better than I do anyway..]
                                .
                                Mann-Made Global Warming.
                                - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                                -
                                Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                                - Dr Seuss
                                -
                                You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                                -

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Re: Instability issue with recapped SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 v1.0 Black Label

                                  Hola!

                                  Got your PM. PCBONEZ cross ref is correct. Comparing the 2, the 70n is compatible, higher power, and a tad faster.

                                  If you register at onsemi.com, you can buy both direct. Just be prepared for a marketing call from sales.

                                  I'd order extras for 2 reasons:
                                  1) in case these go *poof* or you kill them on install
                                  2) On takes the order more seriously and doesn't think you're a poof

                                  They'll whack you for state tax and ~$8 UPS. They have 2,000+ of the 60n (38¢) and 66 of the 80n (52¢).

                                  Welcome to the forums!
                                  Toast
                                  veritas odium parit

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Re: Instability issue with recapped SOYO SY-P4I875P Dragon 2 v1.0 Black Label

                                    Originally posted by Toasty View Post
                                    Hola!

                                    Got your PM. PCBONEZ cross ref is correct. Comparing the 2, the 70n is compatible, higher power, and a tad faster.

                                    If you register at onsemi.com, you can buy both direct. Just be prepared for a marketing call from sales.

                                    I'd order extras for 2 reasons:
                                    1) in case these go *poof* or you kill them on install
                                    2) On takes the order more seriously and doesn't think you're a poof

                                    They'll whack you for state tax and ~$8 UPS. They have 2,000+ of the 60n (38¢) and 66 of the 80n (52¢).

                                    Welcome to the forums!
                                    Toast
                                    Toasty, thanks for the quick reply and your help. This is a great forum and a valueable resource. I think I'm going to do some ordering now, and hopefully my motherboard problem will be complete.

                                    Comment

                                    Working...
                                    X