bad flash corrupted bios

[JorgeHernan]

Flash went bad and killed the mobo.The boot block is corrupted too.The big problem is this is a soldered plcc eeprom.I do not have any smd hot air stations.Is there any way of reflashing this eeprom without unsoldering it.Thanks in advance

[starfury1]

Re: bad flash corrupted bios

probably the worse nightmare to have when flashing.

I don't know if there is anyway to actually Flash one while its still on an MB.

if you can get the same type of chip with the BIOS programmed already you may be able to just cut the legs and remove the chip then remove legs of the pads ...more like micro surgery.
(that would depend on the type of chip package thought)

Another possibility is (depending you) maybe able to remove it and fit a socket (think its PLCC)

I have read of flowing all pins with solder then keeping the solder molten lifting each side ...never tried it (and probably never will)
me thinks its more liable to Damage the PCB to be honest.

There are attachments you can get for irons (depending) that will flow all sides.
Allowing removal, how well these work not idea and guess the attachment wont be that cheap either (you will need an iron that caters for this)

Maybe some of the forum members have had better experience with this.

I know there are a few pages out there on the net about this type of stuff just couldn't locate a decent one quickly

Good luck with that one.

hope its of some help anyway

Cheers

[JorgeHernan]

Re: bad flash corrupted bios

[QUOTE=starfury1]probably the worse nightmare to have when flashing.

I don't know if there is anyway to actually Flash one while its still on an MB.

if you can get the same type of chip with the BIOS programmed already you may be able to just cut the legs and remove the chip then remove legs of the pads ...more like micro surgery.
(that would depend on the type of chip package thought)

Another possibility is (depending you) maybe able to remove it and fit a socket (think its PLCC)

I have read of flowing all pins with solder then keeping the solder molten lifting each side ...never tried it (and probably never will)
me thinks its more liable to Damage the PCB to be honest.

There are attachments you can get for irons (depending) that will flow all sides.
Allowing removal, how well these work not idea and guess the attachment wont be that cheap either (you will need an iron that caters for this)

Maybe some of the forum members have had better experience with this.

I know there are a few pages out there on the net about this type of stuff just couldn't locate a decent one quickly

Good luck with that one.

hope its of some help anyway

Cheers [/QUOT
I have bought a hot air gun yesterday.

[kikkoman]

Re: bad flash corrupted bios

If you use a regular hot air gun (with a relatively large nozzle), you should mask the board with aluminium foil and kapton tape to prevent damage to other components.

[JorgeHernan]

Re: bad flash corrupted bios

If you use a regular hot air gun (with a relatively large nozzle), you should mask the board with aluminium foil and kapton tape to prevent damage to other components.

Ok.I just bought an used Weller hot air gun yesterday.Now it's time to buy the right nozzle.Once i get the plcc chip off the board i will solder a PLCC socket.I'll keep you posted.Thanks

[Harvey]

Re: bad flash corrupted bios

Bios PLCC's can be removed quite easily with a medium-sized nozzle (single hole about 1/4inch diameter), using this technique http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=AxYhF6...eature=related (easier to show how its done that try and explain!).

[starfury1]

Re: bad flash corrupted bios

true Harvey...A lot easier

JorgeHernan yes keep us posted
I didn't get back to this one...sometimes the get lost and I forget...

I have never used one so no real idea...times I wish Id have had one thought...good luck hope you practiced on some junk first...

Cheers

[gonzo0815]

Re: bad flash corrupted bios

You can solder two PLCC socket`s together, so you can put one over the soldered chip, and into the other you can put in a reprogrammed chip.
After booting the system up with a DOS BIOS flashing tool, remove the adapter and flash the on board chip again.

ECS support has provided such a kit for people with this kind of problem.

[Harvey]

Re: bad flash corrupted bios

You can solder two PLCC socket`s together, so you can put one over the soldered chip, and into the other you can put in a reprogrammed chip.
After booting the system up with a DOS BIOS flashing tool, remove the adapter and flash the on board chip again.

ECS support has provided such a kit for people with this kind of problem.

[kikkoman]

Re: bad flash corrupted bios

It's two PLCC sockets soldered together with their butts.
ECS calls it "top-hat flash", because that's how it works.

http://www.3dnews.ru/documents/10839/inbox7.jpg

you need a working spare chip, of course.

[starfury1]

Re: bad flash corrupted bios

So If I get what you saying here is,
You basically parallel 1 working 1 nonworking bios chip together
get to the Dos flash program (usually of a floppy) from the working BIOS
then while hot, live... ON
Remove the piggyback working BIOS, (well the socket setup)
Reflash the corrupted BIOS chip. from the Dos flash tool
(as in the program on the floppy (possibly USB)

Interesting, when you think about it the BIOS would have to be non functional while being flashed...makes sense

(Bad flash does not mean chips destroyed, I know its just how do you re flash it.)

So is that the procedure....?

Cheers

[kikkoman]

Re: bad flash corrupted bios

So If I get what you saying here is,
You basically parallel 1 working 1 nonworking bios chip together
get to the Dos flash program (usually of a floppy) from the working BIOS
then while hot, live... ON
Remove the piggyback working BIOS, (well the socket setup)
Reflash the corrupted BIOS chip. from the Dos flash tool
(as in the program on the floppy (possibly USB)

Interesting, when you think about it the BIOS would have to be non functional while being flashed...makes sense

(Bad flash does not mean chips destroyed, I know its just how do you re flash it.)

So is that the procedure....?

Cheers

Exactly.

"piggyback", that's the word I was looking for.

I can't say anything about other brands, but it works fine on ECS boards.

[Paul S]

Re: bad flash corrupted bios

WOW! I never would have though of that.

I found some how-to's on this subject. They are for a tivo, but I think that the method is the same.

[Paul S]

Re: bad flash corrupted bios

I was looking for a place to get PLCC sockets, when I came across this supplier in the Digi-Key catalog. ASSMANN!

I just had to share it with you guys.

[starfury1]

Re: bad flash corrupted bios

Thanks, kikkoman PaulS U2 gonzo

Guess that explains it Harvey

So there is hope JorgeHernan, you could get away with it without having to remove it

may last programming exp was 24 and 28 pin eproms
I do vaguely remember something about putting clips on chips while on the PCB.
(but never really looked into it)

I can see the the point of soldering in a BIOS but sometimes a socket is a better Idea
on the whole
The thing with BIOS (esp if soldered)...
do it when you have too and then from a DOS type Level flash PRGM

Generally speaking
Apparently those windows type flash upgrades have been known to corrupt many MB's BIOS chip
(some have no issues but there a fair chance you will be RMA'ng the MB if you can)

Cheers

[davmax]

Re: bad flash corrupted bios

Starfury. What are these Windows flash upgrades? I do not recall any. Bios upgrades yes. Please sort me out.

[zandrax]

Re: bad flash corrupted bios

Starfury. What are these Windows flash upgrades? I do not recall any. Bios upgrades yes. Please sort me out.

He means bios flashers for Windows, which sometimes don't recognize the eeprom or corrupt the bios.

Zandrax

[gonzo0815]

Re: bad flash corrupted bios

Yep, my choice when flashing is a clean DOS boot disk.
Windows flash tools are in many cases too unreliable. I am still feeling uncomfortable, when flashing with them.

Any way, with a socket, it is not that expensive to get a new programmed chip. last time i needed one, i have paid about 14€.

[starfury1]

Re: bad flash corrupted bios

yeah thats it
Gigabyte have (or maybe had) a flash program to upgrade the bios online and via windows and Asus have one too its known to stuff the BIOS the asus one
(might be older version)

http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/FileList/...ech_a_bios.htm

http://www.softpedia.com/get/Tweak/S...-Utility.shtml

I recommend you DON'T use any of them.

I have used them once I think it was but my MB does have "Daul Bios" so I can bail out if it stuffs up (forgotten how it all works now) so I took the risk

But on a single BIOS MB and there is no safety net, not worth the risk I think.

its risky enough with Dos based one without having widows possibly doing a zillion things while you flashing a BIOS

Same goes for flashing burners....I have noticed some of the software now comes with a crippled (or some what trial) Nero and a flash utility for the DVD burmer
There are a few DVD burners that are paper weights now out there cause of people flashing left right and centre.

it might be a bit safer these days but do some research before flashing like with one burner it had to be on the right IDE port and set as master...

Flash when you have to, not cause you can

Like I said maybe thing have changed it would be nice if they do have fail safe mode to fall back on from a bad flash (like dual bios) but I don't think they do

DVD flashing is required perhaps a bit more cause new routines are written for media etc...but still I think they are not fool proof with flashing so the risk is there if it drops it bundle for any reason...I could be wrong here but I don't recall reading anything that said other wise

Thats just my opinion thought

Cheers

[gdement]

Re: bad flash corrupted bios

Sigh... I like the old boards with a nice big DIP socket. As if PLCC's weren't annoying enough, now they don't even put a socket on them anymore. I still don't see the logic in soldering those things directly to the board - those sockets in quantity are worth just a few cents, and save lots of labor when it comes time to repair a bad flash.