Asus P4SD-LA ver 1.06

[junktv]

Hey guys I was hoping you could help me out. My old motherboard has some blown caps and I wanted to freshen it up. I don't know what new caps to get or if others should be replaced that aren't blown and no esr meter to test with.

I figure the 7 KZG 1800uf 6.3v 8x20mm caps should be replaced.

How about the yellow 820uf 2.5v caps? Not sure what they are. Has M above 35117 and 55-105c and are 8.5x12mm.

What you you guys think?

[junktv]

Re: Asus P4SD-LA ver 1.06

Did kzg's change? These look different. https://www.digikey.com/product-deta...676-ND/3655949

[ChaosLegionnaire]

Re: Asus P4SD-LA ver 1.06

in the early years when it first came out, they used a blue/silver sleeve i guess? then they changed to the rust brown sleeve we see today. kzgs on my amd s939 board (circa 2004-2005) all had rust brown sleeves. guess they changed it to match the crud we see oozing from failed kzgs. how "fashionable" of chemicon to think of this!

anyway, suitable series to replace kzgs are rubycon mbz/mcz which can be acquired from the bcn store. nichicon hn/hm, panasonic FJ/FL, sanyo/suncon wg.

i also notice osts near the agp slot and usb ports/headers. those have to go as well as they are silent killers. they fail without bulging or visible signs. one of our members, pentium4, also experienced glitchiness in his usb devices when bad caps were used at the usb ports/headers on his board.

[junktv]

Re: Asus P4SD-LA ver 1.06

One problem with these though is they have to be 8mm 9 would touch but would work an di don't think i've seen 9mm caps. hm is one i seen that was close in size and spec of current kzg's.

I guess these are ok? https://www.digikey.com/product-deta...PD6-ND/2428124

There is a couple ost. 2 small under the realtec chip and 2 by agp and 2 by the usb plugs.


The psu is in need also so I can label and list them.

[ChaosLegionnaire]

Re: Asus P4SD-LA ver 1.06

1800uF caps in 8mm diameter are hard to find. with how cramped the vrm output area is with caps side by side, only 8mm diameter caps will fit. they dont make 9mm diameter caps. next closest is 10mm.

btw, the yellow 820uf 2.5v caps seem to be some kind of sanyo hybrid polymer-electrolytic cap. they should be fine.

the HMs are okay but u have to make sure they are 2006 or newer and not very old stock. the HM series has issues with its 2002-2004 datecodes.

if there are no other caps and they are all EOL, the only way is to polymod but im not sure if the board will take kindly to polymodding from what momaka posted in another topic:

there is a more scientific way to check if you can poly-mod an old motherboard. You do this by looking at the output toroids/inductors next to the CPU socket. If they have only a few turns of wire (multiple strands tied together counts as one thick wire), then the CPU voltage regulator (VRM) probably switches at relatively high frequency, and poly-modding the board (and hence dropping the capacitance a bit) should be possible. But if the inductors have only a single strand of wire or two and there are many turns (typically 10 or more), then the CPU VRM probably switches at relatively low frequency, and poly-modding *may not* give you a stable motherboard. Also, be especially careful on old motherboards if you see a DBL494 / TL494 or KA7500 PWM controller close to the CPU. Those controllers typically indicate that you may be dealing with a very old CPU regulator design using very low switch frequency (again, relatively speaking), and again poly-modding *may not* work well.

the coils by the mosfets on your board seem to have around 8-10 turns. polymodding may be a risky move.

u also have another 2 osts behind the lan/usb ports at the io panel or is it by the southbridge at the two white usb headers? not sure which usb plugs u referring to? the ones by the io back panel or additional onboard ones by the southbridge.

please create a separate topic in the power supply subforum for the psu tho since this is the mobo subforum. tho u can post the link u made for the psu here for conveniece sake.

[Wester547]

Re: Asus P4SD-LA ver 1.06

I'd guess the royal navy blue / gold striped KZGs use lead free PVC as their sleeve material. The brown sleeves are probably PET. Purely black sleeved KZGs probably use polyolefin (NCC only offer their polyolefin sleeves in black - here is my source for that, bottom of page two) if you should ever find such a KZG.

btw, the yellow 820uf 2.5v caps seem to be some kind of sanyo hybrid polymer-electrolytic cap. they should be fine.

Those are Fujitsu polymers (but since Suncon listed Fujitsu as one of their customers, I'm wondering if they supplied Fujitsu with those older cans) rather than Suncon (the company and subsidiary Sanyo contracted to build lytics for them before 2009 when Sanyo exited that business). There's no evidence to suggest that they are hybrids despite what PCBONEZ and some other members might have argued. Correlation does not corroborate causation. Willawake and kc8adu tore some apart ages ago to find they were completely dry inside, not damp or wet in any sense of the word. I would guess they had the vent stamps (newer Fujitsus, or FPCAPs, which Nichicon acquired since 2009, don't have vent stamps or sleeves) as a precaution so they don't explode when they fail as they could potentially evaporate the ingress of moisture (through the rubber bung) to steam which could create enough pressure to cause them to blow. Perhaps a fault in the native oxide barrier or secondary dielectric could ignite as the result of a carbon compound which could also give rise to a toxic gas (although this is not to be confused with hydrogen gas), hence the vent stamp. It's not unheard of for polymers to randomly become a short circuit and fail because they don't have a self-healing mechanism the way liquid electrolytics do. Sometimes when they blow, they can REALLY go with a BANG.

Hybrid polymers do exist (Sunon, Panasonic, Rubycon, and some other companies produce them), but their datasheets expressly call them that (those older Fujitsu polymer datasheets never deemed them hybrids, just solid functional conductive polymers, and they stressed that they do not use electrolytic fluids). I'm pretty sure some folks here have successfully polymodded the CPU VRM area of the P4SD-LA series boards before without issue. I would recommend doing so because the VRM FETs run VERY hot in that section of the board because of the undersized copper pads. Even MCZs will blow there. Only FLs will "brave the heat" (as far as lytics go in the VRM output)...

[Per Hansson]

Re: Asus P4SD-LA ver 1.06

Regarding that quote from momaka that may well be.
But considering how many successful polymods I've seen on this board I don't know if I ever saw a failed one?
Here's a good example, look who replied at the end
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=26064

[junktv]

Re: Asus P4SD-LA ver 1.06

When looking I seen someone here had poly modded several P4sd boards but they were different. I think it might have been momaka. I'm not going to lie half the stuff yall say is over my head but i'm ok with my hands so soldering is easy.

The board works and is long in the tooth so if i get another year out of it i'm fine. They psu is the reason I took it apart. I have a spare 939 athlon 64 4200 x2 and a couple 775 2.8 p4's that i'm thinking open up ddr2 and pcie. I have bigger ddr2 ram and have better video cards for pcie than agp. I'd just have to find boards.

I labeled the ost caps. The rest are rubycon or nichicon.

I should have used a bigger font. Sorry

[junktv]

Re: Asus P4SD-LA ver 1.06

Do the caps look like good replacements? The HZ is the only one in stock with the ripple higher than the rlx.

[momaka]

Re: Asus P4SD-LA ver 1.06

Regarding that quote from momaka that may well be.
But considering how many successful polymods I've seen on this board I don't know if I ever saw a failed one?
Here's a good example, look who replied at the end
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=26064

Yup, the P4SD and its cousins do quite well with a poly-mod indeed.

Do the caps look like good replacements? The HZ is the only one in stock with the ripple higher than the rlx.

Yes, the list you have is fine. Panasonic FR is a really good choice for misc caps scattered on the board, since FR is a long life series.

That said, poly-mods work very well on this board, so if you want, you can do the caps around the CPU with polymers. It wouldn't be that much more expensive either.

For example, for the 1800 uF Chemicon KZG caps around the CPU, you could use these polymer caps instead (that is, if you don't mind the slightly higher price of 47 cents a piece if you buy 10 of them poly caps):
RR70E821MDN1
http://www.digikey.com/product-detai...699-ND/2207235

And for the big 3300 uF OST RLX, you can use this polymer:
RNU0J152MDN1PH
http://www.digikey.com/product-detai...2-1-ND/3768614

As for the small 16V 100 uF OST RLG, you can use these electrolytic replacements:
16YXG100MEFC5X11
http://www.digikey.com/product-detai...135-ND/3134093
16ZLH100MEFC5X11
http://www.digikey.com/product-detai...148-ND/3134106

[junktv]

Re: Asus P4SD-LA ver 1.06

That poly mod stuff confuses me. Don't see how you can use completely different spec'd caps. I figure hm are on my super stable gigabyte board so should be good for this asus.

Think i should even bother with the 100uf's?

[momaka]

Re: Asus P4SD-LA ver 1.06

That poly mod stuff confuses me. Don't see how you can use completely different spec'd caps.

Because many of the voltage-regulating circuits on this board are designed in such way, that they care more about the ESR/impedance of the caps. The solid caps I pointed to have very low ESR, so will work fine. In fact, I think the Nichicon RR7s in the links above is exactly what I used for my first P4SD polymod.

I also have a motherboard from an old Gateway PC that has no electrolytic caps at all. Everything is done with ceramic and tantalum caps. The total capacitance for the CPU filter output is very small, but because of the low ESR nature of ceramic and tantalum caps, the motherboard works just fine. This PC is still serving me today as a secondary file store server.

Think i should even bother with the 100uf's?

Perhaps just the three to the left if the Northbrdige. But it's not really something to stress over too much if you skip them.
For one motherboard, I sometimes do change them. But when working on a batch of motherboard (like I did with the P4SD motherboards above), I just skip them on some of the PCs.

[junktv]

Re: Asus P4SD-LA ver 1.06

Ok I guess i'll go ahead and and replace the 7 100uf caps. I stuck with FR for the 3 since I had picked those on the other RLG. Or should I switch to YXG on all of them? The 4 RMH I just picked a low profile ML.

Does this look right?

[momaka]

Re: Asus P4SD-LA ver 1.06

Those low profile RMH caps are probably audio signal coupling caps for headphone jack, so I wouldn't even worry about them. Most motherboards typically place them in series with 10-100 Ohm resistors, so ESR doesn't even matter.

[junktv]

Re: Asus P4SD-LA ver 1.06

The FR are for the 3 by the north bridge that you suggested YXG in post 10. I just figured since i used FR for the rest of the rlg i would stick with them.

The 4 RMH are scattered around the board. 2 by middle pci slot,1 by the agp slot and one up by the ram and fan plug. These are the ones I got ML for.

[momaka]

Re: Asus P4SD-LA ver 1.06

The FR are for the 3 by the north bridge that you suggested YXG in post 10. I just figured since i used FR for the rest of the rlg i would stick with them.

Yes, FR is fine too.
I suggested YXG simply because I sorted my digikey results by price, and YXG came out as the cheapest. (Yes, I can be a penny-pinching cheapskate sometimes ).

The 4 RMH are scattered around the board. 2 by middle pci slot,1 by the agp slot and one up by the ram and fan plug. These are the ones I got ML for.

The ones close to the fans and RAM are just general filter - again, ESR hardly matter there. So go for whatever you had in mind already.

[junktv]

Re: Asus P4SD-LA ver 1.06

When i totaled this I thought why not buy a new psu. Then i thought this is 2 and a motherboard with a parallel port. I'm cheap also.

Here are the 100uf's. Made the RLG yellow boxed. The RMH are red boxed. Thinking lan chip for 2 of the RMH.

[junktv]

Re: Asus P4SD-LA ver 1.06

Well I only put the 7 hm by the cpu in so far and tried it with the recapped power supply. It booted up then had a graphics glitch at log in so force restarted. Well after that it would freeze at bios. Made sure everything was seated and plugged in and jiggled a few things and it's been up a few hours now with no issues.

[momaka]

Re: Asus P4SD-LA ver 1.06

Well I only put the 7 hm by the cpu in so far and tried it with the recapped power supply. It booted up then had a graphics glitch at log in so force restarted. Well after that it would freeze at bios. Made sure everything was seated and plugged in and jiggled a few things and it's been up a few hours now with no issues.

Nice, good to hear you got it recapped!
I guess the board had to give you a bit of a scare with the freezing and whatnot, lol. I myself had a moment like that last week with an ECS motherboard from a Gateway PC. After taking out the RAM and putting it all back in, it works great again. This is the second of third time it does that now.

Anyways, don't get lazy with the recaps like I do , and try to finish the rest of the board as you have all of the caps anyways.

[junktv]

Re: Asus P4SD-LA ver 1.06

Since then it's had a hang. Another boot issue when it hits grub error. I may slap another drive of un known condition in it and see if it still does it.

My soldering iron is old and cheap. No matter if i used a new tip or one i ground and tinned it wanted to pull it off. That's why i wanted to check it.

Then add a 2.8 p4 running at 50C seems hot for a intel. Dropped a few with the side cover off.


I'm shocked it works. Thanks guys.

Oh yeah that is another thing i may have forgot to wash the ram. I'm a smoker so everything gets nasty.