getting quote together for rack build

[PCBONEZ]

Re: getting quote together for rack build

the 3.3 & 5 is 160 total

the c2d 8400 is 65w.

so 65 * 1.5 / 12 = ~8.125?

8.125 amps on +12v rail.

Some of those old P3 based 300 watt PSU s [including redundant] only have like 10 amps on +12v which isn't enough after the CPU to [safely] run more than one hard drive and a few fans.
.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: getting quote together for rack build

Is this true? They stopped making KZG and KZJ?

Dropped from catalog.
http://www.chemi-con.co.jp/e/catalog...m_diagram.html

[Uranium-235]

Re: getting quote together for rack build

so that PSU has 11A on the 12v rail. I already looked it up on intels site and they mentioned 8A continuous and 13A peak on the 12V2, which in this case I think has a seperate rail on this PSU

[PCBONEZ]

Re: getting quote together for rack build

Yes if one of the rails is -dedicated- to the CPU then the other 12v loads don't matter on that rail.

The peak really only comes into play when you first kick it on and caps are charging which is around 50 milliseconds.
A -server- PSU [from a decent brand] that says 11A should handle it.
Their label ratings aren't BS like the gutless wonders in the consumer market.
The 11A on a server PSU's label is generally the continuous rating.
[That might not be true with the crap brands like Athena and iStar.]
.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: getting quote together for rack build

You are aware that if the site is connected to only one grid the redundant PSU only protects against PSU and UPS failures?

And if they are both on the same UPS it's only protecting against PSU failure.

- Just sayin'. - Might not be worth it.
Ultimately it depends on the customer's needs and expatiations though.

I don't use redundant on my own stuff because I'm not willing to double up on UPS units [and thus battery replacement costs].
- And although I'd be pissed for having to do it, [say] an hour of down time to swap a PSU isn't really going to kill me.
It's a lot cheaper to just get a reliable single PSU and have a spare handy to swap in should something happen.
I mean, it's not like you have redundant mobos or redundant RAID cards.
If you have a GOOD PSU I wouldn't worry it any more than a RAID card or a mobo.
.

Are these servers going on customer's site or to a server farm somewhere?
Who will maintain them once built?
You or do they have an IT guy on-site?
.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: getting quote together for rack build

[ Redirected from PM because others might be interested.
[ Discussion refers to this:
[ http://www.centrix-intl.com/details.asp?productid=4675

I was suggesting those would be good if you were building a 'dumb' file storage server like a NAS or a system to run periodic back-ups to through the LAN.
-
If a server is legitimately JUST a storage server and it has a hardware RAID card then all the CPU does is a little bit of access security and move files between the hard drives and the network.
A single P3 could do that without breaking a sweat.
-
The 2GHz Sossamans are dual core Yonahs.
[More or less 'enhanced' Pentium M's gone dual core.]
They can't do 64-bit but a file server doesn't need that anyway.
Their TDP is only 31 watts and they have Speed-Step so they won't use much power even in a 24/7 situation.
-
The board already has two on-board Gbit LAN interfaces.
Don't need a slot for that.
-
It has one each PCI-X and PCI-E slots.
-
Right now hardware PCI-E RAID cards are quite expensive but you can pick up hardware PCI-X cards fairly cheap.
I've picked up a few 12 Port 3Ware 9550 series for around $100.
8-ports are like $70-80 and 4-ports like $30-40.
-
Later on when PCI-E cards are cheaper you already have a PCI-E slot there for a RAID card upgrade or to simply add another card.
-
It also uses regular DDR2 Registered RAM instead of the more expensive Fully Buffered type.
-
It's a GREAT board for that specific purpose.
If they fit in standard ATX cases I'd be loading up on them and selling pre-built NAS systems.
-
[Was asked]
The heatsink setup [and CPU location] looks like standard socket 771 to me.
[Which is the same as the later version of socket 604 layout.]
They do that to fit standard server chassis' which have that hole pattern.
The cheaper Aluminum heatsinks [vice copper] would be fine as the CPU's are only 31 watts.
Look for the Intel OEM units. More than adequate and they go cheap sometimes.
.

I think with what you are setting up I would look for a socket 771 and use the Xeon 5148's [40 watts TDP] which are comparable to C2D E6550 and can be had for $20.
You could use one or two CPU's based on how hard the server will be worked.
-
If you want more bang out the gate then look at the Xeon L5320 Quad [50 watts TDP], They sometimes go for around $75

Boards can be found for $100-150 fairly often.
-
They need Fully Buffered RAM which -sometimes- isn't so expensive.
Kingston KVR667D2D4F5__ is my first choice.
Second is HP branded Samsung.
[Examples: M395T2953CZ4, M395T2953EZ4, M395T2953GZ4][Difference is just PCB revision.]
-
The HP branded stuff is good RAM but people shy away because they think it's proprietary - so it tends to be cheaper. [It isn't proprietary.] - Also some people don't like Samsung RAM but socket 771 boards seem to like it.
-
Also these boards have a two tiered arrangement for the RAM to MCH interface which is sort of Dual-Dual Channels. To take advantage of that spread out the RAM in the slots so you use all the 'lines' to the memory controller and that will improve memory bandwidth. [For example if you need 4GB then use 4x1GB vice 2x2Gb.]
.

Good boards to look for are Intel S5000xxx or Supermicro X7Dxxx
There are others too.
.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: getting quote together for rack build

BTW:

E8400
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?...00+%40+3.00GHz

Single E5320 [same performance as L5320 but the L is low volts]
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?...20+%40+1.86GHz

Almost exactly comparable performance.
But - with a socket 771 board you'd have an open CPU socket for an easy upgrade later.
- And the L5320 TDP is only 50 watts. Less power and less heat in the chassis.
.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: getting quote together for rack build

These are all Buy it now. - You could do better if you had the time.

$225 for two Xeon boards.
http://cgi.ebay.com/170637252505

$136 for two quad Xeons [one for each mobo]
http://cgi.ebay.com/320699898354
-or-
Around $70 for 4x Dual Cores [or $35 for two]
http://cgi.ebay.com/180666449825

$140 for 8GB FB RAM [4GB for each mobo]
http://cgi.ebay.com/170631460946

-
Total $200-$250 [each] for Board, CPU, & 4GB RAM depending on which way you go.

-
Can you tell I'm avoiding work today?
.

[Uranium-235]

Re: getting quote together for rack build

wow, you must be bored

I know a redundant PSU only protects against PSU failure, but I need them to have a much uptime as I can, especially since one is a pbx. But them again, i've always been a fan of the thermaltake TR2 430

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817153023

i've used that power supply on so many mid range gaming systems, on some it seems like it would draw more then 430W and have yet to have a single one die. but the earthwatts 430 is looking better and better

i would like to have a new board, not a used one, of course i'll burn it in before it goes to the customer, but new 771 boards are expensive

is istarusa really crap? they make a lot of redundant PSU's and some on newegg have good ratings, and some have terrible ratings

I don't need that much ram, only like a gig for each system. a 1gig fb stick of 667 from newegg is $38

one thing I just realized is the case i'm getting might not come with rails. some reviews said newegg threw in some rails, but some did not. hmm

[dood]

Re: getting quote together for rack build

Antec has long since been out of my vote.... I don't care if they're good now or not.. they lost my trust.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: getting quote together for rack build

The Supermicro C2Sxxx mobos are great boards but they have issues with KVM's and so not the best choice for a server room situation where a KVM is required.
Will work fine as long as they each have their own private keyboard and mouse.
(I've had a few, they are great boards as long as you don't need a KVM.)

When the DDR*3* C2Sxxx boards first came out I saw a number of bad reviews so I stayed clear of them. I dunno if they fixed whatever it was in newer models or not.
.

[Wizard]

Re: getting quote together for rack build

PCBONEZ, What you have done!? You did remarkably better than I did on research because there is so many CPUs and boards to check on prices. If you are willing, post here how you did this, or PM me.

Cheers, Wizard

[PCBONEZ]

Re: getting quote together for rack build

PCBONEZ, What you have done!? You did remarkably better than I did on research because there is so many CPUs and boards to check on prices. If you are willing, post here how you did this, or PM me.

Cheers, Wizard

I'm not exactly sure what you are asking me.
.
I have a list of choice parts I look for about once a week.
And I research the snot out of things looking for cheaper or better ways to do things before it goes on the list.
- If that answers the question..

I'm the geek version of a shopaholic...
.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: getting quote together for rack build

i would like to have a new board, not a used one, of course i'll burn it in before it goes to the customer, but new 771 boards are expensive

When you have ready spares on the shelf all set up to drop-in you are going MUCH further towards ensuring your client's up-time than you are with a redundant PSU simply because the down-time to find a compatible mobo and replace it is MUCH more than to find a PSU.
In fact availability at the time of failure my force you to build on a completely different mobo and go through all the software reinstalls.
When you can get 2 or 3 used ones for the cost of one new one you can be set up with ready spares that you can have installed the same day.
- And there is no reason you can't burn in a used one.

Were I in your shoes for this project I would buy all 4 of this one and have two spares.
http://cgi.ebay.com/170637252505
They are to support the client.
The client is paying for them.
If the client ever goes away [or upgrades] there a 99% chance they'll forget about the spares in your closet and you can resell them.

You could do the same thing buying a new one for a spare but to me THAT's the expensive route.

wow, you must be bored

The coffee pot broke and the spare [an old perculator I've had since college] tripped the breaker.
Bad morning - I was on strike.
No coffee, no workee, that's just how it is...

is istarusa really crap?

Fuhjyyu, Capxon, OST, JPCE-TUR ... need I say more?

I don't need that much ram, only like a gig for each system. a 1gig fb stick of 667 from newegg is $38

An E8400 with only 1GB RAM sounds like a really big mis-match.
The CPU and it's cache will spend most of it's time waiting.
-
A fast CPU just means the CPU will be faster to get to the point where it's waiting on the RAM.
[again]A fast CPU just means the CPU will be faster to get to the point where it's waiting.
-
The bottle-neck is the 'connection' between the RAM and the CPU.
On the RAM side of the MCH using 4 ram slots vs 1 is similar to going from PCI-E 1x to 4x.
More data paths.
It's a little more complicated than that but I think you get the idea.
-
You would probably get better performance with an E8190 CPU and more RAM.

[In general]
After about 2GHz CPU clock speed look at CPU cache and FSB speed.
Those numbers will help more than more CPU clocks.
CPU clocks does help, but not as much as more cache or FSB speed.
.

[Uranium-235]

Re: getting quote together for rack build

unfortunietly there are only 4 of those boards left, and by the time the quote gets to the client, and get money from the client, there will probably be none, but I see the same boards on ebay for about the same price total ($119 + free shipping, etc)

what do you think of athena power PSU's? this board requires minimum EPS 2.92, which has a 4 and 8 CPU connector, and you can't get that from earthwatts. Athena power has some nice compatible 2.92's on newegg, with some good ratings too

[smason]

Re: getting quote together for rack build

I don't use redundant on my own stuff because I'm not willing to double up on UPS units [and thus battery replacement costs]..

Whenever I have a site with only 1 UPS, I connect one redundant supply to it, and the other directly to power (preferrably on a separate circuit from the one the UPS is on.
If power fails, one power supply is still powered by the UPS and the systems will do a graceful shutdown after a few minutes. If a UPS fails (and they do) the power supply connected directly to power will keep things up, and the systems will email me that one power supply isn't on.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: getting quote together for rack build

unfortunietly there are only 4 of those boards left, and by the time the quote gets to the client, and get money from the client, there will probably be none, but I see the same boards on ebay for about the same price total ($119 + free shipping, etc)

what do you think of athena power PSU's? this board requires minimum EPS 2.92, which has a 4 and 8 CPU connector, and you can't get that from earthwatts. Athena power has some nice compatible 2.92's on newegg, with some good ratings too

The 650 watt has 3 +12v rails and the connectors.
That's what I use when I need a quite server.
.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: getting quote together for rack build

Whenever I have a site with only 1 UPS, I connect one redundant supply to it, and the other directly to power (preferrably on a separate circuit from the one the UPS is on.
If power fails, one power supply is still powered by the UPS and the systems will do a graceful shutdown after a few minutes. If a UPS fails (and they do) the power supply connected directly to power will keep things up, and the systems will email me that one power supply isn't on.

That's a really good idea!

Although, we have a 'lightening season' here.
I'd at least want a surge protector on the UPS-Bypass side.
.

[Uranium-235]

Re: getting quote together for rack build

most servers aren't quiet cause of the fans inside them, not always the power supply fan, my poweredge 1800 is proof of that

I looked at the earthwatts and it says it only has a 4+4 CPU power connector, no 8 and 4

[PCBONEZ]

Re: getting quote together for rack build

Well, I have several of them here and I even double checked one before I posted.
They have the connectors. - On the 650 watt, presumably on the 750 watt, but not on the 500 watt and down.

I occasionally find dual skt 771 boards with std ATX footprint.
I use them and a standard ATX case to build servers that are quite enough to keep in an office space without driving the occupants nuts.
That's part of why I'm so familiar with the CPUs with low TDPs.
.